NCAA Bans Composite Bats

Truth be told, and this coming from a pitchers father, I like Aluminum bats in college baseball. I can appreciate the differences between college and pro and the "ting" of the bat means something special.

I fear that bringing wood to college baseball would bring about a plethora of bunting and slow rolling infield base hits, instead of the drama of the faster game made possible through aluminum bats.

As to the NCAA, they're taking your comments under advisement and will get back to you through proper channels after being directed to the proper office and reviewed by the proper committee. They thank you for your concern and want you to know they feel very strongly on the issue, one way or another.

P.S. The NCAA has replied with, "Could you repeat your question please?"

Something that has been bothering me about this whole ban is brought up in the attached article.

In many ways, the NCAA has highlighted the practice and made it even more commonly known. Assuming that high schools don't ban these bats for the 2010 season, I would assume that every HS kid in America is going to be trying to get their hands on one of these bats - and will roll it at once.

The other question in my mind (as the parent of a Juco pitcher) - has there been any consideration at the Juco or NAIA level of following the NCAA ban?

To me there is no going back - they need to be banned at all levels.

I would like to see wood bats from the high school level on.

Wood bats equate to REAL BASEBALL !!!!!

CPLZ: It's funny that you say that you like aluminum better as a pitcher's dad. I like wood better even though I'm a hitter's dad. It's simply a truer game with wood. I'd rather see a little more small ball like bunts and slow rollers than what I see now with the aluminum-bat jam shots that just drop in over the second baseman's head or the lazy flyball homers that should be outs but scrape the back of the fence instead. You find out who the real hitters are with a wooden bat.

As for the "faster" play of an aluminum bat game, I call it "longer." Four-hour 15-13 games are brutal. Give me that two-and-a-half-hour 5-3 game any day. The summer leagues show that college kids can play a pretty good brand of baseball with wood. I hope the composite ban is the first step toward going to wood at the college level. TRHit is right. That's real baseball.

What are the odds the National Federation of State High School Associations ends up following suit and banning these bats before the spring season? I ask that as a parent about to buy a new bat for my son's senior year, and was leaning towards a composite before all this hoopla broke out.

quote:

Truth be told, and this coming from a pitchers father, I like Aluminum bats in college baseball.

Uh oh, looks like this could a rare strain of Stockholm Syndrome called "Eastonitus." It might be time to plan a little intervention for our good friend CPLZ

Seriously though, aside from making some college shortstops adjust to slow rollers and actually start charging ground balls(!) I don't think wood bats would bring any wholesale changes to the college game. There's already a lot of small ball played in the college ranks- nothing new here. Anyone who's watched the summer collegiate game knows that (after the initial adjustment period) the game is extremely well-balanced and very enjoyable. A crisp two hour game is indeed a thing of beauty. The biggest difference IMO would be seen on Sundays and double headers, where metal bats now run roughshod on tired pitching staffs.
As for HS, I share 08's concerns. The guys who provided this "service" in the past will have to look to a new market now. That will logically be HS and JUCO. Unless BATCO stops making the composites altogether, Daddy will buy them, someone will roll them, and players will use them.
Melt the bats

PROP approves committee action on composite bats

Aug 24, 2009 3:43:21 PM


By Greg Johnson
The NCAA News

The NCAA Playing Rules Oversight Panel approved the NCAA Baseball Rules Committee’s recommendation to remove, at least temporarily, composite bats from NCAA competition.

The rules committee proposed the action in July and met again via conference call August 17 after hearing comments from the membership and manufacturers about the recommendation. After considerable discussion, the rules committee concluded that composite bats will not be allowed for the time being.

The committee’s main concern about composite bats is that they are susceptible to performance improvement above standards set by the NCAA, either through normal use or alterations to the bats.

While committee members are not convinced that simple compliance testing of specific bats will solve what they see to be a significant problem in the sport, the committee agreed with a suggestion from the NCAA Baseball Research Panel to seek additional testing to determine if it is feasible to allow composite bats in NCAA play this season.

The research panel met with baseball bat manufacturers August 12 in Indianapolis to explore whether composite bats could be used within NCAA guidelines and parameters.

