New to coaching questions

I have what I call the A-B-C formula. With 12 on the roster, my four best players are "A" players. They start and play every inning except I pull them during blowouts. The next four best players are your "B" group. Three of those four should start each game. Rotate so that the same guy does not sit each game. The remaining four are your "C" players. Two of them start, two sit. Again, rotate them so it is not the same guys sitting every game. Then your challenge is when to substitute. Follow the formula and you have a fairly balanced line-up each and every night and somewhat of a formula for establishing playing time. BTW, the one caveat is that players can change groups. One of your "B" players can go on a hot streak and slide into the "A" group and vice versa. I use an excel spreadsheet so I can easily copy the previous night's line-up and make my changes, plus I can track playing time so that any parent who questions me gets facts before opinions. Hope this helps....

13-14 rec league right? Everyone should rotate and everyone should learn to sit the bench some. Why not? Everyone should get the opportunity to start and play an entire game.

Players need an opportunity to develop their skills in game situations. Maybe those lesser players could develop if they were given more opportunities to actually play instead of sitting the bench. What happens to these top players on this rec team when they get to hs and they have to sit the bench? They never have before. How are they going to handle it? If you were coaching and your son was not playing how would you handle it? Would you feel differently than you do now?

This is a 13-14 year old rec league right? What happens if you lose? What happens if you give all the kids the chance to play and develop in game situations? Hmmmm...........

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as of 2 games my son is .500 batting, 1000 on base %

impossible

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Parents also got made when I made boys run laps for missing ground balls at practice

Does this improve their technique? Does it make them better fielders? No!

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I gave him a list of 5 players that should never sit out, but he is still trying to please parents and let everyone play infield, and for that reason we have lost both games.

Your son is playing rec ball. If he's too good for rec ball he should be playing travel. Then he'll have to earn his playing time like everyone else.

Thanks for the replies
I like the A.B.C idea

Now RJM,as I said I am new to this also, I feel a lot of hostility comming from you here.
I was under the impression you were here to help, but I suppose this is your way of doing it, at least I got the answers I needed.

Again my understanding is if you are at bat 4 times and hit 2, that is a .500 BA.
If you are up 4 times and hit 2 and walk 2, that is a 1000
If I am wrong ok, but explain why I am, not just impossible!!! Remember, this forum is for US to learn, not to be critized.

NO, running may not make them field better but it may make them try harder, again I'm pretty new, but if it gets there attention, whats wrong with it??

Yes, he is playing rec ball, and I'm not saying he is that GREAT, he has played on allstars and traveling teams, and yes, he has sat out MANY innings, and I had no problem with it.I made a list
of 5 A players, my son was only 1 of those.

But on all those teams and all our rec ball teams since coach pitch, none of the top 5 players have ever had bench time, so I was going by what I have seen for the last 9 years. I asked on here because I really want to do whats right, until now it's what I have seen.
All of you have made some good points, so I will now just say thanks for your answers again.

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NO, running may not make them field better but it may make them try harder, again I'm pretty new, but if it gets there attention, whats wrong with it??

Your first reaction to mistakes can't be - "make them run". The first thing you need to do is figure out why or what is causing the mistake. If it's mechanical or lack of knowledge then fix it and work on it. For example if a kid is missing flyballs to the side becuase they go over his head it might be because he is taking the wrong angle. Teach him to drop step to work behind the ball. If he doesn't know how to do that but is made to run everytime he misses a flyball he's going to start thinking why in the world am I putting up with this. To him he is being punished for not catching a ball that in his mind is impossible to catch becasue it's over his head.

Now if he knows what to do and doesn't do it then you might need to get his attention but always teach first.

I'm with Coach May in that it won't hurt them to sit the bench some. If any kid progresses up the ladder the chances get fewer and the competition gets tougher. At some point a kid (no matter the talent in rec league) will end up on the bench at some point. If they don't know how to handle it then they will be miserable and probably be a terrible team mate. Being on the bench can teach a kid how to fight and claw for a starting position. It can bring out a hunger or desire that hasn't been there before but they have to understand what's going on - just because you have talent and have always been the best doesn't guarantee playing time.

