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I just got home from football practice and I saw something that troubles me and I feel like I need to share my (not anybody else's) thoughts on what happened. As I was pulling out of school our volleyball team was finishing their tryouts. A girl who will be a senior this year that has made the cut every year was crying. I went up to her and asked what was wrong and she gave me the whole "nothing - I'm fine" spiel. I kept at it and she let me read a piece of paper she had in her hand.

This paper was telling her that she didn't make the team. Obviously she was upset and should be but I think there are two problems with this process.

First problem - she is a senior who got cut after making the team every year. Now I realize we all have a job to do and prepare our teams and sometimes we have to cut players who are not up to par but sometimes you keep a kid because it's the right thing to do. This is a girl who makes good grades, is respected by the entire faculty, respected by the student body, would run through a wall for you if you just hinted at it - she's that kid. For a kid like this I believe you give them a choice if you know they cannot beat out anyone for playing time.

Take them into the office or someplace private and tell them "I do not feel you have the talent to get a lot of playing time. But you are that kid and I will not just outright cut you because you have earned more than that. So here are some options I want you to consider - stay on the team and work everyday in practice as hard as you can although it might mean you hardly get any playing time. Or you can stay on as a manager and help the coaches out with some various tasks - not a water girl but someone with real responsibilities. Or you can decide not to play if that is what you want." I think the good kids have earned this outcome. Not all kids but the kids that you wish all were like.

My other problem is when you cut players I believe you should do it face to face. All players regardless of talent have earned that right to hear directly from your mouth what their fate is and why they are being cut. Plus it gives you a chance to tell the ones you keep their role. If you haven't cut a kid before let me warn you it will be one of the hardest things you do as a coach. I go into every season truly wishing every kid makes it but let's face it - they won't and you have to get rid of some of them. Those kids have earned the right to be in a private place to learn if they get cut because some will break down and cry. They deserve a place where they can regain their composure before they have to face their buddies. If you post a list or hand out a already printed letter with a blank for their name how do you really tell them how to get better or what they need to work on? Face to face is the best way.

All that being said I have (and still do) a lot of respect for this coach. What they do on the volleyball court works because they are successful but obviously this is something I disagree with. You have to do what you think is best as a coach and I'm just putting this out there as what I think is the right thing to do. Some coaches don't feel this way and that's cool. But hopefully this is some food for thought.

Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude. Thomas Jefferson

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Great post Coach.

I agree with everything you said. A girl who has played several years and contributed in numerous ways in the past to be cut like this is quite sad. My honest opinion is the way this cut was handled was cowardly. I know you said you respected this coach but you may not have known he/she has made cuts like this every year. My daughter made varsity volleyball this year and I know over 1/2 the summer her hopes have been on making it through the tryouts, etc. The way she found out was by a list on the gym door. I think maybe this might be the "easiest" way of doing it but I still don't like it.

I know when my son was in high school the head baseball coach also posted a list. But he made it clear that any player (no parent!) who wanted to know why they didn't make the team was encouraged to call and make an appt with him and he would speak to him privately. He always handled the cut kids with grace and poise all the while encouraging them to not give up, work hard if it's their goal to play baseball or to find that "thing" in life they were meant to do. Class act.

Coach, thank you for reminding all of us that the one thing that still exists today in athletics is human touch. It can make an impact on a young person for life, either positively or negatively.
Last edited by YoungGunDad
there is no easy way to cut players especially seniors. during my tenure I always looked down the road a year or two. As a junior or sophomore is the player going to be part of the plan when he was a senior? If there was a doubt sometimes letting the player go then although not easy was a lot easier than doing it senior year.
whatever the method list? phone call? face to face? nothing is easy.
the problem also arises as the years go by the talent competition becomes stiffer. That kid that was the all star in little league at 11 and 12 and was on the tournament team is now 14 or 15 and there are kids trying out for the high school team just as good or maybe better. Can they make the grade? Can they handle the competition. It is all about challenges.
I agree that there is no easy to cut players. The times have changed---now it has to be done in a PC manner--- they are are afraid of scarring the "poor childs mental outlook " for life

When I was in HS the list was posted on the bulletin board

When I was in LL the list was posted in the local corner candy store

Sports are a learning process for "real life"----what will this kid when she gets turned down for her first job or does not get into the college of her choice?---todays kids need to be "kicked in the teeth a few times"---they need to learn that nothing is a given.

