If your goal is to gain Velocity; shouldn’t you throw your Bullpens at 100?
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Exactly.
I teach that on off day bullpen work that a player should work their locations at cruising speed (what they normally pitch at) and at some time before they peak (energy-wise) they should try throwing a little harder- to actually work on building arm strength and velocity.
I teach that on off day bullpen work that a player should work their locations at cruising speed (what they normally pitch at) and at some time before they peak (energy-wise) they should try throwing a little harder- to actually work on building arm strength and velocity.
Throwing an entire bullpen at full effort would be counter productive. The mechanics would be pretty far off most of the time and you'd get little benefit. It is much better to work into it and get your mechanics and location dialed in before trying to throw a few (10 or so?) max effort pitches, while trying to maintain good mechanics to the degree possible, to work on building velocity. BTW, just trying to throw hard without any feedback from a radar gun will generally have little benefit. A lot of times when you try to throw harder the opposite happens so you need the feedback to see what really helps you throw a bit faster and if you can find a way to repeat it. JMO. BTW, if you can throw your bullpens at 100 mph you don't need to gain velocity. ( 
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CADad said it best.
Bullpen sessions are not the time to work on velocity. This would be very counter productive. Bullpen sessions are for working location, command, working on off speed pitches, etc.. I tell my guys to work there pens at 80-90%. No one cares if you can pump it up in the pen. Master your mechanics in the pen, find a sound repeatable delivery. The velocity will come.
quote:Originally posted by NIC15:
Bullpen sessions are not the time to work on velocity.
ummm... when do you work on velocity?
Let me re state... Bullpen sessions, velocity is the last thing you should be worrying about. Main priority is commanding your pitches, hitting spots, working on location, then you can worry about velocity. What good is velocity if you have bad mechanics, and can not locate pitches? There are PLENTY of places to work on velocity. Velocity comes from mechanics, generating arm speed, and arm strength. Now do you think the bullpen is the only place to build on these things? I dont think so..
On the contrary, maximum velocity is achieved through improved mechanics. If a player is using some kind of feedback (radar), then using the bullpen for velocity can be very useful.
This assumes the player is mature enough to be able to assess/correct.
This assumes the player is mature enough to be able to assess/correct.
Everyone has an opinion so here is mine. When you go to the bullpen your working on what you want to achieve when you actually pitch in a game. If your bullpen work is something totally different than what you want to achieve when you toe the rubber in a game how does that assist you?
How does throwing 80% for example in the pen transfer over to the hill in a game situation? Unless your going to throw 80% when you toe the rubber in a game situation. Your working on your change up in the pen at 80% effort. Now you get in the game and unless your going to throw the change with the same effort you used in the pen whats the point?
IMO the pen should be thrown like a game. Same mechanics , same mental focus , same effort as a game. If not how does it carry over to the field? Your main priority when you are pitching in a game is to pitch with your best mechanics , your best stuff. Your main priority when your throwing a pen is to pitch with your best mechanics , your best stuff and use that as prep for your goal of transfering that to the game mound.
Kid gets in the pen and spots up everything with all his pitches. He is throwing with an amount of effort that allows him to do that. Now he gets in the game and he is trying to spot up everything using a different amount of effort. No. Whatever effort that allows you pitch at your top ability is the effort you can pitch at. So that is the same effort your pen's should be thrown at and your game pitches should be thrown at. And there is no reason a kid can not use the same effort in the pen he uses on the hill in a game. Unless he wants to have two different abilities.
If your going goal is to bring your best stuff to the mound with you in a game then bring your best stuff to the bull pen mound and learn. Otherwise the bull pen does nothing but build false confidence in your abilities as a pitcher.
How does throwing 80% for example in the pen transfer over to the hill in a game situation? Unless your going to throw 80% when you toe the rubber in a game situation. Your working on your change up in the pen at 80% effort. Now you get in the game and unless your going to throw the change with the same effort you used in the pen whats the point?
