Baseball
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I'd guess he caught all the games during the high school season and now doing 10 behind the plate with pitchers that throw from one side of the box to the other in the dirt while all the others "platoon" in the outfield.
Did the thought ever cross your nimble mind that he might just be tired?
Did the thought ever cross your nimble mind that he might just be tired?
He may just have a case of the "this ain't the school year so I don't have to work as hard-itis". I have seen that before. There is so much pressure during the school year with studies, sports and practices. Baseball, while it should have a firm disciplined approach, must be fun as well. Ask him if he's having fun and if he really wants to do this all summer. If he does, then there are certain expectations. There will always be a summer attitude with youth. They often don't get serious until they see their future before their eyes.
FO could be right.
Don't you have more than one catcher?
Don't you have more than one catcher?
While I completely understand that there are many ways to coach young men, Nicholas, I have to say I'm disappointed in your approach. Often times, I see coaches who don't know how to communicate with young players and who resort to the 'marine drill instructor' mode because they don't know what else to do. There are other ways to get more out of your players, if you care to do so, and if it matters to you what type of young men they are when they leave your program. If you want to have them start acting like responsible and mature young adults, it helps to treat them as such. Talk to them as you'd talk to another adult, to an equal. Let them know what is expected and give them the freedom to deliver. If they don't, you have many ways of dealing with it. I use what I consider to be the most effective of all, it's called playing time. If a kid isn't giving a good effort, I don't get mad at him, I just reduce his playing time until he gives the effort that he's capable of giving.
I don't coach HS ball, only summer baseball. I tell the boys straight up that when they get to college, they're going to be expected to do everything on their own without being told by their coaches. Be there on time, get yourself geared up to practice, get out and get warmed up and ready to begin on time without your coaches telling you what to do, and when to do it. That is what college coaches are going to expect, so start learning it now, not later. It's called being responsible and dependable. I also ask the players to be honest with me, and if they have an issue that will affect their play, to communicate and we'll deal with it. It is important for them to know that they can talk to you about problems or issues without being penalized or compromised. You'll find that your players will give you much more effort if they respect you and you inspire them, rather than if they fear you and don't respect you. Respect cannot be demanded, it should be earned. Yes, a certain amount is owed by younger people at the beginning, but you'll decide if it is warranted long term, or not. They DO NOT owe you respect long term if you've shown you're not worthy of it.
Would you want to play for someone who treats their players the way you do? If so, keep on doing it. If not, think about why you're doing it, and how you could do it better. A simple test would be to honestly ask yourself if you treat other adults at work and in social settings the way you treat these boys. If not, why not? Would the other adults tolerate your approach or tell you to stick it? If they'd tell you to stick it, perhaps you should consider treating your players more like adults and expecting them to act more mature on their end. If you think the kids are going to take advantage of you, you've forgotten who is running the show. Give them a chance to get on the same page that you're on. If they don't want to, and have made it clear by their actions that they don't want to be at the level you're seeking, ask them to leave and to find another program that'll better fit what they're looking for.
You say in your initial comments "during the spring season I would have chewed him out during the game." Would you have bothered to ask him why he wasn't showing the energy needed, or would you have just chewed him out without bothering to find out if there was a reason. Perhaps the kid was sick, but playing anyway. Perhaps he got no sleep the night before and had no energy. Perhaps he has a big problem away from the field that is affecting his play on the field. Perhaps he just doesn't give a darn. IF you don't bother to find out the reason behind the sub-standard performance, how can you expect to improve it? Chewing him out isn't going to solve the problem, even if it's nothing more than a bad attitude. Take a kid with a bad attitude and chew him out, and all you're likely to do is make it worse, make him loathe you, lessen the respect you get and you didn't do a darn thing to make anyting better.
I've had kids with problems similar to what you're describing. By talking to them like I would to another adult, I'v often found out the reason and addressed that issue, whatever it was. If it was just laziness, it's as simple as putting them on the bench for a while and letting someone else have their PT. If they want to play, they'll step it up. If they don't really want to play, most often they'll take care of that situation for you.
If you want your players to be the best they can be and give the team everyting they have to offer, they need to be positively coached and led. They'll give you, as well as themselves and teammates, far more if they know you care about them and their success, than if you're viewed as nothing more than a jerk and bully who can act that way because you're the coach and they can't go play somewhere else. If you wouldn't tolerate the guy you see in the mirror talking to you that way, why do you do it?
If you aspire to be the best coach and MENTOR that you can be, most of the rest of the deal will take care of itself. You'll be amazed at the results you can get from these guys if they know you care about them, and about excellence..... and lead by example.
I don't coach HS ball, only summer baseball. I tell the boys straight up that when they get to college, they're going to be expected to do everything on their own without being told by their coaches. Be there on time, get yourself geared up to practice, get out and get warmed up and ready to begin on time without your coaches telling you what to do, and when to do it. That is what college coaches are going to expect, so start learning it now, not later. It's called being responsible and dependable. I also ask the players to be honest with me, and if they have an issue that will affect their play, to communicate and we'll deal with it. It is important for them to know that they can talk to you about problems or issues without being penalized or compromised. You'll find that your players will give you much more effort if they respect you and you inspire them, rather than if they fear you and don't respect you. Respect cannot be demanded, it should be earned. Yes, a certain amount is owed by younger people at the beginning, but you'll decide if it is warranted long term, or not. They DO NOT owe you respect long term if you've shown you're not worthy of it.
