NOT making the grades

Fightingsquirrel, you got my dander up.

quote:

---

It called personal responsibility folks.

---

I learned this one from the Tobacco folks: anytime someone starts talking about "personal responsibility" he means that all the responsibility belongs to some person other than himself. If a kid is failing school there's a lot of people who share that responsibility: the kid, his parents, his teachers, his counsellors, etc.
(Now don't take this personal, Fsq; I know you're not this kid's teacher. But think about the significance of what you said, in a million different settings. Putting all the blame on one person is just a self-righteous way to take it off of everyone else who should share at least some of it.)

D'oh!

This topic ALWAYS pisses me off. We have seen the same thing this year. Son is a freshman and the grade problem started with football. Freshman football team lost 6 players (5 starters) after the 1st report card (team had only played 3 games). Nobody came back except for one. He was eligible the day after the last freshman game. Varsity coach let him suit up with the varsity team on Friday night. Great message to all the freshman and JV players that put the time and extra effort in to pass their classes. This kid played 3 freshman games and then failed for 6 more weeks. Let the team down for the whole season then was rewarded and recognized as a varsity team member during the awards dinner. Don't blame the teachers for kids not passing. I have not met a teacher yet who would not go the extra mile if a kid asked for help. Same thing happening now during basketball season. Started the season with 13...13... kids failing that played freshman basketball... only one has came back. As you can tell, I'm really proud of our program. Varsity football coach is also the Athletic Coordinator... guess he doesn't worry about the term "student-athlete". Thankfully my son works hard and gets good grades. Can't wait to see what happens with baseball in a few weeks.

Why does everyone want to place the blame on someone other than the 3 people involved:
1. The student/athlete
2. teacher/educator
3. parents
The teachers should try to correct the problem with a telephone call to the parents but with the large (2000+) schools that many attend today that is sometimes very difficult to get any type of positive response. If the student/athlete is foolish enough to make a D or F on his report card, I will lay money on one thing: Go knock on the front door of that student/athletes home and chances are a fool will answer the door.

The boys high school team meet in the library after school twice a week. This is for them to catch up on anything they may need to and to get help in subjects they may not understand.

Everything has been checked in accordance with the rules so as not to break any rules. They DO all their work. No one does it for them.
If anyone wanted to try this, make sure to contact your athletic director and the state high school association so you won't be breaking any rules.

It also helps with team unity.

I don't know if I want to get involved in this subject, but from personal experience, I want to say that one of the problems is that regular schools cannot teach all the kids that go there. Since I have 2 sons who had learning disabilities, one with ADD and the other with ADHD, we have run the gamut. We put our trust in the school and their repeated phrase of "we can work with him" only to have the one son be hsupposed to be held back in kindergarten, but there was not enough room for him in transitional kindergarten, so they moved him to 1st grade instead. After about a month, we insisted he be put in the transitional program and guess what, suddenly there were 8 new kids in that class the very same day. The kid struggled for yrs. with many fights and arguments at home about him not trying. Finally in 10th grade, we hired a lawyer who only dealt with education issues(previously a teacher and a principal). The school admitted he'd fallen thru the cracks and agreed to send him to a private school but again, he was let down. We couldn't find a school to take him because he was now too far behind. The school eventually more or less just gave him a diploma because I wasn't letting him leave until he got it. He had a horrible school experience because he couldn't participate in any extracurriculars due to grades. Thankfully, sports have been a god send for my other son who struggles at times to remain eligible. He was ineligible 1 time for a wk. last yr. and I called the teacher and left a msg. thanking her. I felt my son sometimes gets by on his athletic ability and after hearing how the coach berated her, I thought she deserved a thank you. She told me no other parent had ever thanked her for doing her job. That's a sad commentary on the good teachers out there.
This is not an easy subject with just one correct answer. Sorry for being long winded but this is a subject that hits close to home.