IMO the pen should be thrown like a game. Same mechanics , same mental focus , same effort as a game. If not how does it carry over to the field? Your main priority when you are pitching in a game is to pitch with your best mechanics , your best stuff. Your main priority when your throwing a pen is to pitch with your best mechanics , your best stuff and use that as prep for your goal of transfering that to the game mound.
Kid gets in the pen and spots up everything with all his pitches. He is throwing with an amount of effort that allows him to do that. Now he gets in the game and he is trying to spot up everything using a different amount of effort. No. Whatever effort that allows you pitch at your top ability is the effort you can pitch at. So that is the same effort your pen's should be thrown at and your game pitches should be thrown at. And there is no reason a kid can not use the same effort in the pen he uses on the hill in a game. Unless he wants to have two different abilities.
If your going goal is to bring your best stuff to the mound with you in a game then bring your best stuff to the bull pen mound and learn. Otherwise the bull pen does nothing but build false confidence in your abilities as a pitcher.
quote:And there is no reason a kid can not use the same effort in the pen he uses on the hill in a game. Unless he wants to have two different abilities.
One of the things that pitchers do in a pen is throw at a lower velocity where they can work on repeating their mechanics. Ideally, this will eventually lead to throwing well at a higher velocity due to the ability to repeat their mechanics. I've seen two HS pitchers who topped out at about 89. One worked 85-86 and was effective. The other worked 87-88 and was effective. Both are now decent D1 pitchers. There's also more than one purpose for a pen. Some pens are purely for long term development. Some pens are primarily to get ready for the next game. If a pitcher is getting ready for the next game and doesn't have a specific glitch to work out then I'd want them to try to work into being able to throw at game speed and location for the bulk of the pen.
Many kids cannot throw as hard in the pen as they do in a game. Many kids throw harder in a game than they should and should throw at the speeds they've established they can throw well at in the pen. High school can be a bit different because many of the harder throwing pitchers can be more effective throwing just enough strikes in the mid to upper 80s than throwing a lot of strikes with not much location in the low to mid 80s. If they can throw with good location in the low to mid 80s then that would probably work better, but I've seen very few HS pitchers who can really do that. Depends on the competition level they are facing. In other words every pitcher is different and their pens should not be a cookie cutter affair.
IMO, working on velocity is an add-on to a pen and not the primary purpose of a pen. I do agree that there are a lot of other ways to work on velocity, but if you've got a pitcher who needs to focus on pens then adding a few max velocity tosses to some of his pens may be more effective than trading pens for a max effort throwing session.
IMO, the key to effective bullpens is to have a purpose and a plan for each and every bullpen. Sometimes the plan has to a change a bit to accomodate what a pitcher brings that day but it is still good to have a plan going in.
Good post.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
Everyone has an opinion so here is mine. When you go to the bullpen your working on what you want to achieve when you actually pitch in a game. If your bullpen work is something totally different than what you want to achieve when you toe the rubber in a game how does that assist you?
How does throwing 80% for example in the pen transfer over to the hill in a game situation? Unless your going to throw 80% when you toe the rubber in a game situation. Your working on your change up in the pen at 80% effort. Now you get in the game and unless your going to throw the change with the same effort you used in the pen whats the point?
IMO the pen should be thrown like a game. Same mechanics , same mental focus , same effort as a game. If not how does it carry over to the field? Your main priority when you are pitching in a game is to pitch with your best mechanics , your best stuff. Your main priority when your throwing a pen is to pitch with your best mechanics , your best stuff and use that as prep for your goal of transfering that to the game mound.
Kid gets in the pen and spots up everything with all his pitches. He is throwing with an amount of effort that allows him to do that. Now he gets in the game and he is trying to spot up everything using a different amount of effort. No. Whatever effort that allows you pitch at your top ability is the effort you can pitch at. So that is the same effort your pen's should be thrown at and your game pitches should be thrown at. And there is no reason a kid can not use the same effort in the pen he uses on the hill in a game. Unless he wants to have two different abilities.
