Missing 1st base

I assume the umpire made a call...if so, that is the call. If he asks for help from home plate ump, then they can change the call if they want to. If the 1st base ump did not make a call, then 2 or 3 will apply IF the 1st basemen saw the missed bag and applies #2 or #3.
If no call was made, the ump is waiting for the completion of the play...If the baserunner- batter gets back to the bag before he is tagged or the 1st basemen touches the bag...he is safe.

I believe the base ump is actually supposed to make a safe call in that situation. I believe an appeal is then required to record the out. I believe I'm not absolutely certain on this so I'd like to hear the correct answer. I think the tag of the runner could be considered an appeal. My guess is that pirate fan has the correct answer in his hip pocket based on the terminology he's using.

CADad has it right. The BU should call te runner safe in this situation. The defense has to appeal the runner at this point.

I am not an umpire, but I have been a coach forever......how can any umpire call a runner safe if he hasn't touched the base?

I beleive you would only appeal it if the runner has apparently reached second base already.

Grateful,
Think about this situation: Runner on first, base hit, runner from first misses second and slides into third. A tag is made and the umpire calls the runner safe even though he knows the runner missed second. The other team would have to appeal the missed base.

Same principle applies at first base. The runner reached the base before the ball so the runner is safe and it is up to the defense to appeal a missed base.

Now I've explained it, that doesn't mean I agree with the rule.

CADad....In your scenario the ump is calling the runner safe at 3d not 2nd. An appeal here is appropriate. On the play at first it is up to the ump to make a call particular to 1st base. Until the runner touches the base or/and the 1st baseman makes the force/tag there is no call to make because the play is still live. I think.

#1 is the correct answer....it is an appeal play. Now lets look at #2 and #3. Both those answers are OKAY IF F3 says he missed the bag and the touches the BR while off base or the bag prior to F3 returning to touch.

The fact remains it is an appeal play and therefor the defensvie team must tell you he missed the bag and then take action to put out the runner

The BR is not safe nor is he out.

If the runner misses 1B and the first baseman tages him on the BR's return to the base but before the BR can touch 1B, then the BR can be called out. The act of the first baseman taging the BR before he could touch the base is a live ball appeal by the defense. Had the BR advanced and acquired 2nd, the defense would have to make a live or dead ball appeal.

The base umpire should make no signal whether safe or out until such a play is made. Once the BR has touched the base, then there would be no grounds for appeal - he has reo-touched the base he missed.

On the common sense side, why would you invite the wrath (whether warranted or not) of a coach coming out to yell at you for signaling "safe" then calling the same player out on appeal when you know the runner didn't touch the base? You don't signal anything. Let the defense follow through with its play. If I call him "safe," you'd better save your appeal. It's not happening.

This scenario was brought up in our rules interpetation meeting. As of last year this rule was changed. If the runner goes past first base before the ball is caught by the first baseman, even if he misses the base he is not out. It has to be a dead ball appeal. Thus the runner will be on the base by the time the appeal is made. So he is safe. This is a very dumb rule but that is what was changed in 2004. None of the umpires in that meeting agreed with that new rule.

Looking at the "Appeal Procedures and Guidelines" under ART 8.2.5., that defensive player can still apply the tag while the ball is in play (live ball appeal) - only if the runner has not touched the base upon return.

Thought behind the new mechanic is that by not signaling it was a tip off to the defense that the runner had not touched the base.

The current accepted mechanic is to signal the runner safe and wait for an appeal. How often is this done?...no one can be sure... but it isnt our job to decide what mechanic we are to use when it comes to NFHS rules. We should abide by the mechanic approved. We dont have to agree with it.....but we do have to call it that way....

I for one have had my issues with FED in the past. I hated the fact that in the past we were to call out any baserunner who missed a base without appeal. I felt that was aiding the defense and they should have to notice it and properly appeal..... but for years that was the case.......at least now that has changed....

What I see are two different scenerios.

#1 - No play or late throw to 1st. The ball is late, but the runner still misses the bag. When the play is not close (especially runner reaching before the ball does), there is no signal to give. It is obvious to all that the runner reached/passed the bag before the ball reached. There's no tippoff to the defense or offense. If the defense notices the miss and applies the tag to the base or runner while the ball remains live (appeal), then the runner is gone.

#2 - Close play. Runner misses bag. You call him safe and wait for the appeal? No way. I bang the runner out. The ball is there - 1st basemen is touching the bag. Live ball appeal. Runner goes to the dugout.

In the training I have received, when there is an obvious safe or where the runner reaches well in advance of the ball - there is no need to give any "safe" call. It's the close plays that need the signal ("safe", "out"). It's not a tipoff to anyone when no signal is given.

regardless of whether or not your association follows the accepted mechanic...... you are right to follow the trainings and accepted practices of your association.........

A couple of things:
I agree with PIAA about following your assoc practices. The correct mechanic is to call the runner safe and wait for an appeal. This has to be unmistakable and there is no requirement for it to be dead. The only thing that has changed in the Fed appeal process since they put it back in is the coaches can't appeal live and there no accidental appeals. I'm not sure how the one interpreter got that it had be dead to appeal it because as stated the BR would now be on the base. As one poster thought the F3 touching the bag after the runner has passed is not a live ball appeal, unless he gives some inclination that BR missed.

Just to stir the pot a little I want to add one more complication to the situation. This came up at my preseason clinic and then again at one of my association meetings and basically we ended up with a bunch of respected veterans arguing about what they would do. About half said they would follow the approved interpretation (signal safe and then wait for an appeal) and the other half saying that the approved interp was garbage and would lead to more problems than it solves. (And thus they would make no call at first and wait; if the runner "retouched" first base before F3 tagged the runner or touched the base while in possession of the ball they would rule him safe, otherwise they would rule him out.)

Now the fun part.

1) What if the BR beats the throw to first by a step (but misses first) and F3 catches the ball still in contact with the bag. (Approved ruling says he is safe, and signaled as such, and and since there can be no inadvertant appeals, then a proper appeal must still occur for an out to be recorded.) BUT, what if the BR immediately realizes his mistake and very quickly returns to first. The defensive coach immediately yells at his fielder to tag the runner, but the tag occurs after the BR has retouched the base. A) F3 is in contact with the base from the time he catches the ball until the time he makes the tag, or B)F3 leaves the base after receiving the ball but before attempting the tag of the BR.

2) What if the ball becomes dead? Situation: 2 Outs, R3, R2 ground ball to F5 who looks R3 back to third and then throws late to F3, but after receiving the ball (while in contact with 1st base after the BR has passed, but not touched first), F3 throws home to attempt to retire R3. R3 is safe, but F2 then throws to F5 and retires R2 to end the inning (and making the ball dead). Now a successful appeal would negate the run. What if the defensive coach verbally appeals with the runner standing on: A) first base, B) the first base line 15 ft beyond 1st base, C) on 2nd base after retouching first, or D) on second after failing to ever re-touch first, E) half a step from first and running as hard as he can towards first in an attempt to retouch.

3) What if F2 had seen that he couldn't get R3 out, but HAD seen the BR miss first. As the BR tried to return to first F2 intentionally throws the ball out of play and starts yelling, "He missed first, I'm appealing that the Batter-Runner missed first!" (a far-fetched, but legal dead ball appeal).

All thoughts appreciated.

For those interested:
NFHS Case Book, Page 62, *8.2.3 Situation provides
coverage of this subject. Seems to contradict the accidental/inadvertant appeal rule but it's there.