Nepotism

 

jerseydad - I am not suggesting there are not reasons for doing it - even good ones as you suggest.  If you asked each one of these coaches, they would give you a number of reasons why they are justified.  

 

The problem as I see it is that the negatives outweigh the positives imho.  For starters, I argue it is impossible for them to be objective when evaluating their own and thus, the determination of the "best 9" who should play is skewed.  

 

My proof of this is that the coach's kid always seem to start on day 1 and poor play does not seem to get them a seat on the bench when anyone else it surely would.  The coach has to tell others on the team why they are not playing yet makes allowances for his own.  Seems to me a huge conflict of interest that works to destroy the morale of the team.  Now if the kid turns out to be a star, I suppose the coach can say "See I told you."  By my unscientific anecdotal experience over the years, that seems hardly ever the case.

 

As far as seeing your kid, I thought of my freshmen daughter who is at a college a couple of hours away.  I don't travel up to her school each weekend to watch her participate in her academic pursuits.  I see her once or twice a semester when normal school breaks occur.  Taking baseball out of the picture, the father would still get to see his son like all other parents of college kids do - when there is a normal break in the action and they come home.   

It's funny you bring this up CD. There is a local college in the NE who has done very well in the past where this situation is going on, +1. Not only does the coaches son play on the team a position player, but his nephew too, as a pitcher. Unfortunately the team is currently 1-10, and although the coach has not played either kid full time, according to my son's friend on the team, it has had a negative effect.

 

The really ironic thing is both young men played with the same HS prep program, with the the current nephew playing for his father and the current son playing for his uncle. You can't make this stuff up! 

 

I'm totally in your corner on this one. It can't be right for a coach to expect the kids to stand up for themselves when the the same rules do not apply for the coaches son (or relative). Sometimes you need to let a young man become a man and stand on their own.

CD, I can relate on the daughter front...my little girl goes to school 11 hours from home however my post was only looking at it only from a baseball POV.  

 

I remember talking to a coach when my son was being recruited...he was telling me that he had a son the same age as my guy and had only gotten to see him play school ball 2 or 3 times a year from 7th grade on.  Kinda hit me that these guys forfeit much of what I took for granted as a parent of a baseball player. Again, if the player isn't cutting it then I agree the kid shouldn't take up a roster spot. but if they've got game...

Originally Posted by jerseydad:

… Kinda hit me that these guys forfeit much of what I took for granted as a parent of a baseball player.

 

Just to make sure its plain, “these guys” should be interpreted to mean, “SOME OF these guys”.

 

If you believe all of them are missing every one of their kid’s games, or even most of them, you’d be very wrong indeed. And if you check, I posit you’d find several players getting drafted or receiving ‘ships who played for dad, uncle, grandpa, or someone else connected with their family.

Two my best friends on different sides of this issue. But they state their case and respect each others view. I love this site.

Sorry JD I can see your point of view but I am with CD on this one. I too have seen this many times at the college level. Let your son go. Let him make his own way. JMO

It's all good Coach May...I love a good "point - counter point" as much as the next guy.  CD and I see pretty much eye to eye on most things.  Actually I don't think he's completely wrong on this one.  

 

 

I honestly don't know that having a son on the roster is a good practice, it's just that I can see why a parent/coach would like it to happen. I think it would be very tough on the player, who needs the extra baggage?  My mom was one of my teachers and I hated it.  If I did something wrong at school she always heard about it and I got it with both barrels.   Once from the teacher (mom) at school and once from mom at home.  

 

Gotta believe it would be even worse if one of my parents was my coach in college...no thanks!

 

P.S.  honored to be thought of as a friend CM, the feeling is mutual 

I have to ask though where should it end? Should a high school coach send his/her son/daughter elsewhere?

It should end when they go to college.  This is not about high school.  In high school, the kid typically attends the same high school where the parent/coach is employed and everyone understands that.  The same issues may be invovled but the coach will just have to deal with it.  I have seen coaches who have sent their kids to private schools to avoid the issue but I consider it to be different.  In college, the kid can pick any school he wants.  The college coach probably can get his kid a free ride, but again that seems to be a conflict of interest. 

I would generally agree with the OP. I personally would not like to play in the shadow of my father the head coach. If not the head coach, then I doubt it would be an issue.

Of course, this is recurring theme of pre-HS baseball, and I expect happens a whole lot in HS.

