No Field Umpire

quote:

Originally posted by coachbyrd:
Last night we were playing in a close game. Their kid hits a grounder to my pitcher who makes the out at first......but there is no field umpire. Apparently, he was in the bathroom. The home plate guy gave the play ball signal. Noone realized he wasnt there until noone was there to make the call. The guy was clearly out. The two umps got together and said it was no pitch and we had to replay it. Needless to say, I got tossed.

What should have happened?

You should not have acted in a manner that would get you tossed.

Aside from that the corrective measures follow a timeline: First, the BU should have waited. Next, if he absolutely, positively couldn't have waited, he should have communicated with his partner.

Then, his partner should not have allowed play to begin until he was back and in position.

If the BU and PU were dumb enough to not consider any of the above, two outcomes could be argued and I could be convinced of both.

First, the runner is safe. An out needs to be observed and this situation is not one of the do-overs listed in the rule book.

Second, since neither team is supposed to get an advantage not intended by rule, play it over.

Some might argue that this not covered by rule and the UIC needs to make the decision. This would still result in one of the two options listed above.

In no scenario should the batter runner be ruled out if it was not clearly observed.

In any event, both umpires should be disciplined for their lack of focus and professionalism.

First of all what the heck is the BU leavinmg the field in the middle of the inning if not for an emergency---if he needed the bathroom that bad he could have called TIME and run to the "head"

To claim it is a "no pitch" is totally ludicrous--the home plate umpire couldn't see the play at first?

Jimmy0000 stop making excuses for the umpires---in this case they totally screwed up and what the heck is this "do over" stuff--we did that as kids back on Long Island, in the Bronx and in NY--and we didn't need umpire

WOW!!! and you wonder why I have problems with you guys in blue, yellow, red or whatever color you are wearing that day

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Jimmy0000 stop making excuses for the umpires---in this case they totally screwed up and what the heck is this "do over" stuff--we did that as kids back on Long Island, in the Bronx and in NY--and we didn't need umpire

WOW!!! and you wonder why I have problems with you guys in blue, yellow, red or whatever color you are wearing that day

No, I just wonder why you have such problems reading.

Where the he!! did I make any excuse for the umpires? No where.

I began my post explaining this never should have happened. I answered what should be done if it did happen, not as any excuse, but to answer the question posted. I believe I even ended my post stating disciplinary action was in order.

Once again, TWhit, your bias against all umpires has affected not only your thinking, but even your reading comprehension.

You have me at a disadvantage. I am confined to the rules and accepted practice, whereas you, apparently, can read into posts anything you want and then pull accusations out of your butt.

And after spending your time misreading and ranting, you still failed to regale us with your answer to the questions in the OP.

TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOUR ANSWER JIMMY03! BUT THESE UMPIRES SHOULD HAVE COMMUNICATED IF NOT AT/BEFORE THE TIME OF THE PLAY BUT AT THE VERY LEAST IN PRE-GAME, AND WHAT WAS THE PLATE UMPIRE DOING AT THE TIME OF THE PLAY...HE SHOULD BE WATCHING THE RUNNER GOING UP THE LINE TO FIRST. IS HE IN THE 3FT LINE? IF HE DID THIS HE COULD HAVE MADE THE CALL HIMSELF!

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
In no scenario should the batter runner be ruled out if it was not clearly observed.

In any event, both umpires should be disciplined for their lack of focus and professionalism.

agreed 100%

First, I agree with Jimmy's response. He made it clear that this should never happen but possibly how to proceed if it does.

The last thing umpires should do before the ball is put into play is communicate in some form (a point or a wave) to each other that they are ready to go. It's taught and stressed to Umps everywhere.

That having been said, I have to agree wholeheartedly with POLOGREEN. If the plate Ump was doing what he should be doing on this play, even without his partner on the field, he should have been able to make this call.

coachbyrd,

It must have come up in your "discussion" with the plate Ump as to what he saw on the play. How did he respond?

quote:

Originally posted by POLOGREEN:
TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOUR ANSWER JIMMY03! BUT THESE UMPIRES SHOULD HAVE COMMUNICATED IF NOT AT/BEFORE THE TIME OF THE PLAY BUT AT THE VERY LEAST IN PRE-GAME, AND WHAT WAS THE PLATE UMPIRE DOING AT THE TIME OF THE PLAY...HE SHOULD BE WATCHING THE RUNNER GOING UP THE LINE TO FIRST. IS HE IN THE 3FT LINE? IF HE DID THIS HE COULD HAVE MADE THE CALL HIMSELF!

Agreed, as I posted, lack of communication (after lack of control of bodily functions) was the initial downfall.

The OP doesn't tell us where the PU was or what he was doing during the play. Assuming no outs, he should have been trailing the batter runner to first. If he was performing his mechanics properly he could have made the call.

Just a sh** fest, in more ways than one, apparently.

TRHIT response does not surprise me in the least. He has an issue with umpires, as a matter of fact he argued in an an earlier post that there shouldn't even be umpires in 8 year old baseball and if there are, they should only be there to insturct players.