Would you want to play for someone who treats their players the way you do? If so, keep on doing it. If not, think about why you're doing it, and how you could do it better. A simple test would be to honestly ask yourself if you treat other adults at work and in social settings the way you treat these boys. If not, why not? Would the other adults tolerate your approach or tell you to stick it? If they'd tell you to stick it, perhaps you should consider treating your players more like adults and expecting them to act more mature on their end. If you think the kids are going to take advantage of you, you've forgotten who is running the show. Give them a chance to get on the same page that you're on. If they don't want to, and have made it clear by their actions that they don't want to be at the level you're seeking, ask them to leave and to find another program that'll better fit what they're looking for.
You say in your initial comments "during the spring season I would have chewed him out during the game." Would you have bothered to ask him why he wasn't showing the energy needed, or would you have just chewed him out without bothering to find out if there was a reason. Perhaps the kid was sick, but playing anyway. Perhaps he got no sleep the night before and had no energy. Perhaps he has a big problem away from the field that is affecting his play on the field. Perhaps he just doesn't give a darn. IF you don't bother to find out the reason behind the sub-standard performance, how can you expect to improve it? Chewing him out isn't going to solve the problem, even if it's nothing more than a bad attitude. Take a kid with a bad attitude and chew him out, and all you're likely to do is make it worse, make him loathe you, lessen the respect you get and you didn't do a darn thing to make anyting better.
I've had kids with problems similar to what you're describing. By talking to them like I would to another adult, I'v often found out the reason and addressed that issue, whatever it was. If it was just laziness, it's as simple as putting them on the bench for a while and letting someone else have their PT. If they want to play, they'll step it up. If they don't really want to play, most often they'll take care of that situation for you.
If you want your players to be the best they can be and give the team everyting they have to offer, they need to be positively coached and led. They'll give you, as well as themselves and teammates, far more if they know you care about them and their success, than if you're viewed as nothing more than a jerk and bully who can act that way because you're the coach and they can't go play somewhere else. If you wouldn't tolerate the guy you see in the mirror talking to you that way, why do you do it?
If you aspire to be the best coach and MENTOR that you can be, most of the rest of the deal will take care of itself. You'll be amazed at the results you can get from these guys if they know you care about them, and about excellence..... and lead by example.
What age is your catcher? My son is a freshman who just turned fifteen. Recently he's competed very hard for Horse's Behind of the Month. It's a phase. Right now he's smarter than everyone. We'll survive it. He did get more time on the bench than he's accustomed to this past weekend. It should cure him for next weekend.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
Right now he's smarter than everyone.
And will likely remain so for several years...
06catchersdad, nice post!
Nicholas, I'd ask you to reread your post. I think the answer for what you need to do AND some good insights into the success you'll have as a coach are contained in that post. Read it as if you don't know who you are!
Some thoughts:
Nicholas, coaching is comprised of so many different aspects. Your personality will cement your abilities to be an effective coach. IMO, you will have arrived when you can make a simple statement of displeasure and it will bother a player. If you can do that, then you will know that they spend a lot of time trying to be the player you want them to be.
Nicholas, I'd ask you to reread your post. I think the answer for what you need to do AND some good insights into the success you'll have as a coach are contained in that post. Read it as if you don't know who you are!
Some thoughts:
- You are the coach. Why reference the high school coaching staff at all? You have diluted your authority in doing so.
- If the kid needs a break from catching, give him one. Tell him that you noticed that he didn't have as much intensity etc. and you understand that he is tired. Have him DH or something else. Look him in the eyes when you tell him. Read him. He'll let you know what's in his heart.
- Having a kid come in early is a special time when you can build bridges. It can also be a time when you can burn them. Catchers catch bullpens, they often do infield outfield as nothing more than glorified shaggers. COACH him! Believe me, as one who for 2 summers had to wear the tools of ignorance BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE WOULD, he'll appreciate it.
- Nicholas, chewing the team out for what a teammate does will only be tolerated by the team for so long. Then, they resent it. Yes, I've done it. However, after the team broke, your catcher should have been in another meeting if only to say that you noticed "things" and you want to address them. Read the player and decide if it should be then or later. Believe me, the team will "GET IT!"
- If you are going to "kick him in the butt," you'd better start with a whole bunch of "pats on the back." You mentioned that he has caught the first 6 games and did well. TELL HIM THAT! Never finish with a negative!
- Finally, statements like, "we'll never have this conversation again," do little good and are not coaching IMO. That will be taken as a threat and WILL cut off communication. Why do that?
Nicholas, coaching is comprised of so many different aspects. Your personality will cement your abilities to be an effective coach. IMO, you will have arrived when you can make a simple statement of displeasure and it will bother a player. If you can do that, then you will know that they spend a lot of time trying to be the player you want them to be.
As has already been mentioned, the first thing you did to do is listen. Ask him what was going on.
Nicholas, you now mention that he's new to the position. That's important to know. You're asking this kid to move to the single most difficult position to play well on the field, the one that takes a special mind-set to do well. Don't be surprised if he doesn't do well at first, it takes a lot of time to grow into catching. If you climb up this kid's rear end, you run the risk of killing his love for the position before he even figures out if he likes it or not. Since he's new behind the plate, give him some time. Remind him that catching is the most difficult thing to do well defensively in baseball and the reason you chose him is that you think he might be the right guy for that job. You can tell him that his level of effort has to improve without chewing him out. Be matter of fact, just tell him what you need from him in a conversational tone of voice, not confrontational. Give him the opportunity to live up to your expectations after you've clearly set out what those expectations are. Then, if he doesn't put forth the effort, find out if you've put him in a position that he doesn't like to play. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to catch, most guys don't like playing back there. For those who do, though, there is nothing like catching.
