Is this done occasionally? Any examples of kids that did this? Asking for a friend who plays at an NAIA school.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
One almost never sees a player at a four-year school move up to another four-year school in a higher division.
Most transfers move in the other direction as players try to keep the dream alive and find playing time.
Rarely happens in D3, and usually the player finds a loop hole. I have to believe it would be the same for NAIA, unless the player is a really late bloomer.
So how would a player go through a transfer process to a D1 from this level?
baseballfanatic1 posted:@bishopleftiesdad @swampboy so would it be best for this player to go to a juco first?
If a player thinks he is or will be a D1 talent but can't go D1 right out of high school because of an injury, academic qualifications, late blooming, or other circumstances, a strong JUCO is the best way to keep the option viable.
However, the odds are long. I'm pasting in a post I wrote last year on the general issue of the numbers involved in jumping from JUCO to D1.
------------------------------------------
It can be done, but you need to be aware of the numbers.
There are about 400 JUCO baseball programs in the country. Each turns over half of its roster each year, so there are probably around 6,000 JUCO grads looking to play at four-year schools each year.
There are about 300 NCAA D1 baseball programs. On average, each school may bring in two or three JUCO transfers per year. There is a lot of variation in this average. Some schools bring in a lot more. Some bring in none at all. Some bring in more when their programs have specific needs, such as after a new coach has cleaned house and needs experienced players right away.
If the average is 2.5, that would mean 750 JUCO grads move into D1 ball each year.
Bear in mind, however, that a significant portion of the JUCO players who land at D1 schools are 4-2-4 transfers. These are players who signed with a D1 out of high school, attended D1 for a year, transferred to a JUCO, and now want to return to a D1. These players obviously have a leg up on the competition because they were already recognized as D1 talent the first time they went through the recruiting process.
Let's make two more assumptions (which will put our calculation squarely in SWAG territory). The first assumption is that a third of the JUCO players who make it to D-1 are 4-2-4 players. The second assumption is that only one fourth of the D1 players who transfer to a JUCO hoping to get back to D1 actually succeed.
If these assumptions are in the ball park, it means that of the 6000 JUCO players looking to find a four-year college, 1000 of them will be 4-2-4 candidates and 250 of them will succeed.
That would leave 5000 JUCO grads competing for the remaining 500 D1 opportunities.
To beat those 10:1 odds, a JUCO player must excel, probably in a competitive conference, and must present himself as an immediate "plug and play" game-ready significant contributor to a D1 school.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Best wishes,
@swampboy so other than juco, it's unlikely to make this move up?
Did this friend at the NAIA school last year completely dominate his conference? What does he have to offer a D1 school? Does he have a particular school in mind?
What will that do to him academically? Hopefully his credits are accepted.
He can't look at what everyone else did in the past, its what your skillset your friend has to sell. If he has the skills and stats go for it. Did he have D1 offers out of HS, if not why does he think a year at another school makes him now ready to make the jump and that someone may want him.
baseballfanatic1 posted:Is this done occasionally? Any examples of kids that did this? Asking for a friend who plays at an NAIA school.
Ben Zobrist...Olivet Nazarene to Dallas Baptist
BaseballFanatic1, I agree with the comments that have been made, but I will add that it is possible, although a bit of a longshot.
I know of an example from the sport of football this past season in which a player who started out at an NAIA college transferred to a school in one of the Power 5 conferences (albeit one of the weaker programs in that conference) and actually was named an all-conference player as a DB after his senior year.
@MMM1531 he got 1st team in his conference. Had no D1 offers out of HS, but has developed into a good prospect on mound.
uncoach posted:baseballfanatic1 posted:Is this done occasionally? Any examples of kids that did this? Asking for a friend who plays at an NAIA school.
Ben Zobrist...Olivet Nazarene to Dallas Baptist
Hey I am a big DBU and Zobrist homer. My guess this was greatly impacted by it being DBU's first year in D1. Worked out great for all parties involved however.
BackstopDad32 posted:uncoach posted:baseballfanatic1 posted:Is this done occasionally? Any examples of kids that did this? Asking for a friend who plays at an NAIA school.
