NCAA, NAIA, NJCAA....Divisions? Please enlighten me

A great resource that I have found (maybe from a link here years ago)  is http://web1.ncaa.org/onlineDir/exec2/sponsorship .  This shows all NCAA member colleges and what sports they offer & what Division each of the colleges belong to.

NCAA Division I-A & NCAA Division I-AA = How are these different?
These used to be sub-divisions / classifications of D1 schools as it pertained to football.  They are now called FBS & FCS (Football Bowl & Football Championship schools).  Bigger schools usually fall into the FBS category & FCS smaller.  As far as baseball is concerned it's just a D1.

NAIA Division II = Is this what people call a D2 school?
No.  NAIA is a governing body much like NCAA is a governing body.  When most people say a D2 school, they are referring to a NCAA Division 2 school.

NJCAA Division I = Is this a Juco?
Yes

Is it possible to have a D1 baseball team but a D2 Football team? Or is the division of the school the same across all sports?
No

I believe a waiver is required to be at different levels in different sports. Hopkins is a D1 lacrosse powerhouse and D3 in everything else.

RJM posted:

I believe a waiver is required to be at different levels in different sports. Hopkins is a D1 lacrosse powerhouse and D3 in everything else.

Thanks RJM - wasn't 100% sure and didn't have any examples...

Just to add.  Each one of the organizations listed is their own governing body as phanatic stated.  

NCAA has divisions I, II & III and are all 4 year schools

NAIA presumably has different divisions as well (didn't know that until I read your post). They are 4 year schools as well

NJCAA stands for National Junior College Athletic Association and has various levels as well.  They are all 2 year schools.

Each body has their own governing rules.  So, the transfer rules you always hear about are generally relating to NCAA institutions.  There really are no rules regarding transferring between governing bodies, other than admission rules.  The twist would come in you attended an NCAA school, went to NAIA or NJCAA and wanted to come back to NCAA.  

And as RJM stated, there are situations that would allow say a NCAA DII school to have a sport playing at a DI level.  I don't know the rules surrounding that, but it does happen.

Wow...just read something I have never read on HSBBW, although I am sure it is on here somewhere in the archives.

NAIA LIMITS ON FINANCIAL AID
Each sport has an overall limit on the amount of financial aid it can award as full or partial grants to students in that sport. For example, the overall limit in baseball is 12. Baseball scholarships can be awarded to any number of students (for example, 1 full scholarship, 10 half awards and 24 quarter awards) as long as the combined total does not exceed 12. Limits on the total amount of aid that can be given to varsity athletes in each sport: Academically gifted students can be exempted from these limits if they meet grade or test score criteria established by the NAIA. Aid to students who play at the junior varsity level does not count in the overall limits.

Um...doesn't that make it sound like they can have WAY more than 11.7 scholarships as long as only 12 complete scholarships are named to Varsity?  Am I reading that right?

CaCO3Girl posted:

Wow...just read something I have never read on HSBBW, although I am sure it is on here somewhere in the archives.

NAIA LIMITS ON FINANCIAL AID
Each sport has an overall limit on the amount of financial aid it can award as full or partial grants to students in that sport. For example, the overall limit in baseball is 12. Baseball scholarships can be awarded to any number of students (for example, 1 full scholarship, 10 half awards and 24 quarter awards) as long as the combined total does not exceed 12. Limits on the total amount of aid that can be given to varsity athletes in each sport: Academically gifted students can be exempted from these limits if they meet grade or test score criteria established by the NAIA. Aid to students who play at the junior varsity level does not count in the overall limits.

Um...doesn't that make it sound like they can have WAY more than 11.7 scholarships as long as only 12 complete scholarships are named to Varsity?  Am I reading that right?

That's what I would read into that...but why would a coach use his budget on JV players?

Phanatic posted:

RJM posted:

I believe a waiver is required to be at different levels in different sports. Hopkins is a D1 lacrosse powerhouse and D3 in everything else.

Thanks RJM - wasn't 100% sure and didn't have any examples...

