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Anyone think this will fly in Texas?

How to hit more runs without failing a drug test
How to hit more runs without failing a drug test

By JIM LITKE, AP Sports Columnist
March 14, 2007

Anybody over 30 can remember the first time they heard bat meet ball with a less-than-satisfying "ping" instead of a hearty "crack!" Apparently some of us haven't gotten over it still.

The latest fight over performance-enhancement in baseball isn't being waged at spring training, and it has nothing to do with HGH. It's taking place in New York, where a bill banning metal bats in high school games is expected to pass the city council by a comfortable margin Wednesday afternoon. If the measure gains traction, it could change baseball forever.
Or not.

New York is a big town, but it's still only one, and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg might yet veto the measure. Beyond that, chances the manufacturers would sue even before the ban takes effect next fall are about as good as Mariano Rivera protecting a ninth-inning lead. And it's been an emotional, expensive debate already.

"And I'm a conservative Republican," said James Oddo, the Staten Island councilman who led the push for the bill. "I hate government intervention."

Oddo understands there are more pressing issues. He's already been clobbered by the tabloids for pursuing a "Nanny-State" agenda. That explained his pause.

"But when the protection of student-athletes is left to people who are in bed with the metal bat companies," Oddo resumed, "someone has to do something."

When pressed, the councilman acknowledges he has no reliable data on how many kids have been severely injured by drives off metal bats -- beyond the heartbreaking stories witnesses told during hearings -- and no inclination to trust the numbers the industry puts forward. That's because he doesn't much trust the bodies that crunched them -- the NCAA, National Federation of State High Schools and Little League Baseball, among others -- even though he has no hard evidence those organizations are "in bed" with the manufacturers, either.

But Oddo sees sponsorship ties at just about every level, reads the bat ads promising ever-increasing speed and pop, and watches a few games in his district. He's sure his eyes aren't lying, no matter how many times the manufacturers insist the metal bats have been throttled back.

"We make them to specifications the associations set," said Jim Darby, a spokesman for Easton Sports, a leading bat maker. "The NCAA, Little League, the high school federation -- the groups that that give us our marching orders -- they all keep injury statistics. He offers no data, no science, almost nothing in return. He just accuses them of being wrong. How do you base public policy on that?"

Commissioner Bud Selig sent the council a note offering some of his executives for advice, but Oddo had no luck following up. No surprise there.

The last thing Major League Baseball wants to do is stumble into another performance-enhancement fight. Especially because no one knows what would really happen to the pitchers, let alone the record book, if the best sluggers got their hands on the latest technology. In golf, where that's been the arrangement for years now, the results are decidedly mixed.

Asked whether MLB would ever allow such bats, spokesman Rich Levin referred to an answer given by Selig's predecessor, the late Bart Giamatti, in 1989. "He said as long as there are trees, there will be wooden bats in major league baseball. The policy hasn't changed since."

Technically, he's right, although MLB approved the use of some composite materials in bats in some Class-A leagues five years ago for the same reason colleges and high schools began allowing them in the mid-1970s: to save money. Back then, metal and wood bats performed equally. But as engineers at the bat companies started employing better and stronger alloys, the scale tilted drastically. Metal bats began producing faster line drives, especially dangerous when they were hit back at the pitcher. Batting averages, home runs and scores all soared.

People in the industry point to the 1998 College World Series as the final straw, when Southern California's 21-14 win over Arizona State so embarrassed the NCAA that it appointed a panel to take some of the sting out of the metal bats.

The centerpiece of the new standards the researchers drew up is a measurement called the "ball exit speed ratio (BESR)," which must be low enough so that the ball rebounds off a metal or composite bat at a maximum speed in the mid-90s. That's the same speed a ball hit on the sweet spot of a wood bat would produce, and since the standard was put in place, studies show injury rates are about the same as when only wood bats were used.

In 1992, Little League reported 146 injuries by batted balls. In 2004, after the new standards were in effect, the number was 26. In both instances, the number of players were about 2.6 million and they compiled 160 million at-bats.

"That sounds great to the uninitiated, like saying, 'Oh, we just peeled the onion back,"' Oddo said. "But it's not the reality. Any 15-year-old can tell you that.