Ben Zobrist...Olivet Nazarene to Dallas Baptist
Hey I am a big DBU and Zobrist homer. My guess this was greatly impacted by it being DBU's first year in D1. Worked out great for all parties involved however.
And Ben Zobrist is 35 years old. If he's the first example to come to mind, it's a blue moon event.
baseballfanatic1 posted:@MMM1531 he got 1st team in his conference. Had no D1 offers out of HS, but has developed into a good prospect on mound.
I think the player who develops into a top level P fits under the possible exception here. I'm curious, though. Why is this issue coming up now? It's REALLY late for this coming season. Is he thinking about making the move after next? What year is he? Has he had any dialog with anyone? Does he have a specific school in mind?
cabbagedad posted:baseballfanatic1 posted:@MMM1531 he got 1st team in his conference. Had no D1 offers out of HS, but has developed into a good prospect on mound.
I think the player who develops into a top level P fits under the possible exception here. I'm curious, though. Why is this issue coming up now? It's REALLY late for this coming season. Is he thinking about making the move after next? What year is he? Has he had any dialog with anyone? Does he have a specific school in mind?
I'm sorry I didnt go into too much detail. He's thinking about transferring to a D1 after this upcoming season. So he will be a sophomore this upcoming season. Has a Big 12 school in mind. Not sure if he's had any dialog with anyone, due to rules.
baseballfanatic1 posted:cabbagedad posted:baseballfanatic1 posted:@MMM1531 he got 1st team in his conference. Had no D1 offers out of HS, but has developed into a good prospect on mound.
I think the player who develops into a top level P fits under the possible exception here. I'm curious, though. Why is this issue coming up now? It's REALLY late for this coming season. Is he thinking about making the move after next? What year is he? Has he had any dialog with anyone? Does he have a specific school in mind?
I'm sorry I didnt go into too much detail. He's thinking about transferring to a D1 after this upcoming season. So he will be a sophomore this upcoming season. Has a Big 12 school in mind. Not sure if he's had any dialog with anyone, due to rules.
Yes, there are rules. We need someone like Swamp or Kyle Boddy or Rick at Informed Athlete to clarify regarding any cross-over between NCAA and NAIA.
From there, you can figure out best course of action to determine any possible reciprocal interest.
cabbagedad posted:baseballfanatic1 posted:cabbagedad posted:baseballfanatic1 posted:@MMM1531 he got 1st team in his conference. Had no D1 offers out of HS, but has developed into a good prospect on mound.
I think the player who develops into a top level P fits under the possible exception here. I'm curious, though. Why is this issue coming up now? It's REALLY late for this coming season. Is he thinking about making the move after next? What year is he? Has he had any dialog with anyone? Does he have a specific school in mind?
I'm sorry I didnt go into too much detail. He's thinking about transferring to a D1 after this upcoming season. So he will be a sophomore this upcoming season. Has a Big 12 school in mind. Not sure if he's had any dialog with anyone, due to rules.
Yes, there are rules. We need someone like Swamp or Kyle Boddy or Rick at Informed Athlete to clarify regarding any cross-over between NCAA and NAIA.
From there, you can figure out best course of action to determine any possible reciprocal interest.
That's probably the biggest concern is how to establish connections with the D1 coaches being an NAIA player, even if this player does have the talent.
Best of luck to your friend. Is he playing summer ball with any D1 players? Dropping a hint to a summer teammate or coach could get the ball rolling. Baseball is a small world, there has to be some connection between past teammates to the school of interest. ( I have no idea on the legal side of that, I am sure the NCAA would have some rule against it)
I would think pitchers with a proven track record would have an easier time getting some attention.
I'm pretty sure--Rick can set it straight if I'm not--that NAIA players do not need permission to contact before talking to NCAA schools. That doesn't change the fact that baseball is a small world and attempts to contact NCAA schools will likely get back to the current coach, who may not enjoy being surprised. Prudence and courtesy should govern.
Swampboy is correct - NAIA players don't need permission in advance before contacting coaches at NCAA schools. However, NCAA coaches are required to obtain the e-mailed permission of the athlete's athletic department before they can discuss a transfer with the athlete. So, the NAIA coach will find out pretty quickly after contact is made if the NCAA coach is interested in talking with the athlete.
Just out of curiosity: Is he a pitcher?