During the 2009 Division I Baseball Championship, composite bats were selected for ball exit speed ratio (BESR) certification tests. Of the 25 bats tested, 20 failed the official BESR test for current NCAA performance levels. Because all bat designs must pass that test before mass production, the results indicated that the performance of such bats changed thereafter, most likely due to repeated, normal use or intentional alteration.

In the meantime, the NCAA plans to conduct additional testing that will provide the baseball rules committee another opportunity for review. Additionally, the committee is open to providing an opportunity for companies to prove that their bats would meet current NCAA standards regardless of use or tampering.

As for beyond the upcoming season, the baseball research panel is recommending that an Accelerated Break-In (ABI) process be added to the certification process under the new Ball-Bat Coefficient of Restitution (BBCOR) standard to help address the issue of improved performance and further the goal of having all bats in NCAA play remain under the NCAA limit through the life of the bat.

The BBCOR is a method designed to measure the performance of the bat. The ABI is designed to replicate repeated use or intentional alteration of the bat. This process has been used with some success in the certification process for softball bats.

I'm not sure that comparing summer collegiate wood bat leagues, to what you would see in normal collegiate baseball is fair. Leagues like Alaska, Cape Cod, Northwoods, Coastal Plains, are all designed for the upper echelon collegiate player. It's not surprising at that level that the players adapt nicely. I have reservations about the collegiate game at large making the same quality of adjustment to wood. I'm not opposed to the 5-3 game vs. the 13-10 game, but fear the dropoff would be greater than that. I think we may see a plethora of 3-1 and 2-1 games.

Low scoring games are fine, if players are executing...but low scoring games because the players can't execute are brutal.

Faster play I believe is achieved with aluminum because it does more to showcase the fielders talents and speed. It increases the range of SS and 2nd baseman, and shows off the arm strength of 3B. It forces outfielders to have speed to get to gaps and lines to cut off balls and hold baserunners. It doesn't just advantage the hitter, it forces athleticism in the field. That appreciation for the fielders talents and speed, I think will be quite diminished with wood.

CPLZ,
When are you going to admit that a bat company kidnapped you at an early age and that you've bonded?

College baseball "wood" be fine with wood. They'd be playing baseball and it might be a little less exciting if you are a lover of slugfests and balls hit off the handle for clean hits.

Actually, there'd be more appreciation for fielders speed with wood as there would be more balls that could be reached, they'd just be a little further away making for more spectacular plays.

NCAA could easily set the BBCOR specs to match that of wood. If they did, all bats would hit the same regardless of what they're made of.

That is what they should do, but they don't because it would kill the market aimed at parents willing to shell out $400 to gain an advantage for Junior.

I'm in favor of creating a new college division where D1-3 uses wood or wood equivalents and the new DP division uses any technology available that allows spaghetti-wristed emo-jocks to get the ball through the infield.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
CPLZ,
When are you going to admit that a bat company kidnapped you at an early age and that you've bonded?

Okay, Okay...my family owns an aluminum mine in Herzegovinia. We aren't allowed to have ziploc bags in our house, everything gets wrapped in foil.

Can you blame a guy for trying to take care of his family?

quote:

NCAA could easily set the BBCOR specs to match that of wood. If they did, all bats would hit the same regardless of what they're made of.

The reason artificial bats originated was out of a desire to control costs due to breaking.

The problem is, broken bats are part of the game. I love to see a pitcher saw a guy off. There is no ability to do this with metal or composites. So, no artificial bat will ever adequately duplicate wood.

Catfish nailed it!

Folks - get a clue. Some schools (particularily those that use Easton bats) were cheating their *** off. It's called "bat rolling" and it began in men's slow pitch softball. When you "roll" a composite bat it increases the trampoline effect and the ball jumps. Tim Corbin at Vanderbilt (among others) raised the issue, the bats were tested at the CWS and the culprits were discovered.

All you have to do is look at this website among many others...
http://www.worldshottestbats.com/


I just wish the NCAA would call a spade a spade and quit using euphenisms like "ABI" --- face it: some schools were cheating. If you are intentionally altering the equipment to improve performance it is called cheating!

