More Fee only Showcase, camps and developmental clinics?

The camp being run at the Bo Jackson/Cangelosi dome is an excellent one . The price is fair considering the wide range of schools attending. Not just D1 majors ..but some d2s , d3s and jucos as well. If you are questioning whether or not there is any value to an unsigned 2009 attending this camp , i guess that would depend on his talent level . There will be plently of D1 s who will be signing kids in or shortly after the spring . It is an incorrect misleading statement to say all of the D1 schools have no scholarship money left . Lots of things can happen to a D1 roster between now and june . Lots of value in this camp for players of all levels to be seen and work with these coaches. I can tell you of many 09s who attended this camp last year who received scholarships from schools that attended --including SEC and PAC 10 schools . There is a reason that there will be about 175 kids attending this camp ....they see a high value in it ..getting a good bang for the buck ....and REPUTATION of the organization who is hosting the camp . AS far as your statement of the best camps to attend are the free ones ...you get what you pay for .

200 may be hefty coin for your wallet, but compared to the costs of other showcases/camps, this cost is in the below average range.

hizhonor

I would not get too hung up on this "D1 thing." The topic has been discussed a lot in this forum but
there are a lot of other places where your son can go play good baseball. You sound discouraged...don't be.

As Mr. Nobody mentioned, they are not all out of money. Some of these D1 teams are going to lose kids via the draft, others will leave & switch schools for a variety of reasons, while some others will want to keep eligibility for the MLB draft and decide not to fulfill their LOI committments.

Don't believe that a D1 is the "end all" for all high school baseball players. In AZ and other Western States there is a noted lack of D1 schools with baseball programs (AZ has 7 million people and only 2 D1 baseball programs)and many of those AZ kids either stay home and play at top notch JUCOs or they must leave the State (expensive.) I am told that for many of them, playing D3 baseball is their best option.

As for camps, I agree you get what you pay for. But I will add, if your kid is a pitcher then they are still looking for him to light up the radar gun. If you don't, then all the perfect mechanics in the world are not going to impress most of them IMO. Why else do they break out the radar guns? A good PFP session probably isn't going to get you anywhere!

I attended the Cangelosi/Bo Jackson camp last year. Yes, there were many D1's there, but also, there were a lot of smaller schools there as well. After the camp I was contacted by 2 of these smaller schools and offered a scholarship at one. I was never the type of player that lit up stopwatches at schowcases, however, I did recieve attention from them as a result of this "fee style" camp. Also, I learned a few things from the college coaches during the position specific time.

I found this article had some good information on what your situation is........

http://www.prepbaseballreport.com/Blogs/tabid/443/EntryID/19/Default.aspx

A few things on this topic:

1) It definetly is possible for a DI school to sign a player this "late" in the player's timeline. I DH'ed my whole junior year in high school and did not get much hype from any big name schools. I had plenty of offers to go play football & baseball at a ton of DIII schools. When I decided that I wanted to explore the DI route I went down to U of I and did their winter camp. After I got home from the camp Coach Itch Jones called me quite a few times and wanted me to come to school there as a "preferred walk-on".

I wanted to wait and play my senior season before I made a decision either way. After a very good senior year I sent out a bunch of letters to schools and about 1/3 responded with varying degrees of interest. Ultimately I ended up at UIC and had a pretty nice scholarship for 3.5 out of the 5 years I was there.

2) Answering the question in regards free vs. fee based clinics. What keeps the lights on? Who pays for a coach from Arkansas (example) to drive up in the dead of winter to work with these kids? The baseballs that are being thrown around the gym? The website that the information is being put on? The marketing for the event? The staff? Etc.?

Owning an instructional facility is by no means a huge moneymaker, and for anyone that wants to argue this I would be more than happy to open up my books and show you the proof. When I made the decision to own and operate my own facility I was aknowledging the fact that I am willing to live a fairly modest lifestyle.

I get to go to work every day and do what I love to do, with people I like to be around, and give back to the game that gave me so much.

These camps (in most cases) must carry a fee . . . unless there is some form of sponsorship.

My biggest issue is not with the cost, but with the broken promises. I will do my best for a kid and write letters, make phone calls, and send e-mails to the schools that I see fit and we agree on. There are never any guarantees though.