Most D1 hockey schools are lower-division in everything else. 

Matt13 posted:

Phanatic posted:

RJM posted:

I believe a waiver is required to be at different levels in different sports. Hopkins is a D1 lacrosse powerhouse and D3 in everything else.

Thanks RJM - wasn't 100% sure and didn't have any examples...

Most D1 hockey schools are lower-division in everything else. 

Not most, some. Hockey probably has more crossovers than over sports. As lacrosse grows in popularity it will probably have more than the usual number of crossovers.

Matt13 posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Wow...just read something I have never read on HSBBW, although I am sure it is on here somewhere in the archives.

NAIA LIMITS ON FINANCIAL AID
Each sport has an overall limit on the amount of financial aid it can award as full or partial grants to students in that sport. For example, the overall limit in baseball is 12. Baseball scholarships can be awarded to any number of students (for example, 1 full scholarship, 10 half awards and 24 quarter awards) as long as the combined total does not exceed 12. Limits on the total amount of aid that can be given to varsity athletes in each sport: Academically gifted students can be exempted from these limits if they meet grade or test score criteria established by the NAIA. Aid to students who play at the junior varsity level does not count in the overall limits.

Um...doesn't that make it sound like they can have WAY more than 11.7 scholarships as long as only 12 complete scholarships are named to Varsity?  Am I reading that right?

That's what I would read into that...but why would a coach use his budget on JV players?

Let me put this another way, is it possible (if the school could swing it) that a NAIA Head Coach can have 24 kids playing Varsity, each with 50% scholarships....and then have 24 kids playing JV each with 50% Scholarships?  I mean if the 12 only counts for Varsity would the JV squad scholarships count at all?  Maybe this school can say "If you play baseball for us every player gets a 50% scholarship"......wouldn't that be cool?

1st of all, no college team at any level will carry a roster of only 24.  So, I think that would be unrealistic.

2ndly, the way I read the NAIA statement is that this refers to all aid given to players.  This includes academic money and I'm sure need based aid.  So, the baseball team isn't losing anything by JV players getting academic money or need based aid.  

Honestly, I'm a little surprised.  Thought NAIA had more money available.  12 scholarships including athletic, academic and need is not a lot.  Of course, it also says that if you meet certain criteria, you can get more academic money that doesn't go towards the baseball limit.  All the more reason to make academics a priority.

And for the record CaCO3Girl, the 11.7 only pertains to NCAA DI.  I know NCAA DII the limit is 9.  NCAA DIII gives no athletic money.  And, obviously, things are different in NAIA and NJCAA.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Wow...just read something I have never read on HSBBW, although I am sure it is on here somewhere in the archives.

NAIA LIMITS ON FINANCIAL AID
Each sport has an overall limit on the amount of financial aid it can award as full or partial grants to students in that sport. For example, the overall limit in baseball is 12. Baseball scholarships can be awarded to any number of students (for example, 1 full scholarship, 10 half awards and 24 quarter awards) as long as the combined total does not exceed 12. Limits on the total amount of aid that can be given to varsity athletes in each sport: Academically gifted students can be exempted from these limits if they meet grade or test score criteria established by the NAIA. Aid to students who play at the junior varsity level does not count in the overall limits.

Um...doesn't that make it sound like they can have WAY more than 11.7 scholarships as long as only 12 complete scholarships are named to Varsity?  Am I reading that right?

Just to make sure you understand the difference between NCAA and NAIA.  They are completely separate entities.  A school can choose to be a member of the NCAA at which point they are agreeing to the governance and rules of the NCAA organization.  Or, a school could choose to be a member of the NAIA and abide by their governance.  The two entities have nothing to do with one another and, to that point, schools in the NAIA won't play schools in the NCAA.

As an example, Kennesaw State was, at one time a member of the NAIA (1984-1994).  They won the NAIA World Series in baseball in 1994.  They chose to leave the NAIA and join the NCAA.  They started and a Division II school (1995-2005) and won the DII World Series in 1996.  They then moved up to a Division I level (2006-Present).