If your going goal is to bring your best stuff to the mound with you in a game then bring your best stuff to the bull pen mound and learn. Otherwise the bull pen does nothing but build false confidence in your abilities as a pitcher.
You make some very good points. The only debate I have would be is that when you toe the rubber in the game, you are typically not going to throw every pitch with max effort or 100%. If you are say 92 tops, but work well at 88-89 spotting the ball in the zone, typically that is what you will do. With 2 strikes on a batter reach back and put a little something extra on it of course. That is what I have always told my pitchers, pitch to contact and then with 2 strikes try to make the batter miss with your best fastball, or an off speed pitch low and away, or something down.
You do however make alot of great points. Like I said this is just my opinion.
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
IMO, the key to effective bullpens is to have a purpose and a plan for each and every bullpen. Sometimes the plan has to a change a bit to accomodate what a pitcher brings that day but it is still good to have a plan going in.
Great post all around CADad, but this line summarizes everything. I believe if a kids mechanics are fine at the time, you should throw your bullpens with full or near full effort, working on a particular pitch or trying to figure out release point to increase command. However, if something in a kids delivery needs tweaking, I find it very hard to work on that tweak at full effort.
It is my opinion - and I am no guru - that sometimes you need to work, at least for a while at maybe 70-75% effort focusing on that one particular piece of the mechanic to try and get some muscle memory back. For instance, if a kid is straightening his front leg too early in the delivery, he should do a bullpen at least starting at 70-75% concentrating on keeping the front leg bent. If he is going 90-100%, it is very hard to do that.
In a game, a pitcher should not be focusing on any mechanic in particular. At least part of what a bullpen is for is to practice repeatable mechanics so when game time and 95-100% comes around, the mechanics are ingrained and no thought is required.
Bottom line is, I think there are times when 100% is OK, but there are also times when a pitcher needs to dial it down to make sure they are getting their mechanics right. Like CADad said, go into the bullpen with a plan.
When I talk about 100% effort what I am talking about is throwing the pen with the same effort you will "pitch" at. We all know that kids will pitch at a certain effort level and will have max ability they can dial it up to in certain situations etc.
The last few posts imo have been oustanding and I enjoyed reading them. Thanks
The last few posts imo have been oustanding and I enjoyed reading them. Thanks
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
When I talk about 100% effort what I am talking about is throwing the pen with the same effort you will "pitch" at. We all know that kids will pitch at a certain effort level and will have max ability they can dial it up to in certain situations etc.
The last few posts imo have been oustanding and I enjoyed reading them. Thanks
Sorry CoachMay, I misread your post. You are exactly right. These last post have been great, and very informative
From my experience as a reliever, the only time I would throw a bullpen at 100% would be before the season. I would build my arm strength up slowly throughout the off season and as the season got closer I would have a few bullpens at 100%. During the season, I never threw a pen close to 100%. When I did gain velocity, it was because my arm was getting stronger from pitching in the games, not what I did in the pen. During the season, you should be trying to maintain. Getting on the bump on off days is a good way to feel your release point, stretch out your arm, and just get a little work in.
Crank
Mustard,
Depending on your biological age?
Your goal should be to gain command of enough types of pitches to be able to compete against batters from both sides of the plate with 3 pitches that move to the pitchers ball side of the plate and 3 pitches that move to the pitchers glove side of home plate.
All thrown maximally all the time after appropriate warm-up. Sports training should match it's mechanics. Velocity will take care of itself if you are throwing maximally, you can only throw as fast as you can at any given point depending where you are with your training and your fastball (movement) axis presentation.
Absolutely, this is how you compete! Athletes should train “Sport specifically”!
If you are learning a new skill by performing a motor skill bullpen after performing any motor learning drills and Sport specific resistance training your effort can be diminished but always finish it off with at least 6 pitches of each of the types that you have learned and learning with maximal effort every time and every day if you have non injurious mechanics.
