Mechanics - Mark Prior

Beezer,
JMO, but there's no such thing as perfect mechanics. I think Prior does a lot of things well, but he's a bit too linear toward the plate. About the only thing that worries me, (nothing I lost sleep over )about Prior's mechanics is that he stays closed too well if anything. I doubt very much that his injuries are particularly mechanics related but there's no way to prove that any more than there's a way to prove they are. My guess, and that's all it is, is that he's just somewhat injury prone and was overused a bit. On the other hand with Kerry Wood and even before he was injured he just looked like someone who was going to have arm problems. Nothing scientific about that, just a feeling.

I'd also guess that any scout would salivate at the prospect of signing a Mark Prior clone coming out of college.

CADad, that's about the best assessment of Prior that I have ever read. Unfortunately, despite the fact that there is no way to prove the cause of Prior's injuries, there are lots of know-it-alls that think they know exactly why Prior got hurt.

Beezer, I believe the "perfect mechanics" claim is credited to Tom House who was Prior's pitching coach for part of his career (though not at USC, I believe). No doubt there was an element of marketing to that claim. But we all know better today. Specifically, we know that there isn't one set of mechanics that is perfect for all pitchers. There are certain elements that the top pitchers share but pitchers are not identical in every way. I think the "perfect mechanics" claim is history. It seems that the only people who bring it up any more are those that want to take their jabs at House. Unfortunately, these same people either are not up to date on House's current teachings or they choose to ignore them, IMHO.

You raise a fair question about what was or wasn't said back before Prior was injured. Unfortunately, I don't have insights into that.

Which version is House on now?

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Which version is House on now?

A better one.

The motion above is as close to perfect as you can get. Nice fluid motion. Elbows up and a nice finish.

Pedro, right?

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
The motion above is as close to perfect as you can get. Nice fluid motion. Elbows up and a nice finish.

If elbows up is so important, why don't you see it in the motion of...

- Greg Maddux
- Tom Glavine
- Nolan Ryan
- Randy Johnson
- Roger Clemens

Could it have been his legs that failed Prior ? It appears as though Pedro, while using almost identical upper body action, gets a lot more out of his legs. Nothing that could be proved in a court of law or even a court of public opinion, just my observation.

Here are some frames from a clip of Mark Prior. Let me use these to point out what's unusual in his mechanics, what's different than Greg Maddux, and what IMO is the root cause of his problems.

33.

34.

35.

36.

37.

38.

39.

40.

41.

42.

43.

44.

45.

46.

47.

48.

49.

50.

51.

52.

53.

Some observations...

1. Notice Mark Prior's very pronounced M or Inverted W in frame 40, with his Pitching Arm Side elbows both above and behind his shoulders. Greg Maddux's elbows never get nearly this high.

2. Notice how Mark Prior's shoulders clearly start turning between frames 42 and 43 (watch the Cubs logo on his chest) and before his PAS forearm is vertical. This means that Mark Prior's timing is poor and will increase the force with which and the distance over which his PAS upper arm will externally rotate. This will put a lot of strain on both his elbow and his shoulder. The result is the extreme external rotation (180+ degrees) you see in frame 51.

3. I used to think that the angle of the elbow that you see in frame 47 was bad in and of itself. Then I saw that Greg Maddux also reaches this position. I have since come to believe that the difference is HOW Mark Prior gets to this point (e.g. his arm action).

quote:

2. Notice how Mark Prior's shoulders clearly start turning between frames 42 and 43 (watch the Cubs logo on his chest) and before his PAS forearm is vertical. This means that Mark Prior's timing is poor and will increase the force with which and the distance over which his PAS upper arm will externally rotate.

Maddux's shoulders start opening/rotating with the same timing too....most pros start the front shoulder to open prior to the throwing hand reaching the apex...nothing new.

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3. I used to think that the angle of the elbow that you see in frame 47 was bad in and of itself. Then I saw that Greg Maddux also reaches this position.

....you continue to guess about "bad mechanics". It appears you need many more hours of instructing high velocity throwers to really understand what constitutes acceptable mechanics that allow for throwing hard on a continual basis.

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:
Maddux's shoulders start opening/rotating with the same timing too....most pros start the front shoulder to open prior to the throwing hand reaching the apex...nothing new.

If you actually studied this, you will see that there are tremendous variations in pitchers' timing. This falls under the general topic of problems with rushing. The worse their timing is, the more likely it is that they will have Labrum problems.

I first noticed this pattern with Robb Nen, a guy who had problems with rushing and who had Labrum problems.

You see the same basic pattern in the mechanics of Chris Carpenter.

quote:

Originally posted by thepainguy:

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:
Maddux's shoulders start opening/rotating with the same timing too....most pros start the front shoulder to open prior to the throwing hand reaching the apex...nothing new.

If you actually studied this, you will see that there are tremendous variations in pitchers' timing. This falls under the general topic of problems with rushing. The worse their timing is, the more likely it is that they will have Labrum problems.

I first noticed this pattern with Robb Nen, a guy who had problems with rushing and who had Labrum problems.

You see the same basic pattern in the mechanics of Chris Carpenter.

BWAAHAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

This is too funny.....TPG is actually trying to tell Cap_n what good mechanics look like.

quote:

I first noticed this pattern with Robb Nen, a guy who had problems with rushing and who had Labrum problems.

You cant keep the ball down if you are rushing. Robb Nen's slider may have been the most dominant pitch of his era, a pitch that he kept down for 10 years as a great closer.

-Im not sure that you know what rushing is...because Chris Carpenter dosent rush either. I have a tough time thinking of any post high school kids who have big issues with rushing, let alone big leaguers..

You say a Cy Young award winner and a 300 save closer have rushing issues??? I contend both of these achievements are impossible if you rush out.