NCAA loses yet more credibility... Tournament Selection Committee version

This is a story as old as time.  It happens in every business/country.  Why would anyone expect the NCAA to be any different?

Who deserved the 8 slot more than FSU?

Why can't the NCAA baseball selection committee go from 64 teams to 68 teams like they do in NCAA basketball tournament because it solved so many issues and criticisms.....    Yes, that was tongue in cheek for some of our more serious posters.

While we may not like who or how these teams were selected, I really do love the regional, super-regional, World Series format.   The NCAA did hit a homerun years ago with this format.  The NCAA giveth and the NCAA taketh away.

There are some really great match ups this year.   In conference play, some lower seeded teams got hot at the right time and I'd be pretty nervous if I'm a #1 seed such as Clemson, Oklahoma or UNC.   https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/baseball/d1/2024

As always, JMO.

Lamar and College of Charleston were just robbed by the committee.   Both of those teams had resumes better than some of the teams that were included in the tournament only because they had a voice on the Selection committee.   Coastal Carolina finished 7th in their conference and didn't even play the top two teams in the Sunbelt (Louisiana Lafayette and Southern Miss). 

i think FSU is deserving of the 8 spot.  of all the cutline decisions, i think that is the most justified. 

I feel like they didn’t even try to hide it. Lots of teams  screwed and lots of kids robbed. The committee should be unaffiliated members.
I wondered who would say it out loud

@GloFisher posted:

As if Realignment, transfer portal, NLI, biological males competing vs females wasn't enough... Now the Tournament Selection Committee rewards all seven of the ten represented schools that were on the bubble.  That is wrong.  Florida State received the final top-eight spot. East Carolina received the final host. Florida, Kansas State, Coastal Carolina, and Indiana were among the final teams in the field.  Six opportunities were on the cutline and all six fell on the side of committee member representation.  More deserving teams were disadvantaged/left out.

Is the CAA usually a one-bid league? I know that answer can change year by year, but in general, it does seem off that the conference tourney champ gets a two-seed (high seed), and Charleston and/or NorthEastern don't get looks.

I have picked the team I wish to see win it all, and that is High Point.  Let's go Panthers.  Easy path in regional with Clemson, Vany, and Coastal Carolina in bracket.  That is sarcasm.  I love a big underdog!

You have to win the games that matter. If you're not P5 that means your conference tournament.

@Ster posted:

Lamar and College of Charleston were just robbed by the committee.   Both of those teams had resumes better than some of the teams that were included in the tournament only because they had a voice on the Selection committee.   Coastal Carolina finished 7th in their conference and didn't even play the top two teams in the Sunbelt (Louisiana Lafayette and Southern Miss).

This is 100% correct. The committee is a joke and a number of teams have a legitimate beef. But none more than Lamar & College of Charleston. Lamar won 44 games (second most in D1), won the Southland Conference (which is better than most of you know), and swept Big12 champ OU on the road. To leave them out is indefensible. College of Charleston also won their conference and have a great case. Their HC Chad Holbrook was fired at South Carolina for going 13-17 in SEC play. This year 5 SEC teams that had 13-17 records in SEC play got NCAA tournament bids. That’s good enough to get in now but not good enough for Holbrook to keep his job a few years ago ?!? What a messed up deal.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

Is the CAA usually a one-bid league? I know that answer can change year by year, but in general, it does seem off that the conference tourney champ gets a two-seed (high seed), and Charleston and/or NorthEastern don't get looks.

I have picked the team I wish to see win it all, and that is High Point.  Let's go Panthers.  Easy path in regional with Clemson, Vany, and Coastal Carolina in bracket.  That is sarcasm.  I love a big underdog!

I guess it probably changes year over year with regards to how many teams get in the tournament.  CAA is easily considered one of the top 10 conferences for baseball, so you would expect more than a tournament champion getting into the NCAA tournament.  Northeastern, Charleston, UNC-Wilmington all had RPI 42 or better.  All three of those teams played one another in their regular season with CofC winning the head to head series against both UNCW and NE.   It is a real headscratcher that CofC and NE were left out.  Especially when you look at their resumes compared to some teams that got in.  Indian, Kansas State, Coastal Carolina?  Of course those three were teams that all had representation on the the selection committee.   

I did see a twitter post in which someone mentioned ESPN possibly being involved.   CAA is not affiliated with ESPN, but rather Flo-Sports with regards to television rights.   I honestly don't believe that this mattered nearly as much as the teams that all got selected over Charleston, Lamar, Northeastern all had AD's on the selection committee. 

I have no idea how much ESPN influences baseball (I would imagine they do), but they were actively involved with influencing the football committee.