The only long term solution is return to wood. But it won't happen because the metal bat companies own the coaches --- big school coaches are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to use their bats. As usual, money corrupts the process.

Anything but wood after high school is ridiculous. Might as well be watching a 13-10 slow-pitch softball game.. at least then I can enjoy a cold one to help ease the misery.

Metal bats reward only the junkball pitchers and dive hitters, and very few of them adapt at the next level. Ever wonder why their numbers drop off in the Summmer? The hitters never learned to control the sweet spot and the pitchers never learned to paint the inside black with a real fastball. Just not baseball, IMHO.

Natural- you nailed it. Some would be considered cheaters if they intentionally "rolled" or tampered with the composite bats to break them down faster, thus creating the larger trampoline effect. One of son's friends got a new bat for his D1 team. The bat rep told him to run over it with his truck to break it in! True story. He chose not to run it over. But we saw him hit monster home runs as a senior in hs with his broken down composite bat. Little did we know then how effective that old bat was and why.

Wonder if we'll see HR numbers come down this year in college? Funny how some of those players didn't hit many home runs this summer with wood.

Hard to believe you'd argue that the collegiate game would suffer without metal.

You know, they used to play college ball with wood ....

My son played in many 16-18 yo wood bat tournaments this summer. After a game or two you don't even think about whether they are using wood or metal bats. It's just baseball. Some ball are hit hard, some aren't just like metal games.

IMO wood is the way to go. To have a 6'4", 235# muscled 22 yo hitting with aluminum/composite is ridiculous. I don't see what he is proving by hitting a 320' pop up HR. If a 14 yo can hit a 350' HR what do you expect a college monster to do. The 430' HR with metal will still be a 390-400' HR with wood. If it's caught on the warning track, oh well, get used to it because the next level is even tougher. If a player can hit with metal he probably can hit with wood, just not as far.

To me there is just no logic to using metal in college. But when was the last time logic got in the way of profit!!

fillsfan


It does not necessarily follow that a player who can hit with aluminum can hit with wood. I have seen it too many times with HS kids who come to play with us--for some it takes time to adapt and adjust --for many other they never adjust or adapt---the good hitters can make the adjustment but the average HS hitter in many cases cannot

TR,

I agree with you, I should have said good hitter.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Hard to believe you'd argue that the collegiate game would suffer without metal.

You know, they used to play college ball with wood ....

You know, we used to get to work on horseback...

I did argue it, and I'd be much more interested in hearing your counter rather than your disbelief. Actually, as well thought out and presented as you normally are, it's hard to believe that that's all you came up with.

I have an appreciation for the differences between college and pro and fail to see why people cast those differences as a negative. Different isn't bad, different is different.

If baseball were like basketball, where college is treated as the minor leagues, the argument for wood would be much more compelling. However, to allow college to stand apart, without comparison to any other level, is part of what makes it unique. Without that uniqueness, it would then lag behind in public interest as minor league baseball would be a notch ahead for quality of ball. By using aluminum, the college game is unlike any other.

Sure, a little fister off the handle that would have broken wood but drops between the RF and 2b for a hit is different. But to think that's bad is to ignore that both teams hit with the same tools, and aluminum doesn't even the playing field for teams...the better team usually still wins. Nothing is diminished by using aluminum bats. Pitchers still have to hit their spots, fielders still have to pick it and gun it, hitters still have to swing it and run.

My appreciation for the college games doesn't wane because the tools are different from pro baseball, it's enhanced.

For those who want to say, "it's not real baseball", then what is real baseball? How far back do we go to find "real baseball"? There's been more changes than aluminum over the years...how about soft wound balls, no outfield fences, three fingered gloves, spitballs? Are those, "real baseball"?

I'm a traditionalist who prefers the game played with wood bats. I love both the sound of a broken bat as well as the crack of a perfectly struck line drive.

Having said that, I don't have a problem with the use of "non-wood" bats so long as the performance of these bats is kept reasonably close to that of a wooded bat. When the performance gets too out of whack, then the game is fundamentally changed and something needs to be done. Think back to the college games before BESR - what a mess.