"They went from a $50-million-a-year business to $300 million by pushing high-end, high-performance bats, and I had a kid in Staten Island eat a ball a while back. I just don't believe they have the best interests of my constituency at heart."

Jim Litke is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press. Write to him at jlitke@ap.org
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They've got to be kidding about the number of injuries. My kid was injured (shattered jaw)(spring 2005), JA was injured that same year, and I think Wyliedad's kid was injured that same year, all had to have surgery to fix up their faces. Also I remember a kid getting careflighted from an injury. So that's 4 in a span of a couple of months just in the metroplex area. I wonder how they calculated the injuries.
I have got to agree. It is time to get rid of metal bats, I saw what happened to my son. I am not saying that a come backer can not happen with a wood bat but I do believe it would give a pitcher more time to react. A split second more and my son could have gotten the glove on the ball that hit him.
I know my feelings are colored but I do love the game when it is played with wood bats.
Please don't take this wrong, but how can someone say that more kids are hurt by metal bats than wood when metal is all they play with? I am really trying to figure out where the argument comes from.

Isn't it kind of like telling someone not to buy a chevy because there are more of them stolen each year than any other make of car. There are so many more of them out there than any other makes so the numbers are skewed.

I am not for doing anything that adds to the risk of playing ball. I just want to make sure this is an issue of safety they're talking about and not just another group fighting walmart.

quote:
"They went from a $50-million-a-year business to $300 million by pushing high-end, high-performance bats, and I had a kid in Staten Island eat a ball a while back. I just don't believe they have the best interests of my constituency at heart."


Would this kid not have eaten a ball off of a wooden bat hit just as hard in the same situation. We don't know because they are playing with metal.

Again, please don't take any of this the wrong way. I am a parent of a young player and I don;t want to see anyone hurt. I also don't want to lose sight of the forest for the trees.
The exit speed of a wood bat and metal bat may be the same, but (in my understanding) the sweet-spot of a metal is a lot greater. Therefore with a less chance to hit the sweet spot, there's not as much of a chance to hurt someone. This is my general though process on what they are thinking (generally). Being a pitcher, I wouldn't mind it either, but also as a hitter I wouldn't mind it. Most of the hitters today use wood bats all the time in lessons and games when you get into showcases and stuff. For me, I think I would be a MUCH better hitter if I used wood all the time. Not saying my or anyone elses average would be better, but in time I think we could all improve... especially in the long run-when looking at possible futures in the MLB.
Go watch one of the TCL games and see if you think the players can hit the ball with a wood bat like they do in college or high school with a metal bat. Kids are getting bigger earlier and playing more competitive ball. Heck we faced a 14 year old team from East Cobb that had 7 kids over 6 feet with some pitching in the high 80's. High School may be a little safer as not all players will have size and power, but summer ball where all the players can hit - it's scary! I really believe a wood bat would have given my kid an extra second to react. Just wait - you will see an injury and then perhaps change your mind.
My mind is not made up and I am not neccessarily against teh change to wood. I actually think it could be a good thing for reasons other than safety. Some of these have already been mentioned.

I do however think that at younger ages it woudl be almost impossible to build a wooden bat that is both light enough and strong enough to withstand the punishment a kid will put it through. I think there are advantages for younger kids to be able to swing a lighter(not wieghtless) bat that allows them to step up as they progress. My thought is that lighter wooden bats wont hold up and heavier bats are going to be too heavy for many kids to learn properly with. I may be way off, but I'd like to hear some comments.

I have gone over and over the cost thing too. It's not that. For what you pay for a good metal bat you could break all the wood bat you want to. Truth be told I think it's a capitolism argument that has run amuck. We are going to jump into something as a government that makes everyone feel good and can't possibly be seen as a bad idea or else you are against the safety of our kids. This to me seems like a problem that LL or whatever league should be able to fix itself. Devils advocate says move the mounds back.
They dont use them in professional Baseball.. Why?? Because you'd have a lot of dead fans in the stands. Why do you think they have glass around the hockey rink. You all saw what happened to the girl that got hit with a puck.
I was sitting down the first baseline last yr @ a Ranger game and GMJ smoked one right over me and a friends head.. Same guy I was with in the dugout when I got hit in the face
" maybe he's bad luck".. Confused.. Anyway, I can only imagine what would have happened if he was swinging metal..