CofC deserved a bid.  no question.  How does the committee justify giving UNCW a 2 seed and leaving CofC out?  doesn't make sense. UCONN, who I think deserved a bid with a very strong SoS, won their regular season but went 2 and out in their tourney.  Northeastern beat them twice, had a strong SoS and had a higher RPI. CofC won their league and went to conf tournament final.   It's tough for Northern teams... Northeastern played 20 home games.. so i was happy to see UConn in . It would be great to see the committee reward more northern teams though.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I have no idea how much ESPN influences baseball (I would imagine they do), but they were actively involved with influencing the football committee.

yea... I don't know if ESPN had influence of not with this committee.  ESPN does air the NCAA baseball tournament so, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them voicing some opinion on who they want in the tournament.  That would likely mean that they want as many SEC and ACC teams as possible (they know which regions of the country are tuning into the baseball tournament), and they want teams that are from conferences that they already partner with. 

The other opinion that I have seen is that CAA teams are hurt by only being aired on Flosports.com and the committee can't watch any of those games because they only watch the ESPN broadcast.   I don't buy this argument because I seriously doubt any of these ADs that make up the selection committee are using their free time to watch college baseball all around the country.   The selection committee has to use metrics to make qualified decisions on these teams.  Strength of schedule, RPI, common opponents, Quad 1 and 2 quality victories, records, power rankings etc.... looking at those metric standards there is no way that teams like Kansas State, Coastal Carolina, Indiana, James Madison, and even Florida had metrics that earned their positions in the tournament over Lamar, College of Charleston, and Northeastern.  If you took the names off the front of the jerseys then Lamar, Charleston and Northeastern would have been in the tournament and they would have likely been 3 seeds at the least.  Charleston and Lamar could have made an argument based upon metrics that they would have been a 2 seed.

Expanding the tournament will solve some of these issues, but how can you do it?  anyone have or have heard of any creative ways to do so? obviously pitching becomes an issue with play-in games.

Lamar was 65 RPI. Charleston was 0-3 against P5. Northeastern was 0-2 in their conference tournament. None of them obviously deserved a bid over P5 teams with much bigger fan bases.

Rather than expanding the tournament, D1 should be split. It makes little sense for NEC and SWAC teams to be in the same tournament as SEC and ACC teams.

@auberon posted:

Lamar was 65 RPI. Charleston was 0-3 against P5. Northeastern was 0-2 in their conference tournament. None of them obviously deserved a bid over P5 teams with much bigger fan bases.

Rather than expanding the tournament, D1 should be split. It makes little sense for NEC and SWAC teams to be in the same tournament as SEC and ACC teams.

You bring new information to my attention.   I had no idea that the Selection Committee used fan base size as a metric for determining inclusion into the NCAA baseball tournament.   

there were only a few P5 teams that were on the bubble that were in discussion here.. and they had their pimples too.  btw Northeastern was 7-3 vs P5 teams.  Fan bases are certainly important.. especially for hosts, but really should not be considered in the selection process..  There are many excellent non-P5 teams out there...  do some work.. 

not to mention Lamar swept OU.

@Ster posted:

You bring new information to my attention.   I had no idea that the Selection Committee used fan base size as a metric for determining inclusion into the NCAA baseball tournament.   

You beat me to the punch

How about Indiana State......#10 RPI.....doesn't get to host (deserved to over ECU) and then is sent to  Kentucky for the Regional.   I get it that they consider travel when selecting where teams go, but there is Indiana State is basically being considered to be the #31 team in the tourney based on the way they were seeded.

Why shouldn't the size of the fan base come into consideration if deciding between two teams with no strong differentiation otherwise? The tournament is televised entertainment. Teams from mid-tier conferences that couldn't even win their conference aren't interesting to a broader audience.

Bottom line is every D1 team that makes their conference tournament has the opportunity to go to Omaha if they win and keep winning. That's plenty fair enough and much better than FBS where half of the teams know before the season even starts that even if they win all of their games they won't make the CFP.

Totally agree on Indiana State. They deserved better.

@auberon posted:

Why shouldn't the size of the fan base come into consideration if deciding between two teams with no strong differentiation otherwise? The tournament is televised entertainment. Teams from mid-tier conferences that couldn't even win their conference aren't interesting to a broader audience.

Bottom line is every D1 team that makes their conference tournament has the opportunity to go to Omaha if they win and keep winning. That's plenty fair enough and much better than FBS where half of the teams know before the season even starts that even if they win all of their games they won't make the CFP.

This committee was a joke.  It is not a coincidence that every bubble team that had a committee member got in.  I mean at least try to guard against the political argument a tiny bit.  Teams that deserved an opportunity did not get in and teams like Florida, who had a great strength of schedule but just lost a ton of those difficult games, did. Take away the argument and make up a committee of baseball guys that aren't affiliated with a school.  It's not hard.

Florida was 30 RPI. No team with a higher RPI got left out. That doesn't look like human bias to me if the computer agrees.