Even with regulation, technology can change the game - and the regulators need to be constantly on the lookout for places where technology needs to be controlled. Look at what has happened with golf where technology has changed the game to the point where the skills required to play the game are no different. Golf courses are forced to add length - and yet the game is still changed. Where once a player would be hitting a 3 iron approach shot on a hole, now they are hitting a far easy 7 or 8 iron. Golf authorities are attempting to control both the ball and the club - with limited success.

Coming back to baseball, composite bats which initially meet the performance specs, have been proven to no longer be in compliance after a period of time. In my opinion, just as a baseball is thrown out of a game once it has become scuffed or out of round, a bat should be thrown out once it no longer complies with the specification. Since this can't be practically done at the field, the only option is to ban bats which have this improvement over time feature.

As for bats which have been artificially broken in (e.g. rolled or run over by a truck), that is cheating - just as corking a wood bat or shaving the inside of an aluminum bat is cheating in my mind. Since there is no way to prevent this cheating other than by banning the bats, then the bats have to go.

CPLZ,

I agree with you.

The college game would turn into...runner on, bunt him over and hope for a 1 out and/or 2 out hit. No thanks!

So....do any of you college dads have any broken in composite 33/30 bats your son can't use any more? My kid is heading into high school so he will still be able to use it for a couple of years!!


In all seriousness I always thought that the expensive bats only had a finite # of hits in them and would lose their pop over time. I didn't like him using it in bp or letting too many others use it in games...all this time I should have been letting them beat on it to make it come alive!!

I have heard (from our East Cobb Coach) that the composite bats are out and that Georgia High School will follow next year. He said the composite handles are ok.

CPLZ: First of all, I'm glad to see you come clean about your family's aluminum mine holdings. That explains a lot.

But I really do believe there's not much difference between a summer league game and a college game in terms of level of play. And in the summer leagues, you still see plenty of 6-3 or 8-5 types of scores. They're not all 2-1. You just see far fewer of the 12-10 slugfests. To me, baseball is built around pitching and defense, and it takes the best hitters to beat that. There's really nothing like a crisply-played 3-2 game where a key hit really means something. Now don't get me wrong, I love to see the ball leave the yard as well, but I like knowing it has more to do with the swing and pitch recognition of a hard-working hitter than the product of technology (especially if it's being enhanced by guys that might be cheating to make it even better).

College baseball will never lose what makes it great. It would survive just fine without aluminum bats. I guess the biggest reason most people on here would rather go back to wood is because they see how much a hot bat can alter the game.

Let's pull the discussion down from the elite level for a moment. One of my sons played D3 and D2 ball, with metal/composite bats. In the summer he played Connie Mack level ball with wood. The players at the Connie Mack level are mostly current D2 and D3 players and a smattering of former D1 players. Certainly not the cream of the crop we see in the Cape League or even the NECBL. The Connie Mack games were far more enjoyable to watch. Because of the fact that fewer runs are scored, the importance of defense, baserunning, hitting behind the runner, pitching, etc. are magnified. That does not mean that there weren't plenty of runs scored. There were. And there were also a number of very well played 1-0, 2-1 and 3-2 games. The same is true, by the way, for the wood bat tournaments my younger son has played in over the last couple of summers and falls.

If you like offense, go with metal. If you like baseball, wood is by far the superior choice.

For what it is worth, my son played in a woodbat league this summer with a bunch of other JUCO, D3 and a smattering of D1 and D2 players.

Looking at the league summary, 677 runs scored in 70 games an average of just under 10 runs a game.

His California JUCO League on the other hand, had a total of 140 games played with 2765 runs scored - an average of nearly 20 runs a game.

Personally I preferred the summer league games as a spectator. The baseball was a blast to watch and the biggest difference was when some one hit a dinger, it was really crushed.

The high scoring, low scoring game does not have that much to do with the bat.
As much as good pitching, versus bad pitching has on the game.
Or good hitters, versus bad hitters.

Keep the ball up, get hit.

A good batter will hit a bad pitch.

EH

CPLZ, I have nothing against progress. But metal bats don't represent progress, and it stains the game IMHO. Kind of like the difference between real wrestling and the WWF.

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Kinda' like...



Compared to...