As for the references about "we'll never have this conversation again", I agree with Coach B25. I had one of those last weekend. It was reserved for a parent who called me at home to tell me he was unhappy that his all-league son sat in the second game of approximately 45 or so we'll play this summer. I did tell that dad that we weren't going to have that conversation again, and if he wanted one I'd just hand him back his money, apologize for failing to meet his high expectations and wish them well with whichever team he chose to take his son to in the future. THAT is a time when it is OK to have one of those discussions. Parents aren't players, and I'm not coaching them. Generally, you're only going to do it with a player if you're prepared to drop him from your team. You're laying down an ultimatum, and had better be prepared to back it up.
As for the references about "we'll never have this conversation again", I agree with Coach B25. I had one of those last weekend. It was reserved for a parent who called me at home to tell me he was unhappy that his all-league son sat in the second game of approximately 45 or so we'll play this summer. I did tell that dad that we weren't going to have that conversation again, and if he wanted one I'd just hand him back his money, apologize for failing to meet his high expectations and wish them well with whichever team he chose to take his son to in the future. THAT is a time when it is OK to have one of those discussions. Parents aren't players, and I'm not coaching them. Generally, you're only going to do it with a player if you're prepared to drop him from your team. You're laying down an ultimatum, and had better be prepared to back it up.
Im just old school I guess. But we dont have players that dont hustle. We dont have players with bad attitudes. If they dont hustle we cut them. If they have a bad attitude we cut them. When players realize that hustle and a good attitude are a given and not something that you have to teach them once they make the team they either hustle and have a good attitude or they get cut. If they develop a bad attitude or dont hustle once they make the team they dont play. If they continue to have a bad attitude we dismiss them from the team.
Quite frankly if a kid dogs it he does not deserve to be on the team muchless playing. If he has a bad attitude then why is he on the team? Im sure many will disagree with me thats fine it will not be the first time or the last. But I can not remember the last time I have had to tell a kid to hustle. It would be like reminding a kid to breathe. Hey your not roofing a house or primeing tobacco. Your playing baseball. If you can not get excited about playing baseball you dont need to be playing in the first place.
Go ahead and jump on me now thats fine. But it works for us. We dont have to deal with these kind of issues because the players know it will never be tolerate in any way , shape or fashion.
Quite frankly if a kid dogs it he does not deserve to be on the team muchless playing. If he has a bad attitude then why is he on the team? Im sure many will disagree with me thats fine it will not be the first time or the last. But I can not remember the last time I have had to tell a kid to hustle. It would be like reminding a kid to breathe. Hey your not roofing a house or primeing tobacco. Your playing baseball. If you can not get excited about playing baseball you dont need to be playing in the first place.
Go ahead and jump on me now thats fine. But it works for us. We dont have to deal with these kind of issues because the players know it will never be tolerate in any way , shape or fashion.
Coach May
I am with you---once the kids realize that you as the coach ain't fooling around they get in line or they walk---what you get is a team that wants "it"
I am with you---once the kids realize that you as the coach ain't fooling around they get in line or they walk---what you get is a team that wants "it"
Some programs don't have the wealth and/or depth of talent of other programs. It's easier to fix the problem than move down to the next level of ability. Obviously you don't cater to a kid being a problem. But it can be fixed.quote:If they dont hustle we cut them. If they have a bad attitude we cut them. When players realize that hustle and a good attitude are a given and not something that you have to teach them once they make the team they either hustle and have a good attitude or they get cut. If they develop a bad attitude or dont hustle once they make the team they dont play. If they continue to have a bad attitude we dismiss them from the team.
Please let us know how your talk goes.
Nic...
When I was 22 years old (20 years ago), I began coaching a team of 17-18 year olds in summer ball. I had just completed a relatively decent collegiate career and was tapped by a local man who wanted to start a travel team here in central MD. I felt that due to the close proximity in age, I needed to be hard on the guys so they didn't take advantage or treat me like their big brother. And my two assistant coaches took there queues from me, so they were equally as hard.
It took me about 6 years to discover I had wasted 6 years of talent. What I discovered was that I had crossed the line from intensity to insanity. I expected guys to do everything right all the time, and when they didn't I levied punitive discipline to get them in line. It flat out didn't work. During my 7th year, I decided that a more direct, respectful approach was warranted. I explained how I expected honesty, intensity and hard work from them, and in return, I and my coaching staff would be there to support and assist them in their development. During that season, I discovered that the formula for developing a winning ball club was in making everyone feel like part of the team. Why did our "A" catcher need to catch every game? In those first few seasons, our "A" catcher caught 95% of the innings of a 65 game schedule. Talk about burned out!!!
I'm not telling you to change. The bottom line is that you have made a commitment to coach a ball club, probably with no pay, and that should be commended. You have the ability to surround yourself with your type of players. But you seem sincere in wanting to learn from folks who have more experience. I don't know if you have children of your own, but ask yourself "how would I want my kid to be coached?" Of course you want them to work hard, learn and play with intensity. And you want a coach who will "COACH" them, teach them and care for them along the way. The worst thing you can do is try and be a player's buddy. But it is OK to let your players see the human side of you. If you show them you care about them on their bad days, as much as you do on their good days, you will see they will come ready to play everyday. And on those days they don't seem up to snuff, remember you aren't at your best everyday either (or are you?).
When I was 22 years old (20 years ago), I began coaching a team of 17-18 year olds in summer ball. I had just completed a relatively decent collegiate career and was tapped by a local man who wanted to start a travel team here in central MD. I felt that due to the close proximity in age, I needed to be hard on the guys so they didn't take advantage or treat me like their big brother. And my two assistant coaches took there queues from me, so they were equally as hard.