I can see it now a coach spends 2 months teaching his player how to hit and field, then some schmoe umpire runs out on to the field and thinks he's going to instruct the player in the proper way to play the game in a matter of seconds.

The umpire should have been able to make the call at first, it sounds to me like he lost his courage. I would be willing to bet the other team was raising he** as well because the base umpire was not on the field. If the batter/runner was out and he saw it, he should have made the call, then waited for his partner to return, finish the game, then afterwards read his partner the riot act.

cccsdad

God forbid I surprise anyone---and I still say you do not need umpires for 8 year olds in a game

There was a runner on third. The home plate umpire said he had his eyes on that runner. No call was ever made at first. I got thrown out by the guy that was in the bathroom. He started hollering at me because I asked him if he was a rookie. I never raised my voice or anything. IMO, he just did it cause he realized he was in the wrong. I had never had these guys before. I called our head of umpires this AM. I don't know what will happen with this situation.

quote:

Originally posted by coachbyrd:
There was a runner on third. The home plate umpire said he had his eyes on that runner. No call was ever made at first. I got thrown out by the guy that was in the bathroom. He started hollering at me because I asked him if he was a rookie. I never raised my voice or anything. IMO, he just did it cause he realized he was in the wrong. I had never had these guys before. I called our head of umpires this AM. I don't know what will happen with this situation.

"Watch the ball, glance at the runner."

PU, even with R3, has responsibility for a pulled foot or a swipe tag at first. In covering that, he should have seen he had no partner and made the call.

The assigner should suspend these bozos.

(Now, let's see how good ol' honest TWit turns this around.)

quote:

Originally posted by coachbyrd:
There was a runner on third. The home plate umpire said he had his eyes on that runner. No call was ever made at first. I got thrown out by the guy that was in the bathroom. He started hollering at me because I asked him if he was a rookie. I never raised my voice or anything. IMO, he just did it cause he realized he was in the wrong. I had never had these guys before. I called our head of umpires this AM. I don't know what will happen with this situation.

Maybe I'm wrong here but it seems to me that it's a bigger cluster than originally thought. When I read what Coach put in the OP I was thinking the catcher threw down the last warm up pitch and the first batter steps in. The field ump went to the bathroom at the end of the last half inning but didn't make it out in time and the plate ump just didn't look down to first.

Now I'm thinking that a batter was at the plate and reached base all the way around to third and sometime in there the field ump just left to go to the restroom without telling anyone. How in the world could this guy even remotely think this is right?

But if there is a runner at third shouldn't the field ump be in the field behind the mound where the plate ump should be able to see him?

TR I respect you, enjoy reading what you post and willing to learn from what you have to say but you are wrong in your beliefs of umpires. There is no real point in attacking every one of them like you do on here. Umps are just like coaches, players, parents, lawyers, doctors, ditch diggers and anything else - some are great, some are terrible and most are pretty good at their job but are going to make mistakes.

I agree nothing drives me up the wall more than an unprofessional ump who doesn't have a clue. But there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do about it. Tell the assigner ump so and so needs more work and hopefully they get it. But to just have a distaste for umps overall isn't right.

You're right, coach. As more information is given, these two umpires look worse and worse.

With R3, the BU should have immediately noticed that the PU wasn't there.

Now, how long has he been gone? Was he there when R3 batted?

It's really difficult to understand how this was allowed to ocurr on both umpire's part.

However, still, BU's job, if performed correctly, would have given him enough of view to make a call at first.

These guys deserve all the condemnation they've been give, but there is no need to blame the next umpire for their screw-up.

I've had a few coaches that wouldn't know a rule if it bit them in the a$$ and who can't walk out of the dugout without "asking" for an ejection. But I don't take the actions of those few and put it on every coach I come into contact with in the real world or on the internet.

The vast majority of coaches and umpires I work with do their jobs well and we part company amicably after our games.

You can tell it's 'game on' when TRHit & the umpires start mixing it up.

My question is, "Are the US Curlers Throwing Enough"

Not tonight, but after this we won't talk curling for 4 more years, which is probably the majority of the problem...

What a cluster! BU screws up by not being there, PU screws up not noticing then compounds it by not having a call at first. What the heck level was this?
With all that a doover is the worst answer. None the less, getting tossed for it ranks right with their screwup. Argue it or protest it but be smart about it.
TR, if you have a valid point of view then present it. If you just want to snipe then don't post. We can take a disagreement with no problem but straight umpire hating is not needed.

Here's a suggestion for trhit....take the umpire's test in your state THEN see if you want to question all umpires. I was, and still am, a high school coach for over 20 years. I also coach college players in summer leagues, so I've been where you are. I then took my umpires test in my state and I have to honestly say that it was one bugger of a test and I found a whole new respect for umps! You THINK you know the rules and have the luxury of spouting your opinion during an argument. I felt for 23 years that I was right in every argument, even the ones where I was tossed. Now I KNOW I was only kidding myself and was bending the rule for my benefit...like every coach.