Missing slow grounder = error

assuming hs
your despription ... "slow gounder to 3b" 3b who is NOT CHARGING sees it roll under his glove

ruling .. infield hit
also runner would have "most likely" beat the throw if one could have been made


jmo, but a good one

Under MLB rules this would most likely be an error.

quote:

10.13 ....NOTE (2) It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through a fielder's legs or a pop fly falls untouched and in the scorer's judgment the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, an error shall be charged.

quote:

Had this happen this year and the score keeper gave it a hit because the ball did not touch the glove.

First and foremost, a fielder does not have to touch the ball to be charged with an error.

If the official scorer judges that the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, an error shall be charged.

Sorry Style,

I guess I was typing when your post went up.

style got the correct rule, but the worng ruling because he failed to visualize the play in question ... get out the stopwatch & slide rule


in MLB a SLOW grounder to the 3B NOT CHARGING would likely be a hit EVERY TIME whether the 3B fielded it cleanly, muffed it, or completly missed it ... as the batter would beat it out with or without the throw ...
an error could be charged if in the scorer's judgment the muff/miss allowed the runner to reach 2B

in MLB a SLOW grounder to the 3B CHARGING AT A FULL SPRINT would also likely be a hit EVERY TIME if the 3B completely misses it ... AND if it were perfectly placed, it could turn into an IF double for the batter


now, to say you'd score it MORE HARSHLY at the HS level or below is very odd, imo

quote:

It was the most routine of play made 100 out 100 times by a half way profcient player. I say it is an error. What do you all say?

Most stat/scoring questions asked of umpires really should be taken with a grain of salt....we do not score baseball games...but it is in the OBR rule book.....but these kind of things are why HS stats are of such little value......

I've said this before and I will repeat it again....I've done games and when they are reported in the paper the next day, I cant believe I was at the same game.....

Ive seen batters creditied for 3-4 when at best they were 1-4....no hitters, saves, wins you name it all subjectively scored......

to me the line above in the post says it all......

its an error.....but then again, as the umpire, its just another baserunner to me......

The original post by gimages states that the ball going through the legs (or not being fielded cleanly) allowed the runner to reach first base safely.

I wasn't there but if the batter-runner reaches because the ball was mishandled, it's an error.

Thanks all for the response. If the 3rd baseman would have fielded the ball he would have thrown out the runner. I brought this question up as we had a player on our JV team had large BA for just this reason that most of his hits were very routine plays that were not made. Acutally had a ball hit to center field - the fielder did not have to move one step - put up his glove - ball missed glove but hit him on the head - no error. We did not play very good teams. I believe the score keeper was doing a good job, but still in little league mode - with his understanding of if the ball dose not hit the glove it is not an error. Personally I would have scored it an error.

I passed our field at lunch & had waay too much time on my hands? ...
we did a crude live re-creation

the fielder was a V soph utility IF/OF who was lining the field & working on a Q-pounder/cheese supersized

the g-balls were hit such that if left alone they'd die just into the OF grass - 3B was even with the bag on the dirt cutout < 10 ft from the foul line, the IF was grass & mowing looked a few days old ... temp 65F overcast, a gentle breeze blowing to RF (5-7 mph?)

3b did NOT charge & took a hop & a step to release (sometimes more as he let the ball come too him)

times
4.2 to 5.0 with most near 4.4/4.6 ... thats a bang-bang play in my book

I'm just having some fun with it & suggest others do as well

also wondering ANY stat's relevance in a league where fly balls bonk OF's on the head, ground balls go thru IF's legs



btw, I have also seen college & MLB guys lose a fly ball in the sky

How about a blooper to baseball's version of the Bermuda Triangle; 3B/SS/LF or 2B/1B/RF or SS/2B/CF. You know the one...it's a blooper right between all 3, all 3 charge to field it then realize the others are there, they look at each other then....the ball hits the grass.

quote:

the IF was grass & mowing looked a few days old ... temp 65F overcast, a gentle breeze blowing to RF (5-7 mph?)

You forgot to record the relative humidity.

quote:

btw, I have also seen college & MLB guys lose a fly ball in the sky

...or in a night game because the moon got in their eyes.

The scorer's question is whether the fly should've been caught with "reasonable effort", which is in the eye of the beholding scorekeeper.

In the "Bermuda triangle" situation, someone ought to get tagged with an error. The player with fly ball priority is really to blame for not taking charge, calling everyone off and going for the ball. SS has priority over 3B, OF over all infielders, etc.

In the case of a ball lost in the sun, a hit might be given, as sometimes the sun is too much for you to expect someone to catch the ball with "reasonable effort". You do take the sun situation into account; you don't treat it as if the sun weren't out. Same with a wind-blown ball, a player whose feet go out from under him on a wet field, and other situations where the player is not really to blame.

whew ... outa breath ... my oops

UV: moderate
Humidity: 62%
Pressure: 29.22 >
Dew point: 49F
Visibility: 10.0 mi

the IF listed @ 5'10", 175.55 # (* the Q-ponder meal wt. addition is approximate)

btw, a FB can be lost in a clear sky w/o the sun factor