It took me about 6 years to discover I had wasted 6 years of talent. What I discovered was that I had crossed the line from intensity to insanity. I expected guys to do everything right all the time, and when they didn't I levied punitive discipline to get them in line. It flat out didn't work. During my 7th year, I decided that a more direct, respectful approach was warranted. I explained how I expected honesty, intensity and hard work from them, and in return, I and my coaching staff would be there to support and assist them in their development. During that season, I discovered that the formula for developing a winning ball club was in making everyone feel like part of the team. Why did our "A" catcher need to catch every game? In those first few seasons, our "A" catcher caught 95% of the innings of a 65 game schedule. Talk about burned out!!!
I'm not telling you to change. The bottom line is that you have made a commitment to coach a ball club, probably with no pay, and that should be commended. You have the ability to surround yourself with your type of players. But you seem sincere in wanting to learn from folks who have more experience. I don't know if you have children of your own, but ask yourself "how would I want my kid to be coached?" Of course you want them to work hard, learn and play with intensity. And you want a coach who will "COACH" them, teach them and care for them along the way. The worst thing you can do is try and be a player's buddy. But it is OK to let your players see the human side of you. If you show them you care about them on their bad days, as much as you do on their good days, you will see they will come ready to play everyday. And on those days they don't seem up to snuff, remember you aren't at your best everyday either (or are you?).
HS and summer players need to learn early on that Hustle and a good attitude do not take a day off, Never-Ever.
They have know idea who is watching??
EH
They have know idea who is watching??
EH
quote:Originally posted by theEH:
HS and summer players need to learn early on that Hustle and a good attitude do not take a day off, Never-Ever.
They have know idea who is watching??
EH
I agree. If the player doesn't want to play, they need to make a decision not to be there. If you don't love the game, don't disrespect it by giving a half effort. There are plenty other players that would want to play.
larrythompson, nice post!
Nicholas, in lieu of other responses, and the fact that I was thinking about the kid himself, perhaps you should just throw him off the team.
I've never had to take the "my way or the highway" approach. I've always been able to get players to want to play for me. How? I've always coached by the pat them on the back and kick them in the butt but always make sure you pat them on the back a lot more than kick them in the butt. Yes, the kick them in the butt was always a bad one. I do know this, I sure didn't coach through fear. Of course, you can do it either way.
Let's face it, we are all giving advice based upon ourselves and what has worked for us. None of our personalities are the same. What works for one will not work for another. Anyone that ever read an article about my teams would have read that I had the best kids. They would do anything I asked without complaint. Should any deviate, a simple little talk did the trick. PLUS A SENSE OF THE TEAM NOT PUTTING UP WITH INDIVIDUALS. Well, each to their own. JMHO!
Nicholas, in lieu of other responses, and the fact that I was thinking about the kid himself, perhaps you should just throw him off the team.
I've never had to take the "my way or the highway" approach. I've always been able to get players to want to play for me. How? I've always coached by the pat them on the back and kick them in the butt but always make sure you pat them on the back a lot more than kick them in the butt. Yes, the kick them in the butt was always a bad one. I do know this, I sure didn't coach through fear. Of course, you can do it either way.
Let's face it, we are all giving advice based upon ourselves and what has worked for us. None of our personalities are the same. What works for one will not work for another. Anyone that ever read an article about my teams would have read that I had the best kids. They would do anything I asked without complaint. Should any deviate, a simple little talk did the trick. PLUS A SENSE OF THE TEAM NOT PUTTING UP WITH INDIVIDUALS. Well, each to their own. JMHO!
B25, May and others; I doubt that any of us are all that different from the rest. I don't see any of you guys, and we've talked enough in the chat room to know a little bit about each other, simply kicking a kid off a team without first talking to him, at least once. I know that you guys care very much about what is in the best interest of the players, and coach them accordingly. Coach May, you haven't exactly said it, but I'd be shocked if you would dump a kid without having a conversation with him beforehand, I know that isn't the type of person you are. But I also think that you are able to avoid many of these situations by getting the right players to begin with, which is what I strive to do as well.
You can't overestimate the degree to which you keep problems to a minimum by proper player selection. Virtually all of the boys who play summer ball on my teams are serious players who aspire to play beyond high school. There is rarely a need to talk to that kind of kid about hustle or motivation.
You can't overestimate the degree to which you keep problems to a minimum by proper player selection. Virtually all of the boys who play summer ball on my teams are serious players who aspire to play beyond high school. There is rarely a need to talk to that kind of kid about hustle or motivation.
quote:but I also understand that is also the best way to have players and parents hate you.
If you think you are going to please everybody you are not. If you try to you will be in deep trouble. I know I never worried about parents hating me after all I never wrote their name on the lineup card. As far as players hating you then they can play somewhere else where the coach lets them do what they want. And in that my experience tells me the TEAM will not be successful
While I agree withe CM & TR on hustle not being optional, I also feel it is important to give a player the chance to explain what was going on.
You might find, as I did one time, that a kid has just been in the middle of a blowup between his parents. Or that a close relative passed away. Or some other truly extenuating circumstances.
Should there be no valid causes, then the expectations must be clearly explained and upheld.
You might find, as I did one time, that a kid has just been in the middle of a blowup between his parents. Or that a close relative passed away. Or some other truly extenuating circumstances.
Should there be no valid causes, then the expectations must be clearly explained and upheld.
Yes you are correct. It is all about player selection. When you select the right guys you dont have to worry about these problems. Now if I have selected a player and I see a guy not doing what I know he should do I am going to have a talk with him. If he does not correct it then he is gone. If he does then everything is back in order.