Get rid of them, and play baseball the way it was meant to be played.. With wood.. JMO
I'm not sure anyone would argue that the game is better with a metal bat. All local injury reports are anecdotal; they're real injuries but it doesn't necessarily mean there are that many more injuries, or that there would be less injury if we used wood. It seems like there would be less but we don't really know for sure. No youth leagues in Texas, that I know of, use wood only. If you want to use wood no one would object so why not start using wood? Why not approach the NON government agencies that regulate play and convince them to change to wood? Why do we immediately look to government to fix an issue like this? I think that's what the original article was about.
Last summer the Texas Blackhawks used wood bats for more than half of the summer...I know I had fun using them...even though a few balls would have been HR's instead of doubles...I'd hit with a wood bat if only my coach would allow it. It's a shame everyone can't agree to just use wood bats, not just for safety reasons, but for the game. This summer was a blast (hidden sarcasm since I use a 'Blast' wood bat) and I look forward to the same gig this next summer.
Last edited by blackhawk32
So, why aren't any AD's or coaches petitioning their district committees to play with wood? Seems like a worthwhile experiment. Certainly, a team that plays with wood during district can pick up metal at playoff time. I think it's sad that this has to be legislated....but that's how today's world works.

There is no doubt though -- the game is a different one with wood.
Defense loves wood, offense loves metal - simplest reason is as stated above - the sweet spot on a wood bat is very small and a miss hit ball either goes no where or breaks the bat, a shot off the handle of a metal bat is a single or more.

I think that the larger sweet spot is why we are concerned about what we see as more injuries.
Last edited by obrady
Dtiger-

I dont think that it is a bad thing, however it would take a different approach from the coach. No longer would you 3-4 hole only be required to punch the gap, but they would need to be able to sac bunt and get guys over, the hit and run would come more into play, and less balls would be hit over the fence.

myself, being both a pitcher and a hitter would like to see the transfer to wood, but I know it would be like a double bladed swoard to me.
quote:
Originally posted by deaconspoint:
Are there wooden bats that are approved for LL play now? Can a guy get a wood bat of the proper size for his kid and let him play with that in whatever league he is playing now or are metal bats the only type that are allowed?


deaconspoint:

Not sure exactly what LL age you've got. However, I believe the only restrictions on bats are concerning the diameter/drop. Check out DBAT's website. They've got youth wood bats with anywhere from a -8 to -12 drop.
Thanks for the information dadofones. I guess I knew they were available, but I can remember once wondering of they were actually allowed. I never really looked deeply into it for reasons I'll explain in a minute. I just never really knew if young kids were allowed to use them in games. I guess another way to pose the question is this. We know they're available, most agree they're safer, most would say they are a better training tool. Why aren't we using them?

I think as concerned parents we should be able to make any changes we see neccessary to protect kids without the help of governing bodies. It really comes down to keeping up with the Jones's or the Johnny's as it were. A parent sees another kid outhitting theirs with a lighter metal bat and jumps on board and the rest is history. I have never seen anyone in the younger age groups playing with one in a game. I would imagine if they did some well meaning parent or coach would quickly step in and make sure the parent of that child knew how much better their child could hit with a lighter, faster, more pleasing metal bat. We did this to ourselves.

By the way, my son is 8, so we're talking about the early stages here. He has a wooden bat, but I honestly never thought of letting him use it in a game. It seems to me like it might be more dangerous than the metal bat he swings now. He's a strong kid and can swing the heavier wood bat at a pretty good pace. No scientific studies or anything, but with the added weight of his wood bat, when he does make solid contact, the ball comes off with what seems like more velocity. He has to swing the metal bat, the wood just comes around and pounds the ball. Probably just my mixed up perception, but I thought I was doing the other kids a favor not letting him use it. He asks all the time if he can.
Last edited by deaconspoint
quote:
Originally posted by 2010DAD:
quote:
Originally posted by En Fuego:
Bring on the 'LUMBER"!!


Yes, when are you coming out with the NEW LUMBER??????


New lumber....just lumber! I played with wood bats and had success as a kid and through high school before the metal technology advanced to where it is today. Nothing better that the "sting" of wood bat in cold! Smile

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