New VHSL Pitching Regulations?

Here's the basic info that I pulled, saving you the time to click 'n scroll:

For the purposes of this rule, delivery of one pitch constitutes having pitched in one inning.

A pitcher may pitch in a maximum of nine innings in one day but not more than fourteen innings in any seven day consecutive period.

If a pitcher pitches in one inning for four consecutive days that pitcher shall have one calendar day of rest from competition pitching beginning with the day following the fourth consecutive day a pitch is thrown.

If a pitcher pitches in two or three innings in one day that pitcher shall have one calendar day of rest from competition pitching beginning with the day following the first day a pitch is thrown.

If a pitcher pitches four to seven innings in one day that pitcher shall have two calendar days of rest from competition pitching beginning with the day following the first day a pitch is thrown. Further restrictions regarding this section include:
‐ After two days of rest a pitcher may pitch a maximum of two innings.
‐ After three days of rest a pitcher may pitch a maximum of three innings.
‐ After four days of rest a pitcher may pitch to the limit of the rule.

If a pitcher pitches in eight or nine innings in one day that pitcher shall have three calendar days of rest from competition pitching beginning with the day following the first day a pitch is thrown.
‐ After three days of rest a pitcher may pitch a maximum of two innings.
‐ After four days of rest a pitcher may pitch a maximum of three innings.
‐ After five days of rest a pitcher may pitch to the limit of the rule.

This limitation applies to regular season as well as post season play.

The first one that jumped out at me was the idea of a kid being allowed to throw on four consecutive days. But then I realized, in a season limited to 20 games, how many teams even play on four straight days? So hopefully that'll come up only very infrequently, perhaps in a rainy season with lots of makeups at the end.

The second thing I notice is that state quarterfinal and championship games are going to get affected. At the district and regional levels, if your # 1 guy goes in the quarterfinals and then isn't available for finals, the worst case scenario is you lose and thereby lose your home field advantage, but you aren't eliminated. But when you get to the state tourney, common practice is for the # 1 guy to go Tuesday in the hope he can start again for you if you make the championship game on Saturday. But under this rule, once your # 1 goes into the 4th inning on Tuesday, he's capped at 3 innings on Saturday. And if you get rained out Tuesday and play your quarterfinal on Wednesday, he's further restricted on Saturday.

The rule of thumb is, there is no Saturday game if you don't win Tuesday (and Friday), so I can't see teams pulling their # 1 in a tight game on Tuesday. But if it's a blowout, the coach will need to be on his toes to pull his big guy.

A question: Will there be an exception for tournament play, to prevent this?

Honestly, I am a big advocate of adequate rest intervals. But to me it's more important that you get them regularly. Coaches are often guilty of putting too much importance on an individual game, but when you are truly at the end of the season and a championship is on the line, I would be OK with relaxing the rule for just state tourney week, so that a guy could go 7 on Tuesday and 7 again on Saturday. (Though he should then take off extra time before starting summer play.)

Though perhaps that would argue for monitoring pitch counts, too, not just innings. Some guys can do 7 innings in 85 pitches, others would need 125. I don't have a problem with the guy who throws 85 on Tuesday going again on Saturday. I'm never in favor of a kid going as high as 125, no matter how many innings are involved. But it happens, and if it did, I wouldn't want that guy going again that same week.

Seems like a move to do the right thing: helps protect over-used aces and get them needed and meaningful rest. Also rewards (in the bigger scheme of things) teams with deeper but consistent, non-ace pitching should be able to do better.

quote:

That just shows the difference in perspectives, Midlo. I never had occasion to expend a single brain cell pondering state tourney pitching rotations.

Yeah, between Midlo Son's experiences and those of our Cardinals players whom I have followed the last few years, I've definitely been spoiled!

Who is going to keep track of who pitches when and when can they go again. Will it be a forfit or a fine if this rule is broken. How will any one know.

quote:

Originally posted by JF:
Who is going to keep track of who pitches when and when can they go again. Will it be a forfit or a fine if this rule is broken. How will any one know.

Good question:
With some of the game reports I have seen on this site, I would think this board would be a viable resource.

There have to be some enforcement procedures established. Typically the home team scorebook is considered "official" and anyone wishing to lodge a protest could gather those records to support a protest. In LL play, the HPU also keeps a card that lists pitchers by number, name and # innings pitched (using the rule definition of 1 pitch = 1 inning), so I guess VHSL could adopt something like that as well.

I would think this would be akin to using a player later found to be ineligible, and the result of an upheld protest would be a forfeit. I should hope the coach would also have to face a suspension and, if a violation were found to be willful, maybe worse.

I would imagine that opposing coaches will be keeping track too

I would think that would generate complaints, but someone will have to compile information of a more disinterested nature in order to rule on complaints that are contested.

From the Washington Post, providing greater detail behind the new rule, which is official.

And FWIW: I completely agree with the Northern Region Baseball Coaches Association regarding pitch counts as the basis for adjudication. The VHSL had a chance to do this right from the beginning, and failed to do so. There's enough technology out there today to monitor and report on pitch counts, e.g., how difficult could it be to use GameChanger as a data source funneled into a master DB?

I know the counter: garbage in, garbage out. But not when you have both teams scoring a game on GameChanger with an agreed-upon means to reconcile differences. Using GameChanger as a I/O method to track pitch counts is just one way to use technology, and I'm sure there are others.

Hmmmmm...using technology to track pitch counts across each state, tournament, etc. I smell a business opportunity...

Did anyone else notice that in the Washington Post article that was linked here, they wrote the following:

"The VHSL said that the medical community uses 10 to 15 pitches as an average that a pitcher throws per inning."

Really?