Ask yourself what is the purpose of rec league. Are you and the other coaches there to teach the game or to win? If it's to teach then who cares about stats and win / loss records - those will take care of themselves later on. Rec league should be about teaching the game to be played the right way.

Coach
Thanks for your input
I need to be a little more clear on my side
This was the 3rd or 4th practice, I had been explaining how to catch a ground ball,get the glove down, eyes on ball etc.
on the practice in question I told them at the start, anyone missing a ground ball will run a lap.
I then asked if anyone needed any help or if they had any reason they couldn't run a lap, 1 kid with prior knee injury said his knee was hurting so I told him he wouldn't have to run. No other boy had a problem with it, some even asked to be run more, there are always those on a team also.
I guess I was wrong in my expectations,thats why I am here.
Thanks Again

Why make a kid run when he misses a ground ball or a fly ball?

In all my years of coaching I have never made kids run---never saw the need---what does running prove----kid misses a ground ball or a fly ball teach him how to do it correctly---stay after practice with him and hit him a 100 ground balls or fly balls or more if he wants---the parents should not complain about him staying because you are working on him becoming a better player.

What I see is a need for a more experienced coach to join you

Punishing a player for making an error sends the wrong message. Makes the player think about the punishment and not making the play.
You should only punish for not putting up an honest effort.

First of all if you get up 4 times get 2 hits and walk 2 times your not hitting .500.

Your 2-2 so do the math on that one.

Secondly running for phyical errors serves no purpose at all. Running for mental errors I can see. But only after you have coached them to understand what they have done wrong and they continue to make mental mistakes.

No one is too good to sit the bench , rotate in a line up , learn what it is like to sit there watch the game and pull for his team mates. No one at these levels of play.

Players learn how to play better with good instruction and positive feedback. They do not get better out of fear. They get better by learning how to play with no fear.

OK I surrender, No running!!!!
But as far as the stats are concerned I am right.
4 at bats, 2 hits = 50% or in BB .500
and 4 at bats, 2 hits 1 walk and 1 HBP = 100% On base, or .1000

I will learn from all this and make sure that all players that would like to attempt an infield Pos, will get to give it a shot.
Thank you all for your help

Does he have 8 plate appearances or 4 plate appearances? I have no idea how you are trying to figure this out.

First time up - base hit = 1 for 1 1.000 batting avg / 1.000 on base
Second time up - walk = 1 for 1 1.000 batting avg / 1.000 on base
Third time up - base hit = 2 for 2 1.000 batting average / 1.000 on base
Fourth time up - walk = 2 for 2 1.000 batting average / 1.000 on base

So he's 2 for 2 hitting but 4 for 4 in on base average. Both means he's 1.000%.

Now if

Fifth time up - groundout = 2 for 3 .667 / 4 for 5 .800 on base

Again I re-iterate----two guys wih no coaching experience needs a coach with experience

The fact that a coach worries about stats concerns me---ouch

Outdoorlover,
I think you don't quite understand what an at-bat is, in the context of computing batting or on base averages. So...

Everytime it is a player's turn to hit, he has a plate appearance.

If he is put out (excepting for sacrifices), reaches on an error, or a hit, he is charged with an at-bat. He is not charged with an at-bat for sacrifices, walks, hit by pitch, or if he is awarded first because of interference or obstruction. (OBR 10.02a)

His batting average is the number of safe hits divided by the number of at-bats. (10.21b)

On-base percentage is computed as (hits + BB + HBP)/(at-bats+BB+HBP+Sac flies). (10.21f)

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Originally posted by TRhit:
Again I re-iterate----two guys wih no coaching experience needs a coach with experience

The fact that a coach worries about stats concerns me---ouch

Unfortunately there are some leagues (including my own) where there just ARENT people with experience.