What happens is when you first start a program you have to set the tone and you can not waver. You can not be one way one day and another way another day. You can not allow one kid to do one thing and another kid to do another. When players realize what is expected then they will either not come out or they will come out knowing that this is the way it is going to be. The ones you might have trouble with dont even bother coming out for the team.
Look there are certain things that you do not have the time or the desire to deal with. #1 Players with bad attitudes. #2 Players that will not be dedicated. #3 Players that have to be told to hustle. I am going to spend my time coaching young men that want to learn , want to win , want to be coached , want to be good team mates and are respectful of others. Im not going to spend my time with any player that does not fall into that category.
Did you notice I didnt say anything about talent? If they dont have the aforementioned attributes then how talented they are does not mean a thing to me. We have won and will continue to win with young men that love the game and the desire to compete. If you build your program on a foundation of sand by not demanding that they be quality young men then it will crumble.
If you have to be told to hustle just think about what that means. Im going to have a guy on the bench that desperately wants to play and I know is going to give me everything he has and play a guy that has to be told to hustle? No , it just is not going to happen.
What happens is when you first start a program you have to set the tone and you can not waver. You can not be one way one day and another way another day. You can not allow one kid to do one thing and another kid to do another. When players realize what is expected then they will either not come out or they will come out knowing that this is the way it is going to be. The ones you might have trouble with dont even bother coming out for the team.
Look there are certain things that you do not have the time or the desire to deal with. #1 Players with bad attitudes. #2 Players that will not be dedicated. #3 Players that have to be told to hustle. I am going to spend my time coaching young men that want to learn , want to win , want to be coached , want to be good team mates and are respectful of others. Im not going to spend my time with any player that does not fall into that category.
Did you notice I didnt say anything about talent? If they dont have the aforementioned attributes then how talented they are does not mean a thing to me. We have won and will continue to win with young men that love the game and the desire to compete. If you build your program on a foundation of sand by not demanding that they be quality young men then it will crumble.
If you have to be told to hustle just think about what that means. Im going to have a guy on the bench that desperately wants to play and I know is going to give me everything he has and play a guy that has to be told to hustle? No , it just is not going to happen.
Nicholas-
I may have a bit of a different perspective. I am currently in that transition phase. I have been coaching for 5 years, all as a head coach. I started off as the drill sargent (only 22 years old at the time coaching kids just 4 years younger than me). Each year, I have noticed myself change and become more of a teacher than a coach. I now look at coaching as an extension of the classroom. I would never make a kid do wind sprints because they got a problem wrong in my Algebra class, I wouldn't yell at them, I would teach them how to do it correctly. In my opinion you should spend twice as much time critiquing yourself and your coaching staff as you do your players. It seems as though you are beginning to look at the way you do things and that is one of the best qualities a coach can have.
I do not feel that my expectations for my athletes have lessened, the way I go about ensuring they live up to them has. I trust my athletes and allow them to be individuals within a team concept. In addition to helping them learn and become adults, I have found that this is a much more enjoyable way for me to coach. It reduces my stress and reduces the stress for my players. They are not afraid to make mistakes as long as they learn from them, just like I am not afraid to make mistakes as long as I learn from them.
I may have a bit of a different perspective. I am currently in that transition phase. I have been coaching for 5 years, all as a head coach. I started off as the drill sargent (only 22 years old at the time coaching kids just 4 years younger than me). Each year, I have noticed myself change and become more of a teacher than a coach. I now look at coaching as an extension of the classroom. I would never make a kid do wind sprints because they got a problem wrong in my Algebra class, I wouldn't yell at them, I would teach them how to do it correctly. In my opinion you should spend twice as much time critiquing yourself and your coaching staff as you do your players. It seems as though you are beginning to look at the way you do things and that is one of the best qualities a coach can have.
I do not feel that my expectations for my athletes have lessened, the way I go about ensuring they live up to them has. I trust my athletes and allow them to be individuals within a team concept. In addition to helping them learn and become adults, I have found that this is a much more enjoyable way for me to coach. It reduces my stress and reduces the stress for my players. They are not afraid to make mistakes as long as they learn from them, just like I am not afraid to make mistakes as long as I learn from them.
BC, great post! Your philosophy captures so much of what I believe.
CM, we're so much on the same page, I'll bet we could walk into a dugout together and work pretty seamlessly right from the start. I've been giving a lot of thought to your comments, and you certainly look for all the same things I do. When people ask me what type of baseball players I want on our teams, I tell them we're looking for three things in the kid; We want kids who are capable of being good players, who are quality individuals and who come from quality families. If you get a kid who has those qualities, you have a great time playing ball with them, and have virtually no problems.
One thing that helps us is that I mentor my older players to become leaders by assisting the younger guys who are coming along behind them. It's easy to ask them to do it, since my older guys who are now playing in college or minor league ball bought into that concept and helped these current guys when they were first coming in. I tell the current guys that since the older guys helped them, they owe it back and have to help the younger guys who'll be in their position when they move on. We get most of the top players in our region, (8 on this year's Connie Mack team have D1 deals, and several more will after July 1) and I truly believe that part of what has helped them become that caliber of player is understanding that being a quality player is about more than just what they do between the lines, it's also getting them to buy into the concept that they need to be a quality Student Athleteand all that encompasses. It's heartening when some of the older players come around to visit with the younger guys. The younger kids look up to the college and Milb guys, and I couldn't be happier with the older guys than when they take the time to share their experience and views with the current players. They GET IT, and I'm proud as heck of them for being quality young men. Those are the kinds of players who build successful organizations. They also make coaching very easy.