Wasn't there a coach is last years CWS that had 2 sons on the team?  I remember watching the story....and seeing both sons riding the pine...just sayin

Many of us on this site have coached our sons (or multiple sons) in travel baseball or rec baseball.  There are definitely challenges that arise from living in the house as coach-player and father-son.  I always told my kids that once we get beyond the fence, I turn from Coach into Dad.  We only talked about the game in the car if he wanted to talk about it.

 

I would argue that it is much easier to coach a 12 year old than a 18 year old college player.  If you are truly being the best college coach that you can be for the team there are going to be situations & decisions you are going to have to make that will affect your son, you,  and everybody on the team.   Why in the world would you want to put your son and yourself (as a college coach) through it at the college level?  Every decision will be scrutinized and just about every college teammate will resent your son for the perception that there is a perpetual opportunity for him to earn playing time no matter what.  If I was a college coach, I would avoid that situation as best I could for my son's sake. 

CD pointed out one issue that I don't think can be minimized:  As an university/college employee, there exists the real possibility that cost of tuition is covered for son.  And since the number of people for whom 'money is no barrier' is always fewer than you think, the Coach & his family are making a very, very rational decision having child attend his school.

 

One related story ... Many years ago, Pete Carroll was coaching New England Patriots.  After he was fired, he stayed in Boston area for period of time.  During that stretch, his daughter, on her own merit, was offered a volleyball scholarship at a west coast university.  Image her 'excitement' when two years later, dad landed job at same school and she went from complete independence on opposite of the country to the girl with 85 big brothers on campus.

Somehow my story seems related to this topic.

 

I had my father as a professor 3 times as an undergrad engineering major in college.  Somehow, it worked.  Why?  1. My father was one of the best teachers/professors in the college.  2. I was a good student.  3. I lived down by campus and not at home...the first time (but not the last two times).  4. Overall, I had a good relationship with my father.

 

It was also free...as pointed out earlier...not to be overlooked.

 

I got A's all three times...but there was nothing subjective about it.  Engineering tests/exams don't leave a lot of subjectivity...and maybe thats reason #5 as to why it worked.

 

Were there bumps?  Yup...relatively minor.  Like the couple of students in a given class that didn't like him.  They spoke their piece...I stayed quiet.

 

Truthfully, as my father has been gone for nearly 30 years now...I am very happy that I had that experience.  Its a very fond memory for me.  And I really cannot see how anyone else was hurt by it.  But then again, in a classroom...everyone "plays" so to speak.  Not true on a baseball  team.

I mean, that is the whole point of the topic.  Good story nonetheless.  If a coach wants a non-playing son or daughter to attend his school to save money then more power to them.

 

When playing time is involved however, the analogy to an engineering professor goes out the window.  I looked up the Arizona case mentioned above and yes, there were two sons on the roster.  It appears both boys were on the team and it appears they were at the bottom end of the roster.  I don't have too much of a problem with that scenario as the 34th and 35th kids on the roster do not really impact anyone.  I guess some kid could argue he was denied the right to be the 35th kid on the roster but there is not much in that.

 

What I have seen is non-talented kids (e.g., based on stats) getting the bulk of the playing time.  It seems to me that a coach of a team should be looking out for the team first.  The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.  When they carve out a position for their own, no matter how many good arguments they come up with to justify things, it seems that the needs of the few have overtaken the well-being of the team.  

CD:  I have to walk my comment back a bit ... you imply a very good point:  If free/reduced tuition is result Coach being employee of institution, there are likely no strings attached saying the child has to be participant in/on parents team/department.  So back to your modified point:  Totally understandable for both parent and child to want to be around each other in their areas of professional expertise (a rare and, I can assume, richly rewarding experience for both parties), but that shouldn't blind Coach (assumed 'professional') from getting his best 9 on field.

 

Have you considered that maybe Father can really only stand his kid 1/2 the time?  So he puts him in the field just so he can have some time away from son?

 

I thought at first the NE college that was being referred to was Akron.  Pretty obvious issues there with similar situation.

CD - 

 

Interesting discussion.

 

Should a local grocery store owner not give his kid a job?  Should a partner at a law firm not hire his kid for a summer internship?

 

1 point I dont think I saw is that a college coach feeds his family based on his job on the field.  Did you consider that if by playing his sons/nephews/cousins whatever that they may lose which in turn will get him fired?  You think any coach wants to lose his job?  My guess is that most of these coaches are filling out a lineup card that they feel will get the job done.  Which leads to another point...

 

Apple usually doesn't fall from the tree.  Son of a college baseball coach might not be the most physically gifted (but they might), but I bet their baseball IQ is light years ahead of the other kids.  

