Northern Schools

DP:

The obvious questions are what does he want to major in? What year is he? What kind of a student is he? What are his baseball credentials? What type of a school is he looking for; big,small, urban, rural? What can you afford with or without baseball money?

I'm sure the board will be able to help you more if we had some of this information. One of the things I'm sure you will hear is to use this information to narrow down your choices and contact the programs directly.

Good luck dad, enjoy the trip!

DPEite99,

We really want to help, and you have a lot of folks that are ready to help out. As 3rdgetnerationnation points out, we need a little bit more info to get started. Trust me, you will get feedback. When you say "North", I assume you mean north of Maryland (Mason-Dixon). Others may think you mean Northen California, Oregon or Washington. Please clarify location, and some of these other points.

Academic Goals
Baseball Goals
Major, GPA, SATS/ACTs, Class rank
Division 1,2,3?
We'll assume he is a pitcher from your fastball comment.
Experience (playing Varsity and Travel team?)
Big School/Small School?
Finances - Seeking athletic scholarship, academic scholarship, generous financial aid, or just don't care as long as it reduces your overall burden....?

Thanks Guys- here is the info

Potential majors are Sports Management/Marketing and also Physical Therapy, exercise kniesieology, etc.

Baseball goals are to be able to play somewhere, prefers Florida or Deep South but depending on academic program is willing to consider other more northern schools east of the Missisippi.

High School Spohomore with a 3.5 weighted GPA (3 honors classes this year)

Played JV as a Freshman, also travel team 16U that would play against 18U past two years.

Currently 3 weeks into rehab for TJ surgery. At this point open to all divisions, we realize he is probably not D1 unless velocity really picks up to 90 by his senior year. That would be a reach wouldnt it?

RHP with 2nd position at 1b, However bot HS and Travel coaches want him to focus on pitching.

Was gunned at a JuCo camp at 77 in November (while his UCL was torn)was working on curve and had a good changeup. Was told he threw a "heavy" ball.

Size of school has not been determined but leaning towards smaller student populations. We have college fund set aside, will apply for grants and academic scholarships. Would be extremely pleased and suprised if he got any kind of offer over and above books, or 1/4 tution, etc. (but I may be selling him short-don't know enough at this point)

15 years old, 6-4" 185.

Thats about everything I can think of.

For what you say your expectations are, I would focus more on the academic side. Narrow the schools where he can excel in his field and THEN secondarily look to see which have baseball teams.

Caution: At 15 he may still be too young to know what he wants a career in. Many good Liberal Arts and Business schools offer programs such as you mention. Has he taken career preference tests?

I'm 50 and I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up!

quote:

Originally posted by DPElite99:

Currently 3 weeks into rehab for TJ surgery.

RHP with 2nd position at 1b, However bot HS and Travel coaches want him to focus on pitching.


15 years old, 6-4" 185.

I had to laugh because you might have saved us a lot of time if you'd just posted these few items.

How tall are you? How tall is your wife? Your son sounds like a pitcher, tall, lean and with his first TJ surgery out of the way. It may be impossible at this stage to know where he'll fit baseball wise so I'd suggest he find schools he might like and take it from there. Good luck with his rehab!

No more curves at 15 with his body type--at least for another 18 months! Have him perfect his change-up first.

DPElite, there are lots of schools in Florida that have those majors. UCF, UWF, Flagler come to mind right away. Santa Fe has a new program that transfers to the Sport Management program at UF, I believe.

2BMom, Thanks for the tip on Santa Fe- we will look into that.

But back to the question, in terms of the northern schools, because he is from a pretty good HS baseball program in a good state, would it generate more interest with us contacting schools directly rather than say another player from, say Kentucky or Indiana?

Regarding my expectations, my wife and I are trying not to place any undue expectations on him, we are just supporting him as far as he wants to go. Personally, I have trouble believing what we continue to hear from florida college and university coaches that "for a florida kid, there is always a place to play".

He wants to play and I am assuming from what I have heard that it may be possible for him to get more looks, consideration, etc. from northern schools rather than UF, FSU, UCF, FAU, etc.

Maybe it just me as a Northerner but I take some offense to your belief and quote--"for a florida kid, there is always a place to play."

Add to this the fact there are ample Florida and southern colleges that DO offer your sons major--and it seems evident you just think your Florida kid has got to be better than whole bunch of our northern sons.

To that I say send him up here and we'll see if he can survive the winters first then the talent second.

I re-read your quote and I note where you say you find it hard to believe the quote--so perhaps an apology is due...unless you threw the quote in there as a means of making your point that your Florida kid has got to be better than our Northern boys--in which case I stand by my previous post.