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The traditionalist logic doesn’t really hold water. The game is ever changing. It used to be called Rounders and played by schoolgirls.

If you want to call yourself a traditionalist then throw away the glove, facemask, helmet, shinnies and the athletic cup and squat behind the plate and catch a game bare handed and just for fun lose the backstop and make the foul territory behind you live and in play. Play with a single tobacco stained ball for a whole game and use stick-like bats made wholly of wood that must not exceed 2 ½ inches in diameter and 42 inches in length. And run bases that are canvas bags filled with a soft material and painted white that start and end at a Home Base of white marble or white stone, twelve inches square.

How about this for a strike zone: "All balls delivered by the pitcher, delivered from below the pitchers shoulder, which are not within the fair reach of the striker, such as balls pitched over the striker's head, or on the ground in front of home base, or pitched over the head of the batsman, or pitched to the side opposite to that which the batsman strikes from, or which hit the striker (There was no HBP.) while he is standing in his proper position, shall be considered unfair balls, and must be called when delivered." The first pitch to every batter didn’t count. All of that happened from 45 feet away from the Home Base and from inside the pitchers box.

It is not just about the equipment or the field. The players are bigger, stronger and better trained from a much younger age.

If you were really a traditionalist you would embrace the changes that are traditionally part of the game. I played my high school career with wood and college career with aluminum and the game is the game and my job as a player and a coach are to hone my ability to make adjustments when necessary. When first introduced, aluminum bats were heralded for being the solution to the safety issue of broken and splintered bats that flew dangerously through the baseball infield. Who'd-a thunk?

Welcome to the HSBBW tumblebug. You make some very good points about change, and in particular the one about players making adjustments.
I'm no traditionalist. However, the gold standard in baseball is still the pros, and last time I checked the big boys still swing lumber. Until MLB changes the basic tool that is used to initiate offense in the game, those "stick-like bats made wholly of wood that must not exceed 2 ½ inches in diameter and 42 inches in length," I'll have to disagree with you on what we should tolerate for change.

Thanks for the welcome.

I really don’t see the logic in the MLB response either. A kid starts in baseball and the first thing they have to do is wear tennis shoes and hit a mush ball off a tee with a 2 ¼ diameter bat on a field that isn’t much better than a cow pasture with throw down bases. The next year he gets a pair of rubber cleats and the coach pitches the same mushy ball to his team but the bases are anchored. The next year they are keeping score and the kids are pitching to each other but there is still no bunting and no stealing and no lead-offs. The next year they add bunting stealing and play-offs. At the next level they get a 2 5/8 diameter bat, they get to lead off, pick the runners and they get to wear metal cleats on a 60/90 field. The next step they have a coach that does the job for a living, there are no pitch count limits and they get to play for their high school. At the next level they play nine innings, see real curveball and velocity and compete over a much bigger area. And finally they play nationally, get paid to play, and they have to use wood to preserve the records of the game.

Every step of the way there are the rights of passage that hallmark their arrival at the next level. If you swing wood, you are a professional. It is an honor to become a part of the history of the game. The mandatory wood bat means you have arrived. They earned it. I see no need to go back and cheapen the accomplishment.

Again your argument makes sense up to a point. Kids emulate their heros, and nowhere is this phenomenon more apparent than in baseball. Your point of where the transition to wood has to occur is arbitrary. In reality it occurs for most players during the summer months of their HS years. For others it starts even earlier. I bought my kid his first wood bat when he was 10- he still has it! Players use wood to measure up to their idols, not because they have to preserve anything.
If they made wood bats mandatory at the same time they started leading off bases, players would be fine with it, they would honor their idols by using the same brands and models.
Bottom line, it needn't be easier for kids to play the game of baseball. Kids will compete just like you did when you were young, as long as it's fair.

Welcome Tumblebug- glad to see you posting here. Have enjoyed your posts on rivals.com. I look forward to reading your thoughts here. This is a great place and always lots to learn from all sorts of posters.

You realize metal bats have been used in NCAA since 1974? The ban is on composites. Where there problems before with just -3 alum bats?

Yes. They don't break like they should when you bore a fastball in on the fists!