"Muscle Bound"

You could possibly loose some because after you do all the lifting you can't move your body as fast. And that's why I dont like weight training. I hope you are not just doing weight training to improve pitching because if you are then you might as well be in the power lifting contests.

He's right Joe, IMHO! Tightness in the body restricts quickness and speed which is a direct result of building bulk opposed to long lean fast-twitch muscle fibers which produce fast reactions and movements, naturally, using a flexible relaxed body. My .02, Shep

Again, don't paint with too broad a brush. You don't want to avoid ALL weight lifting. But you do need to consult a qualified trainer before you start. Explain to him/her what your sport is and what your goals are, and he/she will design you a program that will help, not hurt.

Clearly there are some lifting exercises that will hinder you as a pitcher. Just as clearly, there are others that will help you if done properly.

I think it is a disservice to tell kids who are old enough to lift (i.e., at least age 14) to avoid weights altogether. You are giving them an excuse not to do some things they absolutely should be doing.

Joe, for pitching, you want to use light weights and long reps. Power lifting or heavy lifting is counter productive to pitching.

Bustamove says:

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You could possibly loose some because after you do all the lifting you can't move your body as fast.

That is totally a broadbrush comment. If you combine weight training and flexibility training, you can increase upper body movement and speed. Pitchers lift all the time. Pro teams give their pitchers off season workout programs. All the ones I have seen have lifting, flexibility, core training, running, throwing, and plyometric training.

Shepster, you ought to know this stuff. I agree with protecting the shoulder. One way to do that is with light weights, band training, cuff work and Jobe exercises.

I am seeing way to many broadbrush strokes in some of the comments being made about training. One should have a well rounded training program designed for whatever, position or sport you do. Ask Jobe or Andrews. Go to ASMI.org and get Dr. Andrews book on aconditioning program for pitchers. They use weights. Here is the link.
ASMI Conditioning for Pitchers

I would like to see some information on not lifting by any reputable source. I.E. Orthopedic Doctors, etc...

I am painting too broad of a picture! Conditioning is a necessity! Bighit15 and Midlo Dad are both correct and I support this philosophy about combination training and so does every othropedic person I've spoken with. Once again, know your conditioning is baseball approved by board specialist before you begin. JonDoyle knows what to do and how to develop the appropriate program that is least evasive to joints and ligaments. peace, shep

Bighit15- What we have to think about is how much strength do we need to throw a 5oz baseball? The answer is not very much and something I learned awhile back is that when the body moves quickly it cannot use the strength so it cannot be utilized therefore it is "useless" strength. I know this will be hard to hear for some of you and that's why I'm on this board is to get some of you educated.

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Bighit15- What we have to think about is how much strength do we need to throw a 5oz baseball? The answer is not very much and something I learned awhile back is that when the body moves quickly it cannot use the strength so it cannot be utilized therefore it is "useless" strength. I know this will be hard to hear for some of you and that's why I'm on this board is to get some of you educated.

Thank you.

Conditioning and strengthening the arm and body is very important to throwing the 5oz. baseball. If you want to do it repeatedly you had better have endurance and strength just so that your mechanics hold up. Why do you think that sprinters are so muscular? As training has gotten better, the times have gone down. In baseball, as training has improved the amount and numbers of guys throwing over 90 has increased. Stronger muscles will move the arm faster as long as flexibility is maintained. Notice I did not say bigger or oversized or muscle bound arms. I said STRONGER.

Your stance on lifting is that it doesn't need to be done. That is as extreme as powerlifting. Neither one is correct. If you had your way, all pitchers would do is play catch every day and throw off of the mound. That is a step back in evolution.

Frankly you have offered nothing to convince me that I can be educated by you at all. You make absolute statements that are meaningless. To say that lifting or crosstraining is useless is just plain uninformed.

I want to learn all i can and work at it very hard. You have stated that you know it all and have only come here to teach us all. That is arrogant and condescending. To one who is arrogant and condescending and a self professed know it all I have no problem with that. Now show me credentials. I don't usually ask that except in cases where someone comes on this site and professes to know it all, offers no proof, and gives what my experience tells me is bad advice.

I have read your profile and it only says you want to help pitchers. As one who is father of a pitcher, I have found no useful advice in your posts. JMO I await your updated profile.

Shepster, I agree. Jon Doyle gives great information and I love to read your posts on players.

Well, How do you stretch your biceps and triceps?

We'll have to agree to disagree on the conditioning aspect then. You wonder why their are more injuries today, I think I know the answer to that and that's what I was trying to get across. I think I'm done on this board and while I tried to educate you guys well let's me just say you people keep looking for those "magic bullets" that will never help pitchers improve. I'm out.

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Well, How do you stretch your biceps and triceps?

Great question Joe91. You cannot. That is why you use light weights and long reps to build endurance and strength. You don't lift for size or to improve how you look in the mirror. You also want to use the whole length of the muscle in the exercise. Too many people lift too high a weight and use improper technique on the exercises. This can cause bulking up and can limit the range of motion. That is what I meant by maintain flexibility.

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You wonder why their are more injuries today, I think I know the answer to that and that's what I was trying to get across.

There are too many injuries because of too many kids being overused too young and too often with too many innings and too many improperly thrown breaking balls too often. According to Dr Andrews. I will take his word for it.

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I think I'm done on this board and while I tried to educate you guys well let's me just say you people keep looking for those "magic bullets" that will never help pitchers improve. I'm out.

OK!

It will ALWAYS go back to training MOVEMENTS, not Muscles...The ability to generate maximum amount of force is the key to developing sport-specific strength, endurance and overall athleticism.

There are very few bad exercises, just bad application.

As a pitcher you should focus on training the lower body (emphasis on posterior chain), core (emphasis on rotational development), scapular region and of course range of motion (both dynamic and static)

As mentioned Jobe exercises and other rotator cuff (external rotation especially)/scapular exercises are key to maintaining a balanced body that is productive as well as injury-proof.

I couldn't agree more that injuries are at an all time high due to overuse and early specialization.

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As a pitcher you should focus on training the lower body (emphasis on posterior chain), core (emphasis on rotational development), scapular region and of course range of motion (both dynamic and static)

Jon, I have a question on the scapular region. Actually a couple. 1. What are some of the best exercises for the scapular region/ 2. How do you recommend dealing with the imbalnce that occurs in the pitcher? My son does scapular exercises, but the repeated motion of pitching gives him an imbalance on his right that is visible. Any suggestions would be helpful.

I am not a weight room rat guy. I beleive in a balanced program. We use the medicine bal in conjunction with the large exercise ball. It is the "core" of our core work.

1. Best exercises for scapular region

-Deadlifts (all variations)
-Power Snatches
-Muscle Snatch (Dumbbells or bands...bands not those wimpy colored tubing everyone uses)
-Face Pull (bands)
-Cuban Press (Dumbbells or bands)
-Bent Over Rows

2. Exercises that allow for single arm use. So utilizing dumbbells or bands on the above exercises or using one arm with a barbell (it canbe a lighter one, does not have to be 45 pounds) on exercises such as the snatch. Of course with the amount of throwing a pitcher needs to do he will always be a bit more developed on his pitching side, you can get pretty good balance by performing the above.

Does this answer everything?

The medicine ball really is great...I wish more athletes would use it.

Thanks Jon Doyle. That helps.

Hell yeah deadlifts!