That's why this board is very, very helpful to people like the original poster.

Stop getting on his back!

Now back to the regular programming...

Thank you very much bballdad, man, I feel like I am
being tried for murder. I only keep responding because I want to know whats right and wrong.
And as bad as I hate to say I'm wrong again, I am.
Walk's and HBP does not count as at bats.So yes he is .100 and .100, it matters to no one but him and me. I'm sure none of you that continue beating me have never been proud of your sons.

And yes, we are coaching because no one else will.
As I see it now, the main caoach is trying to do things more in line with all of your way of coaching. I was going by what I have seen for the last 9 years and my sons coaches.
If you aren't good, you play 2 bat 1, and yes my son has sat out many.

In my own small (just two teams) 13-14YO rec league, I followed very similar to the A-B-C formula where the A kids play all the time, the B kids are part timers, and the C kids are very part time.

At this age, they should pretty much have it figured out as to whether baseball is their thing.

And if they are C kids, they will benefit STRONGLY from all the practices and their 2 innings, 1 plate appearance.

The B kids will do fine sharing their spots as long as you keep it fun.

I never get on the players about their skills (i.e., they don't stop grounders). We just work on those things harder. I *do* get on them if they are disrepectful to the game (hat backwards, yelling at each other or other players, that kind of stuff), or they are not putting in 100% FOR THE TEAM. and if I get on them, I try to put it in their court to take responsibility. And I always end the practice on a positive note (even if they were dogging it and ticking me off).

One idea I use (and the 13-14 kids really like) is to have a question and answer session EVERY practice about baseball - rules, trivia, Cy Youn winner, etc. I'll usually break them into 3 groups or so and award a starburst (yes I carry lots of them) to the whole group if they get the answer correct. I'll ask 3 or 4 or 5 questions and make the awards. Then we'll talk about the last game, what we could have executed better, what we did really well, etc.

I also have one of the moms bring some cookies once in a while (not every practice like the old days when they were little), but once in a while (every 3rd time or so).

They're still kids even though they look like grownups.

And if you have trouble with kids dogging it, they usually respond to being put last in batting practice. I've threatned also (jokingly) to make them practice with just one cleat on. That will sometimes turn the tide and get them to put some more effort forth without having to be a hardass.

You'd be surprised at how much effort a 14 year old kid will put in for single starburst.

You don't get better in games, you get better in practice and you execute in games.

Thanks again Bballdad
This is the kind of info I was hoping for.
I have learned: Don't punish-Teach!
How stats and at bats work
And I still like the idea of A,B,C players as you and the 1st poster advised.
We are also a small league, only 2 teams and we have to travel to other counties just to play 10 games.
I also believed at 14, they should know the basics, some have never played and I have spent more time with those kids.
But since we started game play, the Coach will not hold a practice, so I just keep practicing with my son and anyone that wants to show up.
I'm hoping that with the help of this forum, I can learn a lot this year and try to coach next year.
I am moving to a city that should have high level
coaches available to help.
Again Thanks for your help and ideas, I'm not letting parents or posts chase me off from helping.

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But since we started game play, the Coach will not hold a practice,

That's a bit of a challenge. They need the opportunity to practice things they didn't execute in games - dropped third conversion, bunt defense, stealing, holding runners, etc.

If you want to learn more, go the site www.mycoachonline.com and join and watch all the baseball videos. There are a lot of good videos there and the membership is inexpensive.

Outdoorlover, first, I commend you for reaching out. This forum should be one to seek advice and help without a whole lot of extra rhetoric.

Second, I hope the A-B-C works for you. Just keep in mind that you should re-evaluate each player often because they will change over the course of a season.