TRHit-
I totally understand what you are saying, but the problem is that many parents now see schools as their "free babysitter" that takes care of the parenting 1/2 the day! I know that sounds bad, but you'd be amazed how many parents I've talked to over the years that have said, "when they are in school, it's YOUR responsibility to make them behave and do their schoolwork!". Sounds ridiculous but that happens a lot.
Teachers have a responsibility, but they also have way too many kids. My classes are over 30 in every hour, and there is no way that I could check up on all of them. Parents should want to know what is happening in their schools, and they must take the initiative.

I've been reading this thread with interest.... as a mother of a student athlete.... but mostly as that of a teacher. I find myself amazed by some posters beliefs that it is the teacher's fault that students are failing and/or the teacher's fault for not notifying the students' parents. I have taught for almost 30 years, and I am always amazed by responses from some parents [obviously not all!]When I call to let parents know that their child is struggling, they don't want to hear it and make up every excuse in the book. I have found that the longer I teach, the less interest many parents take in their children as students. They do not want homework given, they do not want to help their child study and the first place the finger seems to get pointed when things are not going well is in the teacher's direction . I just don't get it. I am diligent about notifying parents if their child is having difficulty in my class. They may not want to hear it, but nonetheless I continue to try to communicate with the ones who need that extra push. I often leave messages for parents to return my call and fifty percent of the time, I hear nothing! I don't have a secretary...ha ... and precious little planning time, so I cannot always continue to call until I reach certain parents. Usually it is the ones that you need to talk to the most, who refuse to return your calls and check the caller id to see if it is the school or teacher trying to get through! People are so quick to offer critical evaluations of our schools. IF we are honest with ourselves, we will admit that the federal governments' "NO Child Left Behind" Act ......while an admirable sentiment, will remain another unfulfilled dream because DESPITE the finest efforts of our educational pressionals, we CANNOT LEGISLATE EFFECTIVE PARENTING.... AND what people also do not want to realize is that many of these children were left behind long before they entered the halls of our educational institutions. I'm hanging in there though.... I've learned that you can please some people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time... or something like that! I do the best I can!

luvthgame...Very well stated. Thank you for hanging in there. We need more teachers like you.

Luvthegame: Everything you say is true. It's also true, however, that there are some teachers we've called to check up on academic concerns who don't call us back (repeatedly) while others are extremely conscientious. The competence and conscientiousness of people would graph out on a bell curve like 'most everything else - and no matter what you do you end up dealing with people on all parts of the curve...

D'oh!

luvthegame...we need more teacher's like you.

Responsiblity rests with each of us. Parent. Child. Teacher. Admistration. Coaches.

My son did an essay the other day about his basketball coach. Here's an excerpt. It was part of his scrap book for the year.

son's words...

"Coach. H. - He is so disciplined and he works us very hard in practice. The running is the hardest part. He wants us to get better and I think we'll have a good basketball season because everyone is listening to him this year."

Even our kids notice when they have a good teacher...or coach let's say...and I'm all for discipline...and it appears so is my son.

i will have to agree with coach knight. where i teach we give out progress reports every 3 weeks. many teachers email grades every week. we still have kids failing. now where did the teacher go wrong???? maybe the reason most (not all) teachers who seem to be unaproachable is because they are tired of being blamed for everything. how often does a parent go to a teacher with the attitude that my kid is in trouble, i now it is his fault, but what can you do to help us. instead of why are you failing my kid, or what you are doing wrong is.... it just isn't teachers. ask police officers, or anyone in the public service field. a large group of the public EXPECT everything, and work for very little.

before everyone shoots at me. i know there are several exceptions to this statement on both sides of the fence. it just gets frustrating sometimes, when you try to help as much as possible, and you still get griped at.