The whole "his major is up here" thing knowing same major is offered down there has me leaning toward you think he can waltz on to any Northern campus and play college ball better than our kids and just because he is from Florida.

Sounds like you are not real confident he can play college ball in Florida.

quote:

Originally posted by slotty:
No more curves at 15 with his body type--at least for another 18 months! Have him perfect his change-up first.

Curves aren't the problem. Improperly thrown curves are the problem. Bad mechanics of any pitch are the problem. Overuse is a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by ne14bb:
Maybe it just me as a Northerner but I take some offense to your belief and quote--"for a florida kid, there is always a place to play."

Add to this the fact there are ample Florida and southern colleges that DO offer your sons major--and it seems evident you just think your Florida kid has got to be better than whole bunch of our northern sons.

To that I say send him up here and we'll see if he can survive the winters first then the talent second.

How well does he pitch in 38-40 degree weather with the wind chill in the upper 20's? It doesn't matter where a player is from. He still has to have talent and the right attitude.

quote:

But back to the question, in terms of the northern schools, because he is from a pretty good HS baseball program in a good state, would it generate more interest with us contacting schools directly rather than say another player from, say Kentucky or Indiana?

No.

I heard a DI coach from a school in the northeast comment that they recruit in the NE and midwest (and not the south) because the kids in those areas know how to prepare and play in the NE weather.

ne14bb:

Talent has nothing to do with geography. The best players are the best players anywhere. Some might be from CA, some from Massachusetts some from Ohio and Illinois, etc... That said, I do believe more better athletes play baseball in the south than they do in the north just as more better athletes play hockey in the north than in the south. They also can play more because of the weather, have access to better coaching, facilities and competition. So..... yes, I would expect to find more talent -- lots more talent -- on the ball field in Florida or Texas or California than in any northern state, but that is not an insult, that is a product of circumstances.

Jemaz, with all due respect, not all high schools in the north have hockey teams/rinks. None of the high schools in our area have a hockey team - it is an expensive sport. Plus, it is a winter sport. In the area where I live, baseball is a big sport, played spring/summer/fall. Lacrosse does pull potential talent from the baseball program, which dilutes the talent, especially at smaller high schools.

Sweeping generalizations about talent is a dangerous thing. When we moved to Connecticut from Houston we were told (by Texans) that we would see a huge drop off in talent on the field. This has not been the case, but I can only speak from my own experience.

That being said, large high schools have a higher probability of having better players, just a statistical fact because they have a larger pool to pull from. I suspect this is more of a factor than geography.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jemaz:
ne14bb:

Talent has nothing to do with geography.

Sounds like we agree though you seem to object to my post. You should have addressed Mr. Florida.

Maybe this will help.

Major League Baseball Players by Birthplace
A Historical Analysis

Although just states where they were born not played as a youth or in college still can give it a (+/-) either way and this says enough about highest level of talent and where it has historically come from.

Massachusetts(646)- Pennsylvania(1,350)-
South Carolina(168) - Florida(401)- Texas(796)
Virginia(268)- New Jersey(404)- New York(1,098) North Carolina(380)

Here is complete list: http://www.baseball-almanac.co...ayers/birthplace.php

History shows NY alone almost triples Florida on the baseball talent scale at the highest level of the game. PA does triple Florida and even NJ is higher!

Wow. Well it seems everyone is quick to assume I made a slight against northern kids.
1. This is what I heard from College coaches IN FLORIDA. Their reasoning as they explained was that many players are playing 9-10 months out of the year. As I am going thru this the first time-I was asking a general question as to the validity of that assumption.

2. Yes my son does pitch in 32-48 degree weather and oftentimes does pretty well.

3. There are some state schools in the North that have cheaper tuition than those private schools down here. Given the fact that 4% of HS players actually play D1 (so I am told) it seems that it is a reach for most any player to count on a D1 offer or chance to play.

4. Why should I limit his chances just to play in Florida? I was asking (apparently very poorly) if any coaches on the board had suggestions on how to get more schools outside of those within a days drive, other than the direct contact or to attend a camp.

My apologies if anyone was offended.

Apology accepted and I extend same to you.

Look you are correct about the low% of HS players that do move on to keep playing the game beyond HS.

You absolutely have to get your son out there in front of as many college recruiters/coaches as possible. You are free to choose whatever geographical boundaries to get him the exposure he needs in those areas and get him to the next level.

Ultimately it will be his talent, desire and efforts that gets him on any college level team in the country.