I guess they can have an NIT, right?  Like what basketball does

I had decided not to post in this topic, then I decided that I had some thoughts to share, changed my mind not to, but here I am.

For those that are not aware, my son is a coach at Florida. I don't take what's said personally, plus I do understand that not everyone is familiar with how it  works. There is also a new metric that was used, KPI. I still am not sure about how it works.

Lamar and College of Charleston were not robbed. They would have had to win their conference championships to move forward. They did not have low enough RPI, SOS, or non SOS. Compare that with Coastal's metrics. And then finally, there has to be an open spot for a team to slip in. I am not sure why EVERY team does not have representation if they were to end up on the bubble.

No argument that Florida had a tough year, and agree not enough wins.  Maybe it was hindsight or pre season intuition but there was no way Florida would repeat last year's success. Too many missing pieces this year and too many injuries.

But yes with SOS at 1, NC SOS at 21 and an acceptable RPI they got thru. I would also like to mention that Florida won 5 of their SEC weekends. That's not an easy task.

Many years ago, Georgia Tech, one of the top programs at that time, paid a heavy price from the NCAA for not scheduling a more challenging non conference schedule.

That changed the game.

And yes, teams have to meet certain criteria to host a regional. If I remember correctly Kentucky and Indiana State had issues last season.

FWIW, Chad Holbrook did not get fired from USC because he lost more games than he won. He had been a subject of discussion on hsbbw many years ago.

auberon..  well if the computer agrees, what was Indiana's RPI vs Charleston, or Northeastern?  Bias there? or Kansas st's RPI vs TCU?  Bias there? 

I think most everyone sees the definite bias, unless their team benefited. D1 baseball seemed very shocked by some of the decisions.

IMO, the D1 baseball staff are huge contributors to the part of the problem. They don't like where it's going but they keep those stories coming on a daily basis.

Not saying RPI is the be all, end all, but it is good for spot checking whether something egregious happened. RPI 35+ is a mix of teams that got in and teams that didn't, exactly as you'd expect when there are 34 at-large bids. Did Indiana benefit from being in the Big Ten? Of course. Does anyone seriously think the CAA is stronger than the Big Ten top to bottom? Charleston and Northeastern knew there was a good chance that the CAA would be one of the 19 conferences where only the tournament winner got in, and unfortunately for them they didn't win when it mattered.

I think each team's case has merit... so taking individually, you can make the argument that the committee did a good job.  The issue that we are discussing is that all seven that were on the cutline that had representation in the room went their way.  That is not happenstance.  As for D1baseball, i disagree.  I think they do a great job of promoting the sport, highlighting players, and providing in depth coverage on everything College baseball. You may disagree with their opinion, I often do, but on this issue, i think they are right.  The evidence supports them.  As for Florida's case, I will say this.. i do not think they had a great season and i dont think they deserved to make the tournament. that having been said, there is not one team out there that would want them in their bracket as a 3 seed.  That says something.  And Jac and his teammates will be fun to watch.  TPM, best of luck to your son and to all the players out there that will be competing. I think its time to end this discussion and get ready to watch some baseball. 

@GloFisher

Thank you.

I have been a fan of D1Baseball for personal reasons for many, many years. I feel that someone  went way overboard last week in a public forum and it wasn't necessary. I realize that people in general are passionate about baseball but sometimes you have to remain neutral. Most coaches do things for the right reasons. One thing you don't do is throw any freshman  arm without a full weeks rest. I don't know much about representation in the room. Haven't been able to talk to son much.  But I am pretty sure viewership and attendance played a big part in the decision.

As did Jac Gaglianone.

And I know you’ll disagree, but viewership, attendance, and Jac Caglione shouldn’t have anything to do with whether or not a team gets in. I do agree that no one would want the draw. They are a talented group but the criteria everyone was judged on was not a level field.

Chill, I was kidding. Glofisher brought up watching Jac.

BTW, it was noted that ISU did not recieve a bid because of the yearly event they have committed to years ago.

He isn’t the only one, it’s a pretty common opinion that he was a big factor.

Florida, Indiana, Coastal Carolina, Oregon, and UConn all open the tournament with wins. Not a bad start for the teams that supposedly didn't deserve to be there.

auberon.  you are right.  you may have missed a few teams, or the point of this whole discussion,  but who cares. the committee nailed it!  and all the P5 with big followings crushed it. 

There was a year we did not make it in the tournament. Ole Miss got the last spot over us - very few people thought they deserved it. They won the whole thing that year. I'm not saying it's right but there may be some of that - they can make a run at this - in the thought process.

That being said Duke not hosting was crazy - especially with the road win over EC.

We won 35 games this year. Beat 4 tournament teams. Did not get a sniff at an at large because we didn't win our conference. Second year in a row

Why not an NIT for baseball?