We (Play Ball USA) do host FREE hitting and pitching clinics every month, but these are conducted by our own in-house staff and are basic in structure and only an hour long each.

I do agree that the cost should be held within reason, but please do not claim that ALL facilities (or "outfits") that participate in such events are money driven.

In November I was invited down to a clinic at Tiger Town (Lakeland, FL). Coaches from Miami, FSU, Tenn., Vandy, FGCU, USF, UCF, Georgia State, VCU, and a host of others were all in attendance. My expenses were taken care of and I was given a reasonable (considering I was out of work for 3 days) paycheck. The cost of the 3 day event was $700, which included room & board, and I would be willing to bet that most all in attendance felt it was worth every penny.

Sorry for rambling on, but I thought I would provide my opinion as a former player going through it and as a current coach/facility owner on the other side of it.

-Nelson

Don't overlook the link that Mack posted - great article by Sean Duncan on the mysteries of college baseball recruiting.

I can't imagine too many things being free. That would be nice, but surely not realistic.

So everyone has to answer the question, do I/can I want to pay X amount of dollars for this event? Some people don't have the money. So you don't go. Some people don't want to pay the money. So you don't go. This doesn't mean that the event is bogus and not worth the money.

PG events are, what...$549? That's a lot of money to me. And I probably have to travel to get there. However, I know my son will get in front of a lot of people and will get on the PG website. It will be well worth the money once we get around to going.

My son attended session one at the Cangelosi camp this weekend. $250. 8 hours over two dates. Unparalleled indoor facility. Had one on one interaction, instruction and also indirect observation from:

Kansas
Illinois
Auburn
South Alabama
Kentucky
Purdue
Central Michigan
SE Iowa CC
West Point
Wright State
Oakland
Valparaiso
Central Florida
Northwestern
Illinois State
St. Joseph (IN)
Northern Illinois
Eastern Illinois
Michigan
DePauw
St. Francis
Concordia
Robert Morris
Purdue

There are probably a couple I missed. You'll note, these are not all D1 schools. A nice mix of schools for a nice mix of players. Plus, Stanford, Arizona State, Boston College and others are coming next week.

Gee, to me that sounds like it's worth the money. And I don't see any "shame" on these schools for participating.

I think hizhonor (new poster) makes several unnecessary, blatant statements that seem to have an agenda.

NG brought up something that is often not discussed regarding showcases/camps, attended by in and out of state coaches. The organizers of the showcases/camps are subsidizing in whole or part, the coach's costs to WORK it.

There is nothing wrong w/ questioning costs but I might add, that when my kid's hockey friends tell me what they have to pay for "ice" time suddenly those fees/expenses don't see very high!!!!

As for the dome.....what did it cost last week to heat that place? It could not have been cheap.

The cost of anything is paramount to most of us right now. But, nonetheless, if someone writes something that this forum allows and encourages, he's accused of having an agenda and of making unnecessary statements. I don't happen to agree with Hizhonor in some of what he said, but I don't assume that he's got an agenda.

Bottom line, if players weren't coming to these showcases and paying the going rate, they wouldn't be so common. And with the successes of a few of our teams on the national scene the past couple of years, it's only natural that more coaches and recruiters will be drawn to our area. But, how and if someone chooses to spend their money is up to them. Just my opinion.

Rosy

will agree with your second paragraph

disagree with your first . How else would you comprehend hizzoners statements ? He either has some type of agenda or is totally misinformed . He is trying to make it sound like a kid has absolutely no chance to eventually get a baseball scholarship by attending this camp . I personally know of more than a few players who wound up committing to a school that was at this camp last year after initially being seen there. Its a great event to get on their radar and have them follow you thru spring , summer and fall . Hizzoner has tried to say that this event is being marketed toward the 09 class under false pretense ...not true . This camp is basically geared for the 2010 class ..but its still a good chance for an unsigned 09 to be seen up close one last time . WE all know there are no guarantees with regards to possibly getting a scholarship offer just because money was plunked own to attend this camp or any other. That being said --$250.00 is relatively inexpensive considering all of the schools from different parts of the country attending. Who else in our area puts on a camp such as this one in the off-season ? I cant think of not a one . Hefty price tag for 2 weekend sessions ? hardly .

We attended this camp last year . Hands down overall the best camp we ever attended . Money well spent .