In this case it must be that the coach had better and more talented players coming out for the time and he made a decision that is best, in his mind , for the team. This young lady can now go on with her life.
quote:
todays kids need to be "kicked in the teeth a few times"---they need to learn that nothing is a given.


TR - Wow. You're truly an inspiration for young coaches.

Maybe your advice is the by-product of your experience. Perhaps if your coach had spent more time on humility, you might be able to offer better advise on this board.

I think Coach 2709 had it right, certainly there might be better ways to deal with this young lady.

These are student-athletes - not professionals. I think showing some concern for her well-being is admirable, as a coach and as mentor.
Last edited by hitenrun
I'm the furthest from being PC based on the way I stay in trouble for the things I usually say and I'm not changing. That being said what I posted isn't about "not scarring their mental make up" it's about commong courtesy and dignity. Especially if it's a kid who has proven they are a great kid. You do have to keep the most talented players and let them play but if you got a kid who has enough talent to make it the past 3 years it ain't going to hurt you to give them a uniform and be a part of the team. Plus - if it's "that kid" you are probably going to get great leadership from a kid who might not step foot on the playing surface. "That kid" will probably keep working hard and mentoring the younger kids on how to do things right.

As for the preparation for the real world and not getting a job or into the college you want it's not the same thing. When you apply for a job usually not every applicant is sitting there in one room or nearby. It's not possible to sit down with every applicant and tell them yes or no unlike a high school team. When I was applying for jobs last year I got turned down by email and phone call but I was also several hours away so it wouldn't be possible to hear it face to face.

The college part has so many applicants (and the distance) that it's not possible to meet them face to face. When a college rejects close to 100 (just throwing a number out there) you can't meet face to face.

Plus - you probably don't know the person interviewing you for job and college. That's probably the first time and only time to ever meet them so who cares. This is a kid who has played, sweated and worked hard for this coach. There is a personal relationship in place and I feel that deserves the common courtesy of a face to face meeting.

I also agree with Will that the best thing to do is try and project them early on and cut them before they become a senior. But if they get there as a senior and are a good kid I'm going to give them a uniform but they will also know going in where they stand. "That kid" will probably still be a huge asset just in leadership for your team.

Maybe I'm just a big softy but I also believe I have prepared kids for the real world.
quote:
todays kids need to be "kicked in the teeth a few times"---they need to learn that nothing is a given.


Trhit

the problem is that today a lot of kids can't take the kick in the teeth because they have been brought up in the culture of everybody is a winner everybody gets a trophy etc etc .
I have been out of coaching for a while and I genuinely believe I would have a hard time now dealing with the PC self esteem issues.
some of the things that I did in my coaching tenure would now maybe bring me in the principals office.
things like

1 getting on a player when he screws up(no I am not going to tell him to forget about it because he will and do it again) and yes maybe hollering at him. Never used profane language

2. dont hustle I take you out of the game I do not care who you are. I once took a player out of a playoff game because he loafed on a ground ball. today i might be accused of ruining his chances for a scholarship.(the funny thing he probably did it himself if anybody was watching)

3. Miss a sign I am on you (see #1)

4. you do not perform there is somebody on the bench that will and yes I do not care you are a senior.

5. Seniors play? i do not know how that got started.



2.
Coach 2709:

Like you I have trouble with what was done in this situation.

In my mind, I really don't see high school sports as being like a job. The kids in the school are all a part of a community - and while the process of earning playing time starts from scratch each year (and continues as a daily battle), it is not the same thing as applying for a job as an unknown commodity.