One additional thing that really seems to help my boys play their you know what's off, is that they all know it is OK to fail on the field, as long as they aren't mental mistakes. I tell them that if they make a mistake, it's OK as long as they learn from it and it doesn't keep happening over and over. If they know they won't hear about a failure becuase they busted their butt and tried to do something they might not attempt in high school season, they learn that they can do things beyond what they believed. Hustle is rewarded big time, effort is rewarded big time and it gets contagious. Having the freedom and latitude to explore the limits of their ability is empowering to many of them, and it's common to see our players acheive at higher levels than they do in school baseball. Nothing makes me prouder than to see a center fielder go into the gap, lay out and make a diving catch with a corner outfielder backing him up, when he wouldn't dream of trying that during our HS season. That kind of play sets the tone for everyone and becomes contagious up and down the bench.
CM, we're so much on the same page, I'll bet we could walk into a dugout together and work pretty seamlessly right from the start. I've been giving a lot of thought to your comments, and you certainly look for all the same things I do. When people ask me what type of baseball players I want on our teams, I tell them we're looking for three things in the kid; We want kids who are capable of being good players, who are quality individuals and who come from quality families. If you get a kid who has those qualities, you have a great time playing ball with them, and have virtually no problems.
One thing that helps us is that I mentor my older players to become leaders by assisting the younger guys who are coming along behind them. It's easy to ask them to do it, since my older guys who are now playing in college or minor league ball bought into that concept and helped these current guys when they were first coming in. I tell the current guys that since the older guys helped them, they owe it back and have to help the younger guys who'll be in their position when they move on. We get most of the top players in our region, (8 on this year's Connie Mack team have D1 deals, and several more will after July 1) and I truly believe that part of what has helped them become that caliber of player is understanding that being a quality player is about more than just what they do between the lines, it's also getting them to buy into the concept that they need to be a quality Student Athleteand all that encompasses. It's heartening when some of the older players come around to visit with the younger guys. The younger kids look up to the college and Milb guys, and I couldn't be happier with the older guys than when they take the time to share their experience and views with the current players. They GET IT, and I'm proud as heck of them for being quality young men. Those are the kinds of players who build successful organizations. They also make coaching very easy.
One additional thing that really seems to help my boys play their you know what's off, is that they all know it is OK to fail on the field, as long as they aren't mental mistakes. I tell them that if they make a mistake, it's OK as long as they learn from it and it doesn't keep happening over and over. If they know they won't hear about a failure becuase they busted their butt and tried to do something they might not attempt in high school season, they learn that they can do things beyond what they believed. Hustle is rewarded big time, effort is rewarded big time and it gets contagious. Having the freedom and latitude to explore the limits of their ability is empowering to many of them, and it's common to see our players acheive at higher levels than they do in school baseball. Nothing makes me prouder than to see a center fielder go into the gap, lay out and make a diving catch with a corner outfielder backing him up, when he wouldn't dream of trying that during our HS season. That kind of play sets the tone for everyone and becomes contagious up and down the bench.
Great posts. I want you to make plays. I want you to look for ways to make plays. Throw the baseball behind runners. Attack the game. Play fearless baseball. I have never in my entire time of coaching baseball every gotten upset at a kid that was trying to make a play and didnt. I have never gotten upset at a kid that was trying to make it happen at the plate. There can be no fear of messing up. There can be no fear of not have success. I get upset when I see a kid that does not attack the game out of fear he will fail. I have never yelled at a player in my life for making an error. I have never in my life yelled at a kid for striking out. The only time I get upset is when I believe there is a lack of focus and a lack of true desire to make a play. Wether it be from fear of failure or lack of effort.
A good coach instills confidence in his players. He lets them know that he believes in them. He allows them to go out and play the game without fear of failure. The only thing I ask is you play the game with no fear and attack the game of baseball with passion and a true love of competition. We never fail if we do that. We might not win every game on the scoreboard. But we never fail. We just run out of innings.
A good coach instills confidence in his players. He lets them know that he believes in them. He allows them to go out and play the game without fear of failure. The only thing I ask is you play the game with no fear and attack the game of baseball with passion and a true love of competition. We never fail if we do that. We might not win every game on the scoreboard. But we never fail. We just run out of innings.
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
While I agree withe CM & TR on hustle not being optional, I also feel it is important to give a player the chance to explain what was going on.
You might find, as I did one time, that a kid has just been in the middle of a blowup between his parents. Or that a close relative passed away. Or some other truly extenuating circumstances.
Should there be no valid causes, then the expectations must be clearly explained and upheld.
Texan...great point!
I had a kid about 10 years ago who was having a horrible two or three days in a row. Mental and physical mistakes. I figured everyone could have some off days, but it was getting really out of character for him. After a game, I took him on the side and asked what was up? This 6'1", 190 lbs. 17 year old proceeded to break into tears while he told me his dad was beating the **** out of him and his mom. He explained how the best part of his day was the 5 hours he spent playing baseball with the team. We took corrective action against the dad (using the law), and that really made things better for him and mom. Bottom line, you never know what could be going on with a young man/lady until you ask.
quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
When people ask me what type of baseball players I want on our teams, I tell them we're looking for three things in the kid; We want kids who are capable of being good players, who are quality individuals and who come from quality families.
06catcherdad, we agree for the most part and do so in many threads. However, I did want to point this sentence out. It's great to have those qualities in a player but there are times when the kid has so many obstacles in his way. Certainly, I did not meet those criteria and yet, I did resonably well. I had to have a coach who I could grow to trust since I hated everyone. Yes, everyone hated me as well. Since I took up coaching, I've run in to me several times. I coached on young man who's Mom would have to have me come over to control him. He raged against life itself. He hated everyone including me. On the field he was a chore and I cut him no slack. In the end, he ended up going to college, playing in the majors and giving back to his community. He continues to give back to this very day and is a fixture now in the community. I could have taken the easy road several times and cut him loose. Please, everyone keep that in mind when we are putting all of these players into our idea of what we want to achieve as a coach.