Third, to me running is a form of punishment. My team rules state that physical mistakes "happen" and mental mistakes will be dealt with accordingly. No kid ever (well, rarely) misses a ground ball on purpose, so I never punish for physical mistakes. But the mental stuff involves their decisions and mindset, not yours. I sometimes add incentive (hint: running or push-ups) to heighten the intensity of a drill, but it rarely evolves around a physical skill like fielding a ground ball. Its a fine line. For example, when I teach leading, I have a 5 step process. After 10 minutes of practice, if they do the 5-steps and get picked off, we keep practicing, but if they still do not do the 5-steps properly, then they take a short jog to think about what they are missing (usually I ask them and make sure they know what they did wrong before the jog so they can think about the correction). They quickly learn to match what I expect, they adjust their focus, and magically they seem to learn the skill. BTW, 9 times out of 10, if they get picked off, it was because they were goofing off, talking, or not taking the drill seriously, hence the running can be effective. Hope that helps...keep plugging a way, and don't forget to have fun!!

One thing that I do is tell them going into a drill or game like situations that if this standard isn't met then there will be running afterward. But I go on to explain it's not so much for messing up but more for putting pressure on them to perform. They don't want to run and I don't want them to run but they need to have pressure put on them at some point during practice. It's not game like pressure but it's still pressure.

One thing I tell them is if you can't execute in practice then you won't execute in games. When that happens there are consequences and that's losing. In practice if they don't perform then there is a consequence.

I don't do this a whole lot - maybe 2 or 3 times a week in the preseason and once every two weeks during the preseason. Reason is I don't them to associate physical mistakes with punishment. I want them to feel pressure and I explain that to them.

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Third, to me running is a form of punishment.

I would like to take this time to thank you and all coaches who believe running is a good form of punishment. You've made a strength and conditioning coach's job that much harder. Thank you.

bulldog

what you do for strength and conditioning is no way the same as running kids for errors

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what you do for strength and conditioning is no way the same as running kids for errors

Last I checked, a sprint is a sprint no matter what the reason is.

bulldog

you don't get it do you?

running as punishment is not training--it is punishment

Running and other conditioning activities should not be associated with a punishment. Punishment should be reserved for things like lack of effort, not showing up on time, missing practice etc. punishment should result in sitting the bench. Playing errors should be dealt with by working with the player to improve his skills. That is a positive thing and shows support for the player. I have often seen coaches make the whole team run or do push ups because 1 player messed up. o me that is counter productive.

To each his own , but.

I do not believe in punishment for not performing well. I believe in punishment for lack of effort , failure to follow rules , mental mistakes etc.

Teach the game. Kids want to succeed. If they are not fielding properly then continue to work on fielding properly. Teach them how to field by teaching them how to field. I have never understood how running for poor fielding helps you field better.

Conditioning should be for conditioning. Its just too easy to say "If you make an error your going to run." Yeah they are going to try harder so they dont have to run but in baseball trying harder makes you worse. Players play afraid of screwing up instead of just playing and letting their fundementals take over. You have to play with no fear and you have to play with confidence. If your used to getting screamed at and having to run everytime you mess up then you are going to play scared of messing up.

I just set a time period in practice for conditioning and we condition. Its never a form of punishment. If you need to punish a kid then punish him with field clean up duty or something of that nature. I want them to equate running with getting better not running becuase I screwed up.

I want them to equate more ground balls with more ground balls to work on my technique not more ground balls for a chance to get more running.

I never get upset with physical errors. I have never seen a kid try to make an error. I do get upset with mental errors and lack of focus. Just me different strokes for different folks.

I agree with everything above but still believe that when explained my drill earlier will work saying they run if they don't execute. What I've seen come out of it is the team will start to bond and come closer most of the time. They know their team mate has to perform and start to pull for him to be successful. Sometimes it doesn't work but most of the time it does.

If you just run it out there without explaining it then you will probably end up not getting the results you want. It has to be explained.

When you get across to them that running is about conditioning and conditioning only they will end up doing it on their own. When we would end practice the guys would ask us what kind (distance, sprints, baserunning) we were doing for conditioning and then how much. Once we got to conditioning they basically took over and worked hard at it.