 

I could see how this could upset a parent of a kid who seems to be stuck behind the coach's kid, but maybe those parents are the ones out of line.

 

Did you know that Pistol Pete played for his dad?  This article was in the USA Today this week by coincidence... http://www.usatoday.com/story/...m-iim-baron/1965671/

 

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com/bus_tour

www.Twitter.com/PlayInSchool

To this point why add the pressure to both you and your son?  You better be right even if he is the best. 

 

Seems to me Dan Hawkins dismissal as football coach at Colorado was hastened by fact he chose to play his son at QB. He might have been best kid for the job but they lost regularly and didn't turn out well for someone who appeared to have a promising coaching career in the works. 

I coached both my sons in HS. It's tough. Very tough. But really harder on them than anyone. I had a rule for both my sons. "You will be the standard for everything I require from a player in this program. I will lose the respect of my players if the coaches sons don't do it and do it right. You will be clearly the best option or you won't see the field. People might say it but it will never be true. That your only playing because your the coaches kid. If you can't handle that don't come out for the team."

My oldest got cut by me his soph year. He couldn't deal with it. He came back his Sr and did handle it. Got 15 abs as a DH and was a great leader. My youngest handled it from day one.

The problem is everyone "coaches" can't handle it. And at the college level ther is no reason for the dad or son to be put in that situation. If the kid is good enough to play for you he's good enough to step out on his own and play for someone else. JMO

This is just another take on playing time politics.

 

How many college teams are there that play baseball, 1,200 +?   I am sure there is more than one college in the country that has a father/son combo.  Why does almost everyone go in with the preconceived notion that the son is only on the team because his dad is the coach?  Odds are the kid is good enough. His dad prob. played college or above level ball and those genetic and experiences have been passed on to the son.

It is unfortunate if/when the college coach's son is batting .109 from the 2 hole and he has NEVER missed a game or an AB, yettttt.....when any/all other players are struggling they are either yanked or if lucky just dropped in the order. WOWWWWW

Good topic. There were two college coaches that were very successful for many years in Div 1. Along came their sons and there went their jobs.

 

Eddie Cardieri was the head coach at U. South Florida for 21 years and took them to 8 NCAA regionals. He had two kids on the team during his last four seasons and was fired in 2005 I think.

 

Rod Delmonico was the U Tenn Vol head coach from 1990-2007 when he was fired. Rod and his UT SS son Tony left  Knoxville for Tallahassee and FSU.

 

I've seen another head coach have two sons in succession and his team wnet from a regional team bout ever other year to the conference basement last year.

 

I have a hard time believing having a kid on the team helps recruiting, knowing that most good players are daddyball-averse. I also believe the situation can make team chemistry "unbalanced".

Team chemistry allows the whole to be greater than the sum of the parts. Having a kid on the team can upset the situation.

I think the OP is perhaps generalizing a bit loosely here. I guess there may be a coach or two that has a kid playing that perhaps should not be playing...but this entire thread sounds like a gathering of youth baseball parents.  Politics, Daddy's Boy...on and on. Most college coaches, I believe, put the team on the field that gives them the best chance of winning. 

 

If a father wants to coach his son and his son is good enough to play,  more power to him. Too many parents are so focused on creating drama and finding reasons as to why their son isn't the center of attention.  Mom and Dad have eyes only for their own.  

I can certainly see both sides of this subject, but I tend to agree with the OP.

Yet I bet this subject will get mixed reviews on this forum because a certain % here have coached their own kids at some level.

Can the situation work? Sure it can, and has in the past. Then again it can certainly not work, and create dissension among the players and parents.

I think we have all witnessed fathers who coached their kids and showed favoritism, whether it be LL on up. There is no reason to believe that just because a father is a college coach that he will be objective about his own kid. Then again some fathers have also been tougher on their own kids than they would be with another player.

 

I certainly do not envy the situation, and refused to get involved when I was asked to be the pitching coach for one of my sons travel teams. I essentially worked with him alone, but did not want to be put into that type of situation. Yet if I were a HS or college level coach and my son could get a free 4 year ride, who knows how those competing interests might effect my decision.

 

Another issue that has a negative effect on teams is "legacy" kids. I was told by a college coach that his D1 program had too many of these players, and it resulted in a less successful program. He was not the HC, but empathized with what he must be going through because "at least half a dozen kids had no business in the program", but there was nothing the coaches could do about it.

So the politics never seems to end, even at the college level. I suspect it might even be in the minors when it comes to getting drafted, but I am not sure how far it gets beyond that.

 

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