So, NAIA has their own rules and limits on scholarships by sport and aren't affected or influenced in any way by what the NCAA chooses to prescribe.

Your question indicated that this wasn't clear, so apologies if I'm being remedial.

Nuke83, everything you said is correct, except that NCAA schools and NAIA schools will occasionally play each other.  My son went to a NCAA DII school and we played a couple of NAIA non-conference games during the spring.  They were local schools that were pretty close to us.  I think that hurts the DII SOS, but probably helps the NAIA SOS.  But, it does happen.

Honestly, can't see that happening with NCAA DI teams though.  RPI is WAY too important to them now a days to play anyone other than NCAA DI teams.  Rarely will NCAA DI teams even play NCAA DII teams since the RPI came out.  I know a few years ago University of South Carolina did a favor for Francis Marion (DII) and played them for their opening game at their new stadium.  Francis Marion won...  Don't think USC was very happy about it and I'm sure it hurt their RPI to lose to a DII school.

To follow BBALLMAN's post - the NCAA limits are 11.7 in D1 and 9 in D2, but that in no way means that all schools in each division award that many baseball scholarships.  Though I know of no definitive list, the general working consensus is that considerably more than half of schools do not fully fund baseball, meaning they offer less than the max 11.7 (9).  How many they offer varies school to school.

so . . .   I think we are all proving CACO3GIRL's point in and earlier thread

this all is a big reason why baseball is so much more complicated!   wouldn't it be nice if all NCAA D1 baseball schools could offer a roster of full scholarships.  

Don't think it will happen in our lifetime, but nice to fantasize. 

CaCO3Girl posted:

 

Um...doesn't that make it sound like they can have WAY more than 11.7 scholarships as long as only 12 complete scholarships are named to Varsity?  Am I reading that right?

Keep in mind it's the equivalent to 12 full scholarships.  They (NAIA) can spread them out (50%, 25%, etc) however they want (assuming they are fully funded).   And as pointed out NAIA is a separate entity from NCAA - they are not related whatsoever.  Take the 11.7 for NCAA D1.  They can spread that out over 27 players but each must get a minimum of 25%.  Make sense.  I'm not sure of the limits for NAIA or if there are  any.

Minor additions: NAIA only has D2 in men's and women's basketball. NJCAA has D1-D3.

... and there's more...   California runs their JC's separate of the rest of the country with the CCCAA vs the NJCAA.  There is also a National Christian College Athletic Association which holds it's own national championship even though it's members are part of other entities such as NAIA and D3...  

cabbagedad posted:

... and there's more...   California runs their JC's separate of the rest of the country with the CCCAA vs the NJCAA.  There is also a National Christian College Athletic Association which holds it's own national championship even though it's members are part of other entities such as NAIA and D3...  

It gets fun...I've worked postseason for all of those entities (except NAIA) and even the players don't know what they're playing for sometimes.

bballman posted:

Nuke83, everything you said is correct, except that NCAA schools and NAIA schools will occasionally play each other.  My son went to a NCAA DII school and we played a couple of NAIA non-conference games during the spring.  They were local schools that were pretty close to us.  I think that hurts the DII SOS, but probably helps the NAIA SOS.  But, it does happen.

Honestly, can't see that happening with NCAA DI teams though.  RPI is WAY too important to them now a days to play anyone other than NCAA DI teams.  Rarely will NCAA DI teams even play NCAA DII teams since the RPI came out.  I know a few years ago University of South Carolina did a favor for Francis Marion (DII) and played them for their opening game at their new stadium.  Francis Marion won...  Don't think USC was very happy about it and I'm sure it hurt their RPI to lose to a DII school.

RPI for D1 schools only includes games against other D1 schools.

The year South Carolina lost to Francis Marion (2012), they ended up with an RPI of 6 and a national seed. They hosted a super regional before reaching the finals of the CWS. So losing an out-of-division game didn't hurt them at all. 