I can see it now, the Coach telling the kid's parent, "It's okay, Johnny has only thrown 5 innings, he's still good to go." When Johnny had 20+ pitches in each inning and he's now over 100 pitches.

Personally I think the sweet spot in this issue is in the middle somewhere (innings vs pitch count) but the reality is every kid is different.

I think one of the missing components of this policy is it doesn't require any education. If we are serious about protecting the kids we need to require coaches to at least attend a clinic on pitching. I don't mean how to pitch exactly, but there are some things that could be shared to generally inform coaches about what the medical community is seeing and there is enough bio mechanical research out there to dispell some of the the "old school" methods. Much like football has had to address the concussion problem, baseball needs to address this often misunderstood part of the game.

At the high school level, only very efficient and effective guys stay under 15 per inning.

What that does point out is that they are treating the contact guy who averages 10-12/inning the same as the guy who walks a lot (and maybe has a shoddy fielding team behind him), and so runs 25+/inning.

I never understood this in LL play and I don't understand it now. It's not much harder to track pitch counts than it is to track innings.

Agreed, in 10 years my clicker has never differed from the official book by more than 5%.

1. According to a statistic that has been airing on the radio lately – texting while driving makes you 23 times more likely to have an accident. Obviously texting while driving is very dangerous. According to a journal article by Dr. Kerut on the prevention of arm injuries, high school pitchers pitching with arm fatigue makes them 36 times more likely to suffer an injury requiring surgery. Pitching more than 80 pitches per game made them 4 times more likely to suffer an injury requiring surgery . Over pitching is the baseball equivalent of texting while driving.

2. The recently passed VHSL pitching policy is flawed up.
- It uses innings pitched when pitch count is far more valid and accurate.
- It penalizes an efficient pitcher and fails to protect the average pitcher.
- It allows too many pitches per day – far in excess of what ASMI research indicates as reasonable, exposing our children to unnecessary risk.
- It does not differentiate between the 14 year old JV pitcher and the 18 year old varsity pitcher as any reasonable policy would.

3. Should we feel comfortable allowing our 14 year to pitch 9 innings in a single day, an average of 135 pitches . Would you be comfortable about it knowing that regularly throwing over 80 pitches per game makes high school pitchers 4 times more likely to require surgery? Dr. Andrews (ASMI) recommends no more than 90 at the High School Level. “High school pitchers should not throw more than 90 pitches in a game and they should have to take at least five days rest before they pitch again anywhere,” he said. “No way should they throw more than 100. The elbow isn’t ready for that workload. I understand coaches are under a lot of pressure to win. But coaches need to know your No. 1 priority is the health and safety of your young pitchers and baseball players. Your job is to deliver them to the next level without injury.”

4. Where is the medical basis for what was just passed by the VHSL? I want to see it. As parents we should demand it. Challenge the SMAC or VHSL Staff to produce one medical journal article that supports an innings pitched proposal like this. Sure, innings have been used as the metric as to when to shut down for a season, but not a game. Don’t confuse the two.

5. This new policy is reckless.

Rick Fuhrmann (rickdotf@aol.com)
VA Parent

Merry Christmas to all.

Agree that pitch count is a better method of trying to protect arms than innings pitched. Give credit to where it is deserved in that the VHSL is trying to help the kids, but let's hope over the next season or two they continue to update their efforts.

Midlo,

I coached LL during the timeframe LL switched from innings to pitches. Before the rule change, I tracked innings and pitches. I didn't make any errors with the number of innings in probably 50 games or more but I know I missed a few pitches here and there. With that said, if LL can track pitch counts you would think high schools could as well. My guess is that within 2 years, they modify this rule to pitch counts.

So if a guy throws 5 innings on tuesday!can he not pitch any on friday?what about someone throws like 3 innings whats the rule on that?

RickF - I agree with everything you stated

springer80 - I agree as well that by 2 years they will modify this rule to pitch counts not innings pitched if they truly care about our kids.

VHSL is doing the very minimal possible. What is preventing them from taking this a couple steps farther? Unfortunetly, as parents we end up being the ones that monitor the situation (how many of us carry clickers?), and manage the situation when needed. Example: If your son is/was an ace on a hs team he now has an out with the coach that he did not have before. The coach has has one less option to overuse your kid during the week....that is a good thing. More is needed.

I've seen overuse first hand as most of us have. I had a kid smart enough to know his limits and would not let himself be pressured to do something that would put himself at risk. He had to tell his coach "No" a few times, and that is not a situation a high school player should be put in. But I've also seen kids that don't think about their long term health. Kids that get injured by overuse, and it takes many months, sometimes years to recover if they ever fully recover. We've all seen or heard of kids that start their college careers injured. Playing catch up to earn a spot in a college rotation with 17-18 other college pitchers is difficult. This rule does the minimum to protect our high school pitchers, but it is not enough IMHO. Measuring pitch counts is going to be vastly more effective at protecting these arms than innings.

Yes, you are all correct!! Government SHOULD be reactionary, it's part of the core of our freedom, just like the passion of good parents to keep this issue on line, out front and moving to fruition. Football helmets did not change because of government, it was the power of parents. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year of baseball to everyone!!

quote:

Originally posted by ofs10:
So if a guy throws 5 innings on tuesday!can he not pitch any on friday?what about someone throws like 3 innings whats the rule on that?

If he pitches 5 on Tuesday, he can pitch a max of 2 on Friday.

If you pitch 3, then you can pitch again after one complete day of rest.

Setting aside the innings vs pitch count debate, there's a problem with a rule that handles a pitcher that pitches 3.1 innings the same as a 7 inning complete game (the 4-7 inning rule, remeber, one pitch in an inning equals a complete inning). It just does not make sense.