If I had to use the job analogy, it is like returning to a seasonal job you have had for three years and are returning for your fourth. Almost like a life guard at the community pool.

As far as I am concerned, a senior who has played varsity in the past has paid their dues, made their contributions to the program, and have earned more consideration.

With our local high school baseball program, if you have played all three years in the program prior to your senior year, assuming that you are not a problem player, you will get a uniform your senior year. You will have a one on one with the head coach where he explain your role on the team and that you won't get much playing time - but you will get a uniform and I can't remember one player who didn't get at least an at bat and an inning in the field so as to qualify for a letter.

What was done to this volleyball player was cold and not what I would like to see done to anyone. Going back to the job analogy - she got fired by sending her a letter saying don't bother to come into work tomorrow - after three years on the job. Firing someone like that would be unacceptable in any profession I am aware of.
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
I agree that there is no easy to cut players. The times have changed---now it has to be done in a PC manner--- they are are afraid of scarring the "poor childs mental outlook " for life

When I was in HS the list was posted on the bulletin board

When I was in LL the list was posted in the local corner candy store

Sports are a learning process for "real life"----what will this kid when she gets turned down for her first job or does not get into the college of her choice?---todays kids need to be "kicked in the teeth a few times"---they need to learn that nothing is a given.

In this case it must be that the coach had better and more talented players coming out for the time and he made a decision that is best, in his mind , for the team. This young lady can now go on with her life.
I don't have any issues with the team list being posted on a board. Then if the player (not parents) want more information the coach should talk with them. In the case of a senior who's been with the program all along, I like to see these kids get uniforms if there's an extra and they understand their place on the team.

A senior on my son's team was always the first out of the dugout on foul balls. He was nicknamed Bird Dog for chasing fouls/fowls. He was good natured about it. It was important for him to be part of the team. At the beginning of the season the kid thought he had a shot at starting. It was my son's (a soph) position. When my son started 1-9 this kid was his biggest fan reminding him he could get it done. When he missed half the season after a car accident my son commented, "I'll bet the parents have no idea how much dugout leadership we lost."
quote:
A senior on my son's team was always the first out of the dugout on foul balls. He was nicknamed Bird Dog for chasing fouls/fowls. He was good natured about it. It was important for him to be part of the team. At the beginning of the season the kid thought he had a shot at starting. It was my son's (a soph) position. When my son started 1-9 this kid was his biggest fan reminding him he could get it done. When he missed half the season after a car accident my son commented, "I'll bet the parents have no idea how much dugout leadership we lost."


Thanks for putting this RJM because this is the point i'm trying to make about this kid. I have no doubt that this young lady would fulfill this role. The makeup of the team is more complicated than just getting talented players. Obviously talent is the goal but at some point you got to mesh it together.

I will say this - volleyball's loss is our football team's gain. Without being asked she has started showing up to football practice and jumped into helping out with whatever we need. Just this week she has been very valuable in our practices running more smoothly.

While I personally will not post a list I don't think that those guys / gals who do it are wrong or will try to change them. I'm just not going to do it because I think it's more important to see them face to face.

It is what it is and that's just the way I feel. Everyone has to do what they think is best.
The outlook has changed for parents, and because of that, many have passed it on to their kids.

My travel team has moved to 13U...and we're going to 60/90, and not delaying the inevitable by playing 54/80 for a year.

Several players from the 12U season at 50/70 simply won't be able to compete on the big field.

Parents don't see it. Kids do. They know already who will struggle on the real field.

Some parents are still lost in a fog.

Personally I'll probably post my roster on our team website.

I don't see anything wrong with that.
quote:
Personally I'll probably post my roster on our team website.
Offer to explain shortcomings and how to improve. The way to come across that you care since these are kids you've coached for a few years is, challenge them to improve, come back next year and prove you wrong.
Last edited by RJM

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