Didn't realize that Swamp. Why are DI teams so reluctant to play DII teams now? I believe it used to happen more than it does now. 

RPI determines the post season. Playing weak teams or lower level teams leads to a lower RPI. A team's RPI determines where they are seeded in the post season. For some it could mean not making the 64 team tournament. For others it could mean not getting a home seed for the field of 64 or for a Super Series.

RJM posted:

RPI determines the post season. Playing weak teams or lower level teams leads to a lower RPI. A team's RPI determines where they are seeded in the post season. For some it could mean not making the 64 team tournament. For others it could mean not getting a home seed for the field of 64 or for a Super Series.

That's what I was thinking. But,   Swampboy just made the point that a DI RPI is determined only by results against other DI teams. He specifically said the record against non DI teams does not count towards RPI. Just wondering why they basically stopped playing DII teams if this is the case. 

The only thing I could think is that the DII game would take away from a potential DI game. Thereby not getting a potential win against another DI team. I'm not sure though. 

bballman posted:

Didn't realize that Swamp. Why are DI teams so reluctant to play DII teams now? I believe it used to happen more than it does now. 

It still does happen.

In 2016, 54 D1 schools played 121 games against lower division schools, going a combined 103-18 in those games.

Many of the D1's that play lower division schools seem to be driven by geography and a lack of nearby D1 opponents for midweek games.

Most of the action is among schools with lower RPI's.  

Only 2 teams in the top 50 RPI played lower division opponents, and they both had geographic reasons for doing so. 

3 teams with RPI's between 51-100, 16 teams with RPI's between 101-200, and 23 teams with RPIs between 201-300 played lower division teams.  

This distribution makes sense because lower-tier D1 teams can find reasonably competitive games against lower division teams and because lower-tier D1 schools are in one-bid conferences where they don't care about missing opportunities to bolster their RPI's because their one and only way to get to a regional is to win their conference tournament.

The teams that played the most games against lower division teams tended to be the under-funded programs at HBCU's. 

So I guess the answer is that when D1 coaches build their schedules, they schedule lower division schools when it makes sense for their particular circumstances.

Thanks Swamp. Makes sense. 

bballman posted:

Nuke83, everything you said is correct, except that NCAA schools and NAIA schools will occasionally play each other.  My son went to a NCAA DII school and we played a couple of NAIA non-conference games during the spring.  They were local schools that were pretty close to us.  I think that hurts the DII SOS, but probably helps the NAIA SOS.  But, it does happen.

Honestly, can't see that happening with NCAA DI teams though.  RPI is WAY too important to them now a days to play anyone other than NCAA DI teams.  Rarely will NCAA DI teams even play NCAA DII teams since the RPI came out.  I know a few years ago University of South Carolina did a favor for Francis Marion (DII) and played them for their opening game at their new stadium.  Francis Marion won...  Don't think USC was very happy about it and I'm sure it hurt their RPI to lose to a DII school.

Not 100% certain if this is still the case, but back when I was running track in college our program was dual affiliated with NCAA and NAIA my first year there.  We were in the process of moving from NAIA D1 to NCAA DII.  Nice thing about this was we were eligible for both NAIA and NCAA national championships.  Also as far as competing DI vs. DII our entire season was spent competing at the DI level.  At the time my schools program was one of the better DII programs in the country.  NAIA national champs 3 of the 5 years prior to my arrival.  Top 10 finish in DII 2 of my 4 years there.  

Of course all of this was back in the late 80s/early 90s and in an individual sport, which is a different animal when it comes to somethings.

Swampboy is right on.  My son's D1 played a home game (Tuesday) against a D2 that's 20 miles away.  All the D2 guys traveled...so they got to experience playing against a D1.  The D2 didn't throw their top guys so it wasn't a great game, but it was competitive.  Makes sense for both teams.....short travel, don't miss class and still get to play baseball.  I don't have a problem with it.....but if they keep doing it and my son's team loses he'll never hear the end of it....as he has a couple friends playing for the D2