I also try to make our drills intense to incorporate conditioning. I have a rundown drill we do that gets them sweating and breathing hard but they really don't have a clue they are tired.

Teach the game
Punish attitudes
Improve everyday

OK, I am still looking reading and learning.

We had a practice today, everytime I pulled a player to go bat and he walked off the field I told him to hustle or run, ALWAYS run on the field.

1 player, just has no desire to try hard at all, took him 20 minutes to go to bathroom, saw him strolling back like he just don't care.
He came on the field, no glove no hat, so I ask him what he's doing, he just looks and shrugs, so I tell him to get his glove and get in LF, he strolls behind batter so I tell him to hustle up, he keeps walking so catcher tells him to move his butt.
This is what I'm dealing with, I have shown them, told them and SOME, will not listen.
I can't make them run, I can't do anything because the COACH is worried about the parents,Although he is starting to see my reasoning.
Now, what??

Did the coach have a parent's meeting before the season started? Did he give each player a copy of the team expectations, running between the lines, no shorts to practice, ball cap to practice etc? I have not been a head coach but I have made observations of each and every coach my son had and took notes on what worked, what did players respond to and how the parents also responded. Tell the whole team at once what is expected as far as hustle and such. I agree with the other posters, more ground balls and fly balls will improve their skills. My son played competitive ball starting at 11 and they played to win, if you did not go along with the rules as stated you were asked to leave the team.

NO, parent meeting/no paper not even a drink schedule
I know!!
This is rec ball so no kicking off players either.
Wouldn't want to anyway, I just want them to at least act like they they care.

This is a Rec team ....not a travel team? Unfortunately some of the kids are there because their parents want them there. They would rather be playing Nintendo. Be happy with the 5 or 6 kids that show some interest in learning the game. The last thing you want to do is let the others think it's important to win the game and they must perform .....they don't want to be in the spotlight. They are actually happy to play 2 innings and fade into the background. You will be surprised how 5 or 6 turn into 8 or 9. The game is not for everyone.

I tell you what you need to do it this situation. You work your butt off for the kids that want to be there. And you ignore the ones that dont. Dont allow the ones that dont want to be there to use up all your time and energy which in turn takes away from what you can give to the ones that want to be there.

Its a rec team this is what you get on many of these teams. If your going to coach in this type of situation you have got to learn to focus on the kids that want to be there instead of allowing the ones that dont to cause you to get frustrated. Its not fair to the ones that want to be there if you allow this to happen.

And you will find that the kids that work hard and want to be there will end up catching the grief from you that those other kids build inside of you. Dont allow that to happen. Good luck

I would take my son and go find a better situation.
There's a lot of good baseball in your state.
What you have described is a huge waste of time IMO.

cball

Why would you run from the situation ?

He is one of the coaches--all they need is an experienced coach to join the staff

Running away is all to easy but then again that is how people think today---this gentleman is looking for advice, not to run

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cball

Why would you run from the situation ?

He is one of the coaches--all they need is an experienced coach to join the staff

Running away is all to easy but then again that is how people think today---this gentleman is looking for advice, not to run

TRhit

I didn't advise him to reneg his commitment I advised him to look to a better situation.
It's possible to do both.

Nope, not going to run.
We lost our 4th straight game last night, 14-6
We are having lots of trouble pitching, and still can't get most of the boys to stop the ball.
NO, experienced coaches willing to come forth so we are It.
I have no idea how to get a pitcher on target this late, I have been working with my son and he did OK last night but got hit a lot.
Anyway, just an update on our situation.
Still a challange
Thanks for all the advice

Gotta agree with Coach May & others on this one. Doesn't hurt a kid to sit once in a while - makes him understand how to be a good TEAMMATE, not just a good player. By the time they get to high school, the cream will rise to the top anyway....and you'll have a group of kids that understand what it means to be a PART of the team, not THE team.