We need to hear feedback from others who attended this past weekend and after next weekend sessions . Would like to hear what they thought .

Anytime a potential recruit has a chance to get himself in front of 25 schools at one location for a relatively inexpensive price it is a good thing . Anyone who would knock this or put it down in any way obviously would appear to have some sort of an AGENDA .

If hizzoners doesnt think his unsigned 09 kid would benefit from attending this camp ....then DONT GO . DUH !!! Dont try to put out false info with a needlessly garbagelike post that had absolutely nothing to offer .

I too agree with Rosy on paragraph 2 and not paragraph 1. hizoner starts by asking a question, but then he makes many stastements about no charge for showcases. His mind was made up. He doesn't feel showcases are worth the money, or he just wanted to take a swing at the Cangelosi showcase. My son went last year, and it had the most coaches from the most places outside of maybe Stevenson. And maybe asw diversified as Stevenson. I don't count the coaches, I am just going from memeory and impressions.

I have an agenda alright, to help other parents cut threw some of the material which is constantly being thrown our way. I think parents are being brain washed into believing that they have to attend these constant showcases camps and clinics if there kid is to be considered by good schools. I just happen to believe that unless the kid is really talented like the top percent athlete his choices are really limited and the pressure for spending big bucks on these clinics is becoming a problem. You can't so much as pose a question about the camp operators without being ridiculed and scolded by people here. wonder why that is. a group of parents and so it maybe the operators of a site like this don't want this questioned because of a conflict of interest, the very orgainizations that put on these constant clinics are paying for advertising here. All I am saying is that I would like to see more free camps clinincs and developmental outings being put on. Why can't the NCAA get behind this and curtail the junkets for coaches and recruiters. doesn't seem to ethical to me thats all. so maybe garbage to you mr nobody, not garbage to others. If you want to pay big bucks for camps and travel teams go ahead, maybe it will pay off for you, maybe it wont? why discourage parents from hearing this point of view.

I agree with itrosy the only way to curtail the money grab is if parents wisenup and stop forking over the dollars. most of the guys posting here are diehard baseball guys like me that have spent countless dollars and many summers traveling around. hoping that it could help lead son to bigger and better things. I am just saying that it would be nice to see more free or less expensive showcases. and in another thread someone mentioned a quiet period for coaches, if that is so why then is there all these coaches at these clinics are they all being paid?

I have seen the fighting that goes on, pretty wild at times. You know we are all in the same boat, some of the dads here have kids off to college and not much to worry about, I have a business that is on the edge, a 201K or less, an equity position that once looked like a failsafe way to college not so sure anymore. so yes I am taking aim at outfits that have their hands out and in my view are part of the brainwashing of parents and kids. as I said NCAA needs to step in and put a charge in the coaches and schools to let them know that this isn't right. as for PG and the others they have every right to charge what they do. I just don't have the money to pay 500 bucks to go, so I guess they will never no if my kid is 10 or an 8. look at North Lawndale basketball bunch of blue collar kids from the same neighborhood going up against schools that recruit and even public magnate schools that in so many words recruit look at jordans kid. hey they get it done. I wonder how many big buck camps those kids go to. these outfits will tell you they rate kids that dont attend their camps do they? and does shelling out the bucks to these travel programs make sense? I don't think so. I will call them all out because when you look at they are all the same and it is a business to them all. look at their flashy web sites and bravado. gimme a break. I like nelson gords comments and respect what he is doiung trying to make a go of it. duncans article was also spot on. I just say to the parents open your eyes a little more and keep the bucks in your wallet.

I will say this 250 bucks times what mr nobody said 175 kids = $43,750.
That will heat these places for centuries. to Tuzi that is some hefty coin my man! I am in the wrong business.
since I have the calculator out 549 bucks times 175 kids = $96,075 that's about what I lost in equity the past 18 months.
sites like these are very important and a major reason for their success, this is their bread and butter kids and their dads like us yearning for that shot. NCAA where are you?

the class outfits and schools will be the ones that find a way to reduce the costs, that could be corporate sponsors or fundraising, just find a way to stop digging into the parents pockets.

I would like to comment if you are spending all this money out of your pocket only for baseball scholarship money, you are setting yourself up for dissapointment.

