I know a lot of factors go into getting accepted to an IVY school and each institution has different standards. However, Is there a general standard to follow as to whether or not to even bother? Is the minimum 1100, 1200, 1300?
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Upenn is about 1300 minimum, if you are an athlete . 1400 for the rest
jbdad
Each school somewhat does its own thing---you need to talk to each coach and find out what the story is for each school-- some can get players in with lower than the schools normal SAT and others cannot
There is no general rule of thumb
Each school somewhat does its own thing---you need to talk to each coach and find out what the story is for each school-- some can get players in with lower than the schools normal SAT and others cannot
There is no general rule of thumb
The Ivy league uses something called an Academic Index for recruiting...it can be very confusing as it combines sat/gpa/class rank and then uses the total student body mean AI to then structure the academic make-up for athletic teams...it has to balance out...here is something I wrote on it for a past newsletter..............
Does your school use class rankings? It might hurt your Ivy League acceptance chances!
The Ivy League incorporates a system to control the academic quality and quantity of student athletes that are recruited each year. This system is called the Academic Index and every student at the school, not just athletes, is assigned one based on a formula that uses class rank, GPA, and SAT or ACT.
Each Ivy League school generates an average academic index score for the entire student body and uses that score as the center point for recruiting. The statistical variable known as a standard deviation is used as a guide for how much off the school mean a coach can recruit a PSA.
For example, suppose that the mean AI is 200, and the standard deviation is 13. A given team may be able to recruit 1 or 2 players who are up to 1.5 standard deviations below the average (AI of 181-187, 3-5 players who are up to 1 standard deviation away from the norm (AI of 188-199), 2-4 players who are at the norm (200-212) and 1-2 who are above the norm AI (213+). Confused? Wait it gets more complex.
Talent factors into this equation as well. To be in that group which is 1.5 standard deviations away from the norm, you need to be a tremendous talent – an impact player, a player that is being offered by scholarship schools. A coach might recruit you if you are in that second group of 3-5 players, but not in the first group of 1-2 (because you are not a good enough player in his/her mind). Maybe you only need 1 or 2 AI points to move up a group. A 10 point increase on the SAT will get you one point on the AI, this could mean the difference between getting a Likely Letter (basically a promise that you are accepted before you even apply) and not getting in!
What a lot of people don’t realize is that students with high GPA’s in high schools which do not use class rank, typically outscore peers with the same GPA but whose high school uses class rank (because of how the AI formula works). Ivy League coaches, who must recruit in a complex world of Academic Indexes correlated with athletic ability, usually sleep a bit easier when they know a prospect’s school does not use class rank.
Basically, attending a school that does not use class rank can bump you up about 10 AI points across the board. This difference does not just help those who fall outside of the 1.5 standard deviation level, but it also helps those who are within that range, but are not considered talented enough to be recruited by the school unless they are in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th group. It helps everyone.
What am I saying? At this date in time, if you are Ivy League minded, it pays to attend a school that does not use class rank. You can do whatever you want with that information; I am just trying to inform you.
Does your school use class rankings? It might hurt your Ivy League acceptance chances!
The Ivy League incorporates a system to control the academic quality and quantity of student athletes that are recruited each year. This system is called the Academic Index and every student at the school, not just athletes, is assigned one based on a formula that uses class rank, GPA, and SAT or ACT.
Each Ivy League school generates an average academic index score for the entire student body and uses that score as the center point for recruiting. The statistical variable known as a standard deviation is used as a guide for how much off the school mean a coach can recruit a PSA.
For example, suppose that the mean AI is 200, and the standard deviation is 13. A given team may be able to recruit 1 or 2 players who are up to 1.5 standard deviations below the average (AI of 181-187, 3-5 players who are up to 1 standard deviation away from the norm (AI of 188-199), 2-4 players who are at the norm (200-212) and 1-2 who are above the norm AI (213+). Confused? Wait it gets more complex.
Talent factors into this equation as well. To be in that group which is 1.5 standard deviations away from the norm, you need to be a tremendous talent – an impact player, a player that is being offered by scholarship schools. A coach might recruit you if you are in that second group of 3-5 players, but not in the first group of 1-2 (because you are not a good enough player in his/her mind). Maybe you only need 1 or 2 AI points to move up a group. A 10 point increase on the SAT will get you one point on the AI, this could mean the difference between getting a Likely Letter (basically a promise that you are accepted before you even apply) and not getting in!
What a lot of people don’t realize is that students with high GPA’s in high schools which do not use class rank, typically outscore peers with the same GPA but whose high school uses class rank (because of how the AI formula works). Ivy League coaches, who must recruit in a complex world of Academic Indexes correlated with athletic ability, usually sleep a bit easier when they know a prospect’s school does not use class rank.
Basically, attending a school that does not use class rank can bump you up about 10 AI points across the board. This difference does not just help those who fall outside of the 1.5 standard deviation level, but it also helps those who are within that range, but are not considered talented enough to be recruited by the school unless they are in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th group. It helps everyone.