Nicholas, thank you having an open enough mind to try a different approach. Regardless of how this turns out, just the fact that you're willing to listen to other ways of doing things and trying them indicates you're likely to be successful in coaching. So much of coaching, beyond knowing the game, is people skills. Coaches who have good people skills tend to be the more successful ones over the long haul. It sounds like you handled this situation well and now that you know the reasons the kid isn't living up to your expectations, you have the ability to better measure his effort. He also got the chance to learn what you expect in what sounds like a positive encounter.
Don't worry B25, I take my share of project kids as well as the kind I seek out. I've got three or four this summer who don't fit the ideal mold, but seem to be kids worth spending some time on. One is a kid who has off-field issues with his personal conduct and the choices he makes. He's a good kid, nice kid; but tends to associate with the wrong kind of kids away from the game. We're working on positively changing that behavior, and it started with him and me having a one on one, without his parents there, to talk about his unacceptable choices and what was expected if we allowed him to play with us. The kid had to look me in the eye and give me his word that he won't let me down on this stuff, or ever negatively influence any kid in the program. He knows what the consequences will be if he violates our deal. He's got D1 ability, but a mentality that threatens it all.
Don't worry B25, I take my share of project kids as well as the kind I seek out. I've got three or four this summer who don't fit the ideal mold, but seem to be kids worth spending some time on. One is a kid who has off-field issues with his personal conduct and the choices he makes. He's a good kid, nice kid; but tends to associate with the wrong kind of kids away from the game. We're working on positively changing that behavior, and it started with him and me having a one on one, without his parents there, to talk about his unacceptable choices and what was expected if we allowed him to play with us. The kid had to look me in the eye and give me his word that he won't let me down on this stuff, or ever negatively influence any kid in the program. He knows what the consequences will be if he violates our deal. He's got D1 ability, but a mentality that threatens it all.
quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
When people ask me what type of baseball players I want on our teams, I tell them we're looking for three things in the kid; We want kids who are capable of being good players, who are quality individuals and who come from quality families.
06catcherdad, we agree for the most part and do so in many threads. However, I did want to point this sentence out. It's great to have those qualities in a player but there are times when the kid has so many obstacles in his way. Certainly, I did not meet those criteria and yet, I did resonably well. I had to have a coach who I could grow to trust since I hated everyone. Yes, everyone hated me as well. Since I took up coaching, I've run in to me several times. I coached on young man who's Mom would have to have me come over to control him. He raged against life itself. He hated everyone including me. On the field he was a chore and I cut him no slack. In the end, he ended up going to college, playing in the majors and giving back to his community. He continues to give back to this very day and is a fixture now in the community. I could have taken the easy road several times and cut him loose. Please, everyone keep that in mind when we are putting all of these players into our idea of what we want to achieve as a coach.
06CDAD...I understand the spirit of what you are saying with regards to requirement #3 (quality family), but you don't mean that literally do you? I mean kids can't control who their parents are.
My major issue was I wanted guys who were good to be around during the 3rd inning of the first game of a Sunday DHer in July when it is 93 degrees out with 90% humidity.
Larry, what I mean, very literally, is that I want good parents, not the helicopter types who want to hover and are always worried about johnny. I'll tolerate about 100 times the amount of 'stuff' from a player that I will from a parent. I'll give you two examples of exchanges I've had with parents to illustrate my view.
Last week, we began our summer season. I couldn't be at our games, other than the first game on Saturday, due to my daughter's high school graduation and the parties everyone was having. On Saturday night, I had this hysterical message from a deranged parent, complaining about how his 'all-league' son sat out of one of the two games, while a 'clearly inferior' player got his playing time. It was a very good thing the parent left a message, rather than confront me in person. I waited about ten minutes to calm down, then phoned him back. He wasn't there, so I left a polite but firm message that I wanted to talk to him to address his concerns. When he called back, the first thing he did was apologize for the tone of his message and said I probably thought he was some kind of nut job; I didn't disagree with him. What I did was explain to the parent MY rationale for why I asked my coaches to play the 'other kid', and that throwing that other kid a bone was the real reason his son sat. We talked for a while and the father eventually understood exactly what the rationale was behind the playing time decision. He felt pretty dumb at the end for ever having brought his complaint up. I finished up by telling the dad that "we aren't going to have this type of conversation again, ever. If you initiate one, it'll be the last talk we ever have with your son as a member of any of our teams. Understood?"
The other parent I'll use as an example is an attorney for a major public corporation. She has more chutzpa than any two men I've ever met, combined. She approached me one time about five years ago, and said "When (not IF, but WHEN) we have a problem with how you coach the team, how are we going to handle it?" I simply told her that we weren't going to have a problem; that I'd hand her a check while shaking her hand and apoligizing for failing to meet her high expectations for her son. Her jaw dropped, and she asked if I really meant that I'd cut her son from the team if she complained. I told her I'd do it in a New York second, as I didn't give a **** about her views regarding my teams and that there are plenty of other players out there who'd love to play for us. I told her that if she knew how to do it better than me, do what I did and start your own team. She knew I meant it, and I never had another problem with her, and her son played with us in 4 more summers. He went on to get a nice scholarship with a Pac-10 school, then went back later to a juco as he aspired to play pro ball. It was a big mistake, but that's another story for another time.