On the game field mound is the absolute best place to work on fast (velocity) twitch recruitment with the ballistic portion of your interval training workout.
If your mechanics do not let you perform well maximally you better start practicing maximally so that they do. Then there will be less possibility for velocity fluctuations.
Mustard,
quote:“If your goal is to gain Velocity”
Depending on your biological age?
Your goal should be to gain command of enough types of pitches to be able to compete against batters from both sides of the plate with 3 pitches that move to the pitchers ball side of the plate and 3 pitches that move to the pitchers glove side of home plate.
All thrown maximally all the time after appropriate warm-up. Sports training should match it's mechanics. Velocity will take care of itself if you are throwing maximally, you can only throw as fast as you can at any given point depending where you are with your training and your fastball (movement) axis presentation.
quote:“shouldn’t you throw your Bullpens at 100?”
Absolutely, this is how you compete! Athletes should train “Sport specifically”!
If you are learning a new skill by performing a motor skill bullpen after performing any motor learning drills and Sport specific resistance training your effort can be diminished but always finish it off with at least 6 pitches of each of the types that you have learned and learning with maximal effort every time and every day if you have non injurious mechanics.
On the game field mound is the absolute best place to work on fast (velocity) twitch recruitment with the ballistic portion of your interval training workout.
If your mechanics do not let you perform well maximally you better start practicing maximally so that they do. Then there will be less possibility for velocity fluctuations.
I want my guys to break a session down into "thirds". I usually don't put a specific number of pitches they have to throw because I think it should depend on how they feel. What we do is give them a range to reach for - example a between start pen would be in the 25 - 40 range. If they feel good then lengthen it out or if they feel like they have accomplished what they need to accomplish then they can stop a little early. If they are not feeling it then they can go longer / shorter depending on what they feel. What I've found out is you got to have guys that are mature and be able to trust. The guy who was my pitching coach did a phenomenal job and my guys were awesome about doing the right thing. This is definately something I really want to put back into place when I get another head coaching job again.
Now as to the "thirds" to me a bullpen has three potential goals to accomplish.
1. Maintain - a between start pen to stay mechanically fresh
2. Fix - a bad habit has been developed and a pen is there to fix the mechanic and get back to good mechanics
3. Learn - trying to learn a new pitch or change mechanics drastically
We break each bullpen session into thirds based on the range of pitches being thrown. The first third we want them around 85 - 90% effort to concentrate on the mechanics - accuracy. Make sure everything is moving the way it's supposed to move. The second third is around 90 - 95% and this is when the breaking / off speed pitches start being thrown. The last third is 100% with a few where they turn them loose. Once again all pitches will be thrown while focusing on mechanics and accuracy.
But the last thing we tell them is - overall if you feel good then turn it looose; if you feel bad then do what you need to do in order to help yourself get better. That includes shutting down if need be. No bullpen is better than a bad one. There is always tomorrow.
Now as to the "thirds" to me a bullpen has three potential goals to accomplish.
1. Maintain - a between start pen to stay mechanically fresh
2. Fix - a bad habit has been developed and a pen is there to fix the mechanic and get back to good mechanics
3. Learn - trying to learn a new pitch or change mechanics drastically
We break each bullpen session into thirds based on the range of pitches being thrown. The first third we want them around 85 - 90% effort to concentrate on the mechanics - accuracy. Make sure everything is moving the way it's supposed to move. The second third is around 90 - 95% and this is when the breaking / off speed pitches start being thrown. The last third is 100% with a few where they turn them loose. Once again all pitches will be thrown while focusing on mechanics and accuracy.
But the last thing we tell them is - overall if you feel good then turn it looose; if you feel bad then do what you need to do in order to help yourself get better. That includes shutting down if need be. No bullpen is better than a bad one. There is always tomorrow.
