Can you teach movement or is it just a natural ability?
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It is a bit of both. Grip, arm angle and applied pressure can induce movement. A kid with long fingers and a loose movement may have a natural tendancy to induce movement.
Movement is a function of physics. It can be taught. Some people learn to throw the way you would teach, so you could say they do it naturally.
There is definitely something about being lefty that affects this. I don't know the physics explanation, I just know from years of observation that it's a fact that lefties have an advantage in this area.
But I also think that things like how you're built, the different sizes of guys' hands or the different lengths of their fingers, all factor in to how the ball is released and the "English" you get on it.
There is definitely something about being lefty that affects this. I don't know the physics explanation, I just know from years of observation that it's a fact that lefties have an advantage in this area.
But I also think that things like how you're built, the different sizes of guys' hands or the different lengths of their fingers, all factor in to how the ball is released and the "English" you get on it.
Midlo- look at how long Pedro Martinez' fingers are. You're absolutely right.
Learn to throw a 2-seamer and you got some real nasty movement. 
The very first time I threw a pitch with a 2 seam grip, the ball took a nose dive right before getting to the batter. I've been a sinkerballer since, with little effort put towards making the ball move and little understanding about why it does.
My son throws a 4 seamer that tails about 6" in on a righty. Throws from a low 3/4. Movement just happened. He has never liked throwing a 2 seam. His 4 seam moves so much, I have never pushed trying a 2 seam.
As already stated it is both. Everyone has their own arm action and slot that is unique. But you can also work on grip, finger position, and finger pressure. Everyone is different but try it out and see how it works for you.
My son holds the ball on one side of the seams (which side I don't know) but the seam is between his two fingers. It appears it is coming right down the meat of the plate but to a righty it busts in on them about 6" and handcuffs them. Ugly and quite effective.
quote:Originally posted by BBB08:
Can you teach movement or is it just a natural ability?
Yes.
movement comes from the wrist. If your wrist is laid back when you start throwing and then you flick it forward while you throw you'll gain movement.
BBB08,
Movement in atmosphere comes from presentation of ball axis.
Axis is the tight “circle of friction’ generated by the spin of the ball.
There are two axis points, one leads and one trails. If you release the ball with the axis’s neutral, meaning equally on the sides horizontally, the ball will just go straight with a little lift that is noticeable with more velocity but is still actually dropping. This is the fastest ball you can throw.
Forward Axis can be imparted with finger pressure (traditional teaching) manipulation or wrist flexion. Wrist flexion (Ulnar and Radial) gives you the best command; movement and power by letting both fingers apply power evenly with both fingers together acting as one. Wrist flexion is a Marshall tenet.
Ulnar flexion performed by turning your hand towards the ball arm side at drive and release will give you the movement towards the ball arm side (classic tailing fastball) by moving the inner axis slightly forward causing higher atmospheric pressure on the inside bottom of the ball making it run to the opposite side of the axis and allows you to pronate the drive and release.
Radial flexion performed by turning your hand towards the glove arm side at drive and release will give you movement towards the glove arm side (classic cutter) by moving the outer axis slightly forward causing higher atmospheric pressure on the outside bottom of the ball making it run to the opposite side of the axis and allows you to pronate the drive and release.
Movement in atmosphere comes from presentation of ball axis.
Axis is the tight “circle of friction’ generated by the spin of the ball.
There are two axis points, one leads and one trails. If you release the ball with the axis’s neutral, meaning equally on the sides horizontally, the ball will just go straight with a little lift that is noticeable with more velocity but is still actually dropping. This is the fastest ball you can throw.
Forward Axis can be imparted with finger pressure (traditional teaching) manipulation or wrist flexion. Wrist flexion (Ulnar and Radial) gives you the best command; movement and power by letting both fingers apply power evenly with both fingers together acting as one. Wrist flexion is a Marshall tenet.
Ulnar flexion performed by turning your hand towards the ball arm side at drive and release will give you the movement towards the ball arm side (classic tailing fastball) by moving the inner axis slightly forward causing higher atmospheric pressure on the inside bottom of the ball making it run to the opposite side of the axis and allows you to pronate the drive and release.
Radial flexion performed by turning your hand towards the glove arm side at drive and release will give you movement towards the glove arm side (classic cutter) by moving the outer axis slightly forward causing higher atmospheric pressure on the outside bottom of the ball making it run to the opposite side of the axis and allows you to pronate the drive and release.
My son also throws froma low 3/4 slot. His 4 seam fastball has always had a ton of movement on it. Low 3/4 guys don't gain so much with a two seam as the over the top hurlers because they get less spin across the seams. all 3/4 arm pitchers get natural movement- some more than others. Over the top guys have to mess around with finger placement and pressure it being less natural to get the spin right enabling a ball to run or tail.
In my sons case his problem (if there were such a thing) is getting "too much" movement and thus making it hard for him to hit the spots he wants to. The advantage though is that between the curveball, change-up and fastball, his pitches move all over the place from one to the next and makes the hitter worried leading to a weak swing.
Try dropping the arm slot slightly, it only takes a couple of inches downawards to get killer movement
In my sons case his problem (if there were such a thing) is getting "too much" movement and thus making it hard for him to hit the spots he wants to. The advantage though is that between the curveball, change-up and fastball, his pitches move all over the place from one to the next and makes the hitter worried leading to a weak swing.
Try dropping the arm slot slightly, it only takes a couple of inches downawards to get killer movement
bbb08
you should have yardbird come talk to your 10 year olds or tell them to just throw the **** ball and have fun.
you should have yardbird come talk to your 10 year olds or tell them to just throw the **** ball and have fun.
Oh that is funny sissor bill. You are right though, he has had alot of fun. He actually is a 15 year freshman. Plays high school baseball, is left handed, and was gunned today throwing 85-86. He just has so much movement on the ball that I wondered if it was natural or if he did pick up some of the back yard coaching everyone has given.
when I first posted this he had never been gunned so now I don't know if it is the movement or velocity helping him. At the Elite 24 tournament one of the coaches from the Baltimore Buzz stated that he couldn't throw a straight ball if he wanted to so it just made me wonder. The best advice is to throw and have fun....you are right!
when I first posted this he had never been gunned so now I don't know if it is the movement or velocity helping him. At the Elite 24 tournament one of the coaches from the Baltimore Buzz stated that he couldn't throw a straight ball if he wanted to so it just made me wonder. The best advice is to throw and have fun....you are right!