I'm not trying to save the world, this is a hobby for me, not my job. There are plenty of wonderful young men out there who aspire to play beyond high school, and I enjoy helping as many as I can acheive that dream. I don't need to put up with parents who want to act like idiots in the process. So, long answer to a short question, YEAH, that's exactly what I meant to say.
Last week, we began our summer season. I couldn't be at our games, other than the first game on Saturday, due to my daughter's high school graduation and the parties everyone was having. On Saturday night, I had this hysterical message from a deranged parent, complaining about how his 'all-league' son sat out of one of the two games, while a 'clearly inferior' player got his playing time. It was a very good thing the parent left a message, rather than confront me in person. I waited about ten minutes to calm down, then phoned him back. He wasn't there, so I left a polite but firm message that I wanted to talk to him to address his concerns. When he called back, the first thing he did was apologize for the tone of his message and said I probably thought he was some kind of nut job; I didn't disagree with him. What I did was explain to the parent MY rationale for why I asked my coaches to play the 'other kid', and that throwing that other kid a bone was the real reason his son sat. We talked for a while and the father eventually understood exactly what the rationale was behind the playing time decision. He felt pretty dumb at the end for ever having brought his complaint up. I finished up by telling the dad that "we aren't going to have this type of conversation again, ever. If you initiate one, it'll be the last talk we ever have with your son as a member of any of our teams. Understood?"
The other parent I'll use as an example is an attorney for a major public corporation. She has more chutzpa than any two men I've ever met, combined. She approached me one time about five years ago, and said "When (not IF, but WHEN) we have a problem with how you coach the team, how are we going to handle it?" I simply told her that we weren't going to have a problem; that I'd hand her a check while shaking her hand and apoligizing for failing to meet her high expectations for her son. Her jaw dropped, and she asked if I really meant that I'd cut her son from the team if she complained. I told her I'd do it in a New York second, as I didn't give a **** about her views regarding my teams and that there are plenty of other players out there who'd love to play for us. I told her that if she knew how to do it better than me, do what I did and start your own team. She knew I meant it, and I never had another problem with her, and her son played with us in 4 more summers. He went on to get a nice scholarship with a Pac-10 school, then went back later to a juco as he aspired to play pro ball. It was a big mistake, but that's another story for another time.
I'm not trying to save the world, this is a hobby for me, not my job. There are plenty of wonderful young men out there who aspire to play beyond high school, and I enjoy helping as many as I can acheive that dream. I don't need to put up with parents who want to act like idiots in the process. So, long answer to a short question, YEAH, that's exactly what I meant to say.
Use the bench Nick. --
quote:Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
Larry, what I mean, very literally, is that I want good parents, not the helicopter types who want to hover and are always worried about johnny. I'll tolerate about 100 times the amount of 'stuff' from a player that I will from a parent. I'll give you two examples of exchanges I've had with parents to illustrate my view.
Last week, we began our summer season. I couldn't be at our games, other than the first game on Saturday, due to my daughter's high school graduation and the parties everyone was having. On Saturday night, I had this hysterical message from a deranged parent, complaining about how his 'all-league' son sat out of one of the two games, while a 'clearly inferior' player got his playing time. It was a very good thing the parent left a message, rather than confront me in person. I waited about ten minutes to calm down, then phoned him back. He wasn't there, so I left a polite but firm message that I wanted to talk to him to address his concerns. When he called back, the first thing he did was apologize for the tone of his message and said I probably thought he was some kind of nut job; I didn't disagree with him. What I did was explain to the parent MY rationale for why I asked my coaches to play the 'other kid', and that throwing that other kid a bone was the real reason his son sat. We talked for a while and the father eventually understood exactly what the rationale was behind the playing time decision. He felt pretty dumb at the end for ever having brought his complaint up. I finished up by telling the dad that "we aren't going to have this type of conversation again, ever. If you initiate one, it'll be the last talk we ever have with your son as a member of any of our teams. Understood?"
The other parent I'll use as an example is an attorney for a major public corporation. She has more chutzpa than any two men I've ever met, combined. She approached me one time about five years ago, and said "When (not IF, but WHEN) we have a problem with how you coach the team, how are we going to handle it?" I simply told her that we weren't going to have a problem; that I'd hand her a check while shaking her hand and apoligizing for failing to meet her high expectations for her son. Her jaw dropped, and she asked if I really meant that I'd cut her son from the team if she complained. I told her I'd do it in a New York second, as I didn't give a **** about her views regarding my teams and that there are plenty of other players out there who'd love to play for us. I told her that if she knew how to do it better than me, do what I did and start your own team. She knew I meant it, and I never had another problem with her, and her son played with us in 4 more summers. He went on to get a nice scholarship with a Pac-10 school, then went back later to a juco as he aspired to play pro ball. It was a big mistake, but that's another story for another time.
I'm not trying to save the world, this is a hobby for me, not my job. There are plenty of wonderful young men out there who aspire to play beyond high school, and I enjoy helping as many as I can acheive that dream. I don't need to put up with parents who want to act like idiots in the process. So, long answer to a short question, YEAH, that's exactly what I meant to say.
You handled both exactly the way I handled those scenarios the last 10 years I was coaching.
I got another one to share. First year player for me. All-league pitcher/3B in first DHer weekend of the season. He pitches a gem in game one, but throws about 95 pitches. We were a little short-handed (ie. graduation stuff), so we played him the second game...but only at DH. His parents went bananas and asked how I could sit their son. It was the first week, he just pitched a ball game, and I was in charge. When they insisted, I told them they could drop his uniform off to me after it was washed. Problem solved.
Larry
I would not have even asked them to clean the uniform--CIAO BAby
I would not have even asked them to clean the uniform--CIAO BAby