Wish you success.

DEP, sounds like you are getting Florida-centric thinking like I was getting Texas-centric thinking before I moved to the Northeast. I think you are right - it does strike a nerve for us in the area, and perhaps we overreact.

Good luck to your son.

I'm from the northeast and I didn't take it as the OP putting down our kids from up here.

DPElite99

Obviously your son won't be doing much this year as he is only 3 weeks out from his TJ surgery! If next year he is throwing well and you want to be exposed to northern teams I would think a trip to New England to compete in the PG 2012 Northeast Underclass Showcase might do the trick.

Good luck to your son with his rehab!!! My son is in week 8 himself...long way to go!!

real simple play in a couple of tourneys with a good team that is based in the north. Let the coach know that your son is looking to attend a school(be specific if possible) in the northeast. Done. My son played with a southern team and he played in front of plenty of sec coaches.

NE14BB,

Congratulations for demonstrating that statistics, properly tortured, can be made to confess anything.

History may indeed show what you believe, but the present does not.

Of your 1098 NY players, 269 made their ML debut before 1900, and 757 made the show before 1960.

Of the 401 FL players, 0 appeared in the majors before 1900, and only 37 before 1960.

Among players born after 1975, there are 154 Floridians and 43 NYers. About the 3:1 ratio you assert, but the other way around.

Whatever chronological slice you choose, the later the sample, the more heavily skewed it is to Florida.

Oh, and I'm sure it was an oversight not to include California in your numbers. It couldn't have had anything to do with how inconvenient it is to your theory that talent doesn't respect geography.

DPElite99,
You didn't do anything wrong. It's an article of faith among some of our northern friends that their kids are smarter, their schools are better, and their ball players are tougher. Like all of us, they can get cranky when cherished beliefs appear threatened.

Swampy...

I had to laugh at that one. I knew that as soon as the pixels were drying on the screen that somebody would point that out.

Count me as a northerner whose rose-tinted glasses long ago shattered in the cold. No illusions about the geographic demographics here.

ne14bb:

I will put it differently and a little more harshly:

1. Although lots of good players come from the northeast, not many very good teams because the depth of talent compared to the Sunbelt states just is not in the same universe.

2. There are statistics and there are statistics. Maybe once upon a time Massachusetts had lots and lots of good players in comparison to Florida, but I just cannot see that today.

And, by the way, I have lived in the northeast and my brother (and nephew) is in Connecticut now, so it is not like I have not actually seen at least some of this for myself.

If it is the toughest competition in the nation you are looking for at an 18U level, the places to go -- almost automatically -- are CA, TX and FLA. The best players from those states will then be drafted or sign with top level D1 programs. The next couple of tiers can do very well in many places, including the northeasst. Some of them, as it has been pointed out here, will have a tough time adjusting to the weather. Others will have an even tougher time with the distance from home. But, by and large, lots of them will elevate the play of the rosters they populate. If I were a coach for one of these schools, I would go to these states for many of these second tier players and I would, as a result, probably win a lot more than would otherwise be the case.

My son’s program is year-round and expensive. I believe that the reason it is expensive is due to the extensive travel into the south. We come up with that monthly payment partly because of that southern opportunity. The boys play a short spring season here and then we virtually don’t see our kids through the summer. They are down south. Regionally, the program is highly successful in the northeast however; all of the focus seems to be with being competitive in the south.

In 2012, at 16U, my son will make those trips. It will be bittersweet. I won’t be able to afford to go watch but a few. I feel I will lose touch with watching him face the strongest competition he has faced to date.

This is an interesting discussion. I also believe good players can come from anywhere, and good coaches don't care where the players are from as long as they can play. I don't think there's any doubt Northern coaches would take good Southern players and vice versa. The bottom line is always talent, and coaches assemble that talent the best way they can. As an example, I offer the starting lineup from last season's South Carolina team that won it all in Omaha and the players' native states.
C: Kyle Enders (South Carolina)
1B: Christian Walker (Pennsylvania)
2B: Scott Wingo (South Carolina)
SS: Bobby Haney (New York)
3B: Adrian Morales (Florida)
LF: Adam Matthews (South Carolina); Evan Marzilli (Rhode Island)
CF: Jackie Bradley (Virginia)
RF: Whit Merrifield (North Carolina)
P: Blake Cooper (South Carolina), Sam Dyson (Florida), Jay Brown (Georgia), Matt Price (South Carolina)

quote:

Originally posted by ne14bb:

Major League Baseball Players by Birthplace
A Historical Analysis

Although just states where they were born not played as a youth or in college still can give it a (+/-) either way and this says enough about highest level of talent and where it has historically come from.