There have been countless MLB players who have attended BIGTIME schools who only had 30% scholarships. Baseball money is very limited. This isn't football.

Over the years I have spend A LOT of $$$ on baseball. I would probably never recoop it in a 30%NCAA baseball scholarship. If we had to do this again, we would spend every dime of that money again because it was the life experience and time spent with my kid(s)that many, many dads never get to spend with their kid(s). I have memories with both my boys that were priceless. For the past 6 years we haven't been on a "vacation." Our vacations were in GA, FL, & AZ watching basball games.

Get over the $$$. Move to someplace warm then and play catch with your kid(s) on your own. This topic has been visited too death........

These coaches that are flying in from all parts of the country have to be paid for their services for the weekend . I dont know exactly how much they are getting paid but im guessing a large chunk of that 43 grand is getting chewed up right there . Did you think they are doing it for free ? Add in the other miscellaneous costs involved and you should be able to figure out the organizers are not making that huge of a profit .

These coaches do have some restrictions as to what kind / type / how often / etc /etc of contact they can engage in with the players during the " quiet " period . It is all legit --they are working and getting paid .

Exactly how are the parents being " brainwashed " ?
How is this organization putting " pressure " on parents to fork over money ? Please answer these questions if you happen to post again.

I would much rather my kid go to a camp like this one where there are many many schools represented in one place than go to a schools winter camp and pay around $100.00 ? just to have one set of coaches watching .JMO

Most folks out there know there are no guarantees when it comes to baseball scolarships relative to how much $$$ you have spent going to camps , showcases , travel ball , etc . If anyone thinks otherwise - they are in for a surprise . Its all about QUALITY --not quantity . You have to be smart and know how to market your player .

Hizzoner

I can only speak for myself and ive mentioned this on this site before --The reason my kid has played with a top notch high profile team like the Sparks is to play against the highest level of competition possible around the country because that is what makes him go ...not playing solely to try to get a scholarship . That would be the absolute worst reason to play at that level . These kids love the commaraderie and the competition . The whole recruiting process and scholarship business is a positive by product of that . Your comments are way off base by my standards . You dont sound like you are in tune to what is really happening out there.
Do some homework on these issues and get better informed before posting false misleading statements.


To answer your question about whether it has paid off personally for my son --he is absolutely thrilled about his college choice and scholarship offer . If he is happy ..then in my mind it has paid off .

hizoner, for the record, I never catagorized this or any showcase as a "money grab" for anyone. That is for the family who's paying the money to determine.

Personally, I'm with nc42. I've paid money for years while my son plays this game and I've got no regrets. We've got a bond that was partly formed driving to and from tournaments; to and from lessons; to and from practice, and to and from showcases. I wouldn't change a thing if given the chance.

But, to each his own.

If you lost 96k you had about 300k to start with. Most funds lost about 35% of their value. Not too shabby of a portfolio hizhonor.

There are ways to stay in the market and protect it from loss. PM me.

Meanwhile, businesses should be allowed to advertise, market, and sell their products. This board aids people in deciding which of these camps and showcases are best. There are no guarantees. I have heard for years on this board that the best way to go is pick the school you want to go to, then go to their camp. Mr. Nobody made a strong counter argument to that. Now it is up to you to decide.

I know some of the high profile outfits exagerate resumes of the principals and coaches. I checked. Baseball records are public records. My son had good experiences with PBR and Cangelosi. No offers from either. It wasn't their fault. He got seen at Stevenson and made the connection there. There are so many ways to get seen. He was invited to and went to a Central Michigan camp. A couple coaches liked him and wanted him, a couple didn't. They took a pass. The guy who invited him spent an hour on the phone explaining the decision. He didn't have to do that. They were sincere, we went and spent the time and money. It happens. My son moved on. No guarantees.

He plays on a great travel team. Great because of the coach. He teaches the game. The price is actually ridiculously low for what the program offers. They don't play in all the top tournaments like the Sparks and Top Tier, but they do compete against qualtiy teams like the Indy Bulls, Pirates, and others.

There are choices. It is the same as shopping for a TV or car. Look around, do research, make your best guess, and make the best of your choices.

Good luck hizhonor. I just don't think people are bad because they run a business. Now charging for a phony try-out.....

just kidding. those threads are locked for a reason.