I think for a pitcher it is easier if he throws hard. If you throw 86 out of HS and then jump to 93 with some command Schools will probably be interested. Velocity is velocity.
as a Position Player it is much harder to get Attention of higher Levels (unless you hit moonshots regularly) because even a .300+ average against lower Level competition is hard to judge. pitching is easier to judge without a competition Level context.
He is a pitcher. I would say his velo is in the upper 80s right now, with potential to be in the low 90s. Would he have to sit out a year if he transfers?
Upper 80's top end or upper 80's consistently (like 86-89 for 5-6 innings)? I see that a lot of D1 pitchers can get to upper 80's (not all I know). but can't stay there. But there are not a lot who can consistently sit in upper 80's = maybe half the roster can sit in upper 80's and those are the ones that get to pitch most of time. And I would suspect in Big 5 conferences that it is more like 1/2 to 3/4 of pitchers on a team can hit 90. A lot sit upper 80's or at least those that actually get to pitch.
If he's on a baseball scholarship at the NAIA school, he will need to serve a "year in residence" at a Division I university before he can be eligible to play for them. If he has a strong desire to pursue a Division I opportunity, he should consider going to a JUCO now to be a 4-2-4 transfer with two years of eligibility remaining.
Rick at Informed Athlete posted:If he's on a baseball scholarship at the NAIA school, he will need to serve a "year in residence" at a Division I university before he can be eligible to play for them. If he has a strong desire to pursue a Division I opportunity, he should consider going to a JUCO now to be a 4-2-4 transfer with two years of eligibility remaining.
I am glad I read this. I had thought that NAIA and NCAA did not really have rules about switching between them.
chefmike7777 posted:Upper 80's top end or upper 80's consistently (like 86-89 for 5-6 innings)? I see that a lot of D1 pitchers can get to upper 80's (not all I know). but can't stay there. But there are not a lot who can consistently sit in upper 80's = maybe half the roster can sit in upper 80's and those are the ones that get to pitch most of time. And I would suspect in Big 5 conferences that it is more like 1/2 to 3/4 of pitchers on a team can hit 90. A lot sit upper 80's or at least those that actually get to pitch.
He can sit upper 80s throughout 5-6 innings. How can he start having communication with "Big 5" conference schools and its coaches? He has aspirations playing at this level.
baseballfanatic1 posted:chefmike7777 posted:Upper 80's top end or upper 80's consistently (like 86-89 for 5-6 innings)? I see that a lot of D1 pitchers can get to upper 80's (not all I know). but can't stay there. But there are not a lot who can consistently sit in upper 80's = maybe half the roster can sit in upper 80's and those are the ones that get to pitch most of time. And I would suspect in Big 5 conferences that it is more like 1/2 to 3/4 of pitchers on a team can hit 90. A lot sit upper 80's or at least those that actually get to pitch.
He can sit upper 80s throughout 5-6 innings. How can he start having communication with "Big 5" conference schools and its coaches? He has aspirations playing at this level.
Based on the info provided, it sounds like two possible avenues may include...
- try to find a neutral third party, like a pitching instructor or past travel coach that may have some relationship with targeted school and ask if he thinks there may be a match. If so, that person could possibly get a feel from the program if there is anything to pursue. If so, at that point, the player would have to be willing to share with current program that this is a direction he is considering. Hopefully, there is a good relationship with the current school in place.
- contact the target school directly and try to determine if there is any interest whatsoever, explaining that you understand that you must bring the current coach into the loop but didn't want to do so until you found out if there is even possible interest. If so, player can alert current coach and target school can then contact current coach/school. This sounds like it would fit within the guidelines Rick has stated.
This is a dicey situation. Asking around may ultimately get back to your coaches, and that could ruin your relationship, but you also have to do what you have to do. It is definitely a risk though.
I would think a 4 year school would be much more averse to this than a JUCO. I know it's a little late, but why is he not going the JUCO route? Those coaches wouldn't mind at all. They are always looking to move their kids on to 4 year schools. A 4 year school coach wants to keep his players all the way thru. You start looking around and coach hears about it, which he will, he's going to be pissed. And if things don't work out, you may be seeing a bunch of bench time. No one wants a kid on a team where he feels like it's a second choice and wants to get out...