Massachusetts(646)- Pennsylvania(1,350)-
South Carolina(168) - Florida(401)- Texas(796)
Virginia(268)- New Jersey(404)- New York(1,098) North Carolina(380)

Here is complete list: http://www.baseball-almanac.co...ayers/birthplace.php

History shows NY alone almost triples Florida on the baseball talent scale at the highest level of the game. PA does triple Florida and even NJ is higher!

Thanks for sharing, NE14. This is a very interesting link. To be fair, if you scroll down and click on the stats for any given recent year, it shows a completely different picture - Florida, Texas and Calif have, by far, the highest numbers.

I grew up in the NE and, in HS, we were the top dogs in baseball and tennis. Senior year, we traveled to Florida for a tennis exhibition. It was our top 7 players (best team in our area) against the fourth string of a Florida school and we got our $#@$es handed to us. I learned a lot about warm weather regional differences at the HS level. Sorry, don't want to add fuel to that debate. Just sharing my experiences.

I have also since moved out west and been involved in plenty of baseball and FP softball national tourneys where Upper Midwest teams kicked butt against unsuspecting ranked Calif. teams. There are, most definitely, great players in most sports from every region. Geographical weather patterns are certainly a factor as far as what sport a player is more likely to excel at.

Oops, I see, as I was forming my post, I was beat to the punch - I must have missed "page 2". Sorry for duplicate info.

Regarding the OP's original request,
Having been there, my suggestions are:

Make sure your son is committed to attending a school far from home if this is a thought you are kicking around. The culture shock, climate shock and inconvience of the distance deserves real consideration. Don't take it lightly. There are great advantages to being close enough to home to get the support you want or need. My son made the adjustments, did well academically and toughed it out but he is much happier closer to home. He transferred to a nationally ranked "northern" DII program by the way.

Be realistic when evaluating your son's potential talent. However unfair you might think it is, the radar gun alone can give you insight into that. Recruiters carry it for a reason. An 82 - 85 MPH fastball is common.......very very common at the DII level. Frequently a top level DII pitcher will hit 90 mph. Your son's size will probably get him opportunities smaller shorter pitchers won't get but that's as far as it goes. He's going to have to overcome TJ surgery and live up to that "potential" projected talent.
My sense is that there are plenty of schools with Sports Management and Kinesiology degrees. It should be no problem finding one in Florida. I would without doubt sincerely consider a JUCO due to finances, flexibility and quality of schools available in Florida.

Had I worked and lived in Florida while my son was developing as a player, he'd be attending college in Florida. Period.

3 weeks into TJ rehab how can we possibly know what type of college ballpayer a kid will be? He's most likely going to miss his So. year and the summer following. If all goes well and he works hard, he'll be back for his Jr. season and could be a 6' 7" monster who is throwing downhill with greatly improved velocity from the natural growth and the conditioning required to recover from TJ surgery.

If he focuses on what he can control now, rehabbing, getting good grades, he'll maximize the opportunities he has in Fl and the rest of the country.

Yeah...what 3G said!

quote:

1. This is what I heard from College coaches IN FLORIDA. Their reasoning as they explained was that many players are playing 9-10 months out of the year. As I am going thru this the first time-I was asking a general question as to the validity of that assumption.

My son has played from March through October in Pennsylvania. That's eight months. From November through February he's worked out at an indoor facility. You're getting outdated information. What may pull top athletes from baseball in our area is it's a s0ccer and lacrosse hot bed.

quote:

"for a florida kid, there is always a place to play".

We heard this all the time, too. It might be something as simple as an easy way to encourage players to broaden their search. I'm sure DPElite had no idea this would happen to his thread! Interesting discussion, though.

DPElite,

You've stumbled into an arguement that may be as old as the Civil War. Baseball talent is everywhere. Let's step over that and get you what you need to start your search. Here are my suggestions. Start broad.

1) Go to collegeboard.org, create a userid and password. Go to their search function and start creating multipl search profiles that get you what you need from the academic side.

2) Go to d1baseball.com and d3baseball.com and research the rosters of the schools that interest you in #1 above. Find out about their select camps and where they will be (tournament & showcases) when your son is healthy again.

3) Try to match up the schools with the baseball programs to about 30-40 schools. Use this website to research feedback and suggestions related to these programs. Once a program really intests your son, have him reach out to the coach with a personal email or phone call.

Good luck. That should be enough to get you pointed in the right direction. Feel free to ask specific questions when you need answers.