What am I saying? At this date in time, if you are Ivy League minded, it pays to attend a school that does not use class rank. You can do whatever you want with that information; I am just trying to inform you.
Advisor,,, Thanks for the insightful information.
Better yet talk to the coaches at the school(s) you have interest in--- they may have answers that surprise you
1200 seems to be the magic number that can generate interest from Ivy coaches. Our son had an SAT quite a bit higher than this. College coach strongly encouraged son to take SAT again to try and improve his score. As Advisor mentioned above, class rank was very helpful to son's admission index; as was a physics related extra-curricular project.
Another helpful site for info on Ivy admissions: http://www.collegeconfidential.com/
Another helpful site for info on Ivy admissions: http://www.collegeconfidential.com/
If you were wondering what your academic index might be, you can look here.
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index3.htm
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index3.htm
jbddad...My son attends one of the Ivies. He's a freshman.
Happy to talk to you about what I know about requirements and process.
john petrulis
815-469-4520
Can call tonight during the Illinois/MSU basketball game. I'll be home.
Happy to talk to you about what I know about requirements and process.
john petrulis
815-469-4520
Can call tonight during the Illinois/MSU basketball game. I'll be home.
jbddad - the issue of bands I mentioned (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th) really pertains to football and hockey. In baseball the AI does count, but there is no real banding used...as far as I know!
As I think someone mentioned above, you're best talking to the particular school. However, in our experience, 1300 appeared to be the absolute minimum and that was presuming that everything else (grades and otherwise) was in order.
Chris Lincoln wrote a very good book on the intricacies of recruiting in the Ivy League entitled "Playing The Game - Inside Athletic Recruiting In The Ivy League". In his book, he does a pretty good job of explaining the process .... he uses lots of examples pertaining to football, s****r, LaCrosse, Hockey, Basketball but (to my recollection) never specifically mentions baseball; though I have to imagine it does not differ toooo much from the other sports.
As the other posters have said, recruiting in the Ivy league is unique and a bit more involved.
As the other posters have said, recruiting in the Ivy league is unique and a bit more involved.
sircath - I read that book and it does a good job in general of explaining how things work in the Ivies...BTW, the Dartmouth fooball coach was fired...he had a lot to say...maybe he knew it was his last chance to speak his mind
If your the right player it can be done with an sat of 1200 and a weighted GPA of 3.5 and no class rank. This applies to all Ivy's.
Sox....I disagree wholeheartedly.
NOTHING applies to ALL IVIES!
All distinct institutions re admissions standards.
NOTHING applies to ALL IVIES!
All distinct institutions re admissions standards.
BeenthereIL, I 
with your disagreement.
I have been doing a lot of research on this subject. I asked this question of dbg on the Dartmouth website and he was kind enough to respond with a PM. From reading these posts I know your son was a highly recruited athlete (and doing well I see) and had his choice of top schools. I was hoping you might share your experience as to the academic side of the admissions/recruiting process at P-ton? Any insights as to your experience would be greatly appreciated.
with your disagreement.I have been doing a lot of research on this subject. I asked this question of dbg on the Dartmouth website and he was kind enough to respond with a PM. From reading these posts I know your son was a highly recruited athlete (and doing well I see) and had his choice of top schools. I was hoping you might share your experience as to the academic side of the admissions/recruiting process at P-ton? Any insights as to your experience would be greatly appreciated.
Git...Or anyone else for that matter....you may call me at 815-469-4520 and I'll tell you what I know.
john petrulis
john petrulis
Our son was recruited by several Ivy's as a pitcher. 3.7 and 1200 and 90+ seemed to be good enough. harvard, yale, brown and dartmouth. also, was good enough for Duke as they offered him healthy money to go. he opted for another academically competitive ACC school but the Ivys were very tough to pass up as a parent.
Agree glacko...For parents, the lure of the Ivies is unbelievable.
Kids oftentimes "just don't get it".
Kids oftentimes "just don't get it".
I know for a fact that to play football at Harvard their recruiting letter says top 20% of class, SAT 1100, ACT 27. I have this is writing from them.
As it is for most colleges/universities baseball is not treated like football /basketball or womens sports--baseball stands alone
Bags,
Keep in mind, as Tr mentions, football is different than baseball in terms of recruiting. Football has a system known as banding. The lowest band, which are the minimums you mention only allow 2 "impact" players to be accepted with those minimun academics. Baseball players (and the rest of the football team) are held to a much higher standard. See advisor's earlier post.
Keep in mind, as Tr mentions, football is different than baseball in terms of recruiting. Football has a system known as banding. The lowest band, which are the minimums you mention only allow 2 "impact" players to be accepted with those minimun academics. Baseball players (and the rest of the football team) are held to a much higher standard. See advisor's earlier post.