I've been reading everyone's comments with great interest. Yes, it is easy to blame everyone else when your son is failing but in the end it is his responsibility. My son,a gifted athlete, now 16, a junior, and learned disabled, has had all the help that can be given to him, from us, his tutors, his teachers, his coaches, but he just does not want to do the work involved or make the effort himself. We have nagged, punished, screamed and cajoled but to no avail. My husband and I finally decided this year that we would leave him be and he must face the consequences. Our life at home is much calmer but his future looks grim and it breaks my heart to see him fail. But I believe that it is now in his hands. What else can we do?

HEY

Just because a kid doesn't play baseball due to bad grades doesn't make him a failure

Perhaps his learning situation is better off without the stress of having to be " eligible to play"

I know a lot of gas station owners living very well
-- give him some space and see what happens

TRhit

Short of getting into a FULL philosophical discussion. And letting my “dander” get up, over our whole society's reluctance to "Take responsiblity for one's self" I must say... even with outside support such as teachers and parents. Responsibility for one’s actions still comes down to SELF. And High School is the time when our children need to be weaned from their parents always being responsible and learn that they alone need to be responsible for their actions and decisions and everything/everyone else is just support or help.

Yes parents have responsibilities of their minor kids, and teachers have responsibilities to provide the material to learn but eventually it’s the kid who has to decide what he is willing to do. To learn or not. Parents/teachers can’t cram knowledge into their heads, kids have to decide they want to learn. (I realize there are some situations where EXTRA support is needed)

I want to also mention. Varsity sports are a PRIVILEGE... not a RIGHT. You must earn it. (not your parents or teachers. Although they definitely will support) Only a select few make a VARSITY team. The ones that WANT it and work for it and were born with the god-given talent to develop.

Let’s turn this around a bit. There are SEVERAL criteria to make a VARSITY team. Grades are but one. Fail at any of them and “you” are not on the team. The criteria is well defined.

Besides grades Skill is another. Should we blame the COACH for cutting a boy because he has no SKILL??? Is it the coaches fault for not TEACHING him skill? or not informing the parents at progress report time? Who is to blame for a boy who can’t hit or throw a 80-90 MPH fastball???? The coach???? The Parents??? Oh yes I hear it now... They didn’t take him to batting cages or let him play LL or force him to participate in all the travel leagues. Its their fault...

Or work ethic, Should a player be cut if he refuses to practice? Even if he has skills? If a player misses 4-5 practices to go skateboarding... and is dropped from the team, is it the COACHES or parents fault? They didn’t support him enough? Or they weren’t there to “walk”/force him to practice... I’ve seen that happen, the boy didn’t want it. Was it his parent's/coach's/teacher's fault??

By the time these boys are in HIGH SCHOOL they need to start learning responsibility for themselves and we need to allow them to MAKE MISTAKES and deal with the consequences of those mistakes. Trial and Error is still a very good method of learning. In just a very short time these young men will be adults and they better start learning responsibility sometime.

well put sdbb. i agree. and the parents should not feel like they have failed when the kid does make a mistake. it is going to happen. some are just bigger mistakes that others. i have wonderful, great, supportive parents, that where not afraid to discipline. all this was not enough to keep my brother from experimenting in things he shouldn't

mmac...

My oldest son. Now 29 and a great husband and a hard worker - who by the way is my youngest son's biggest fan...

Well oldest son was not terribly into his academics in high school. He had the same discipline at home. They same homelife. The same rules. The same heritage. The same parents. A few different teachers. He rebelled. His choice.

Well his senior year of high school he got kicked off the baseball team. Probably, the only time he cried during high school. He was our catcher. He made some poor choices.

We grounded him. Took his vehicle. Gave incentives. Discussed. Talked till we were blue in the face. Reasoned with him. To no avail. We too had to let the chips fall....

And thankfully he graduated, entered the Marines and grew up. Wrote me a letter later telling me things a mother longs to hear. He became a responsible adult.

My son had more talent in his big toe, than anyone could hope for in their lifetime...but he did not see his potential.

But...even though we were so upset about this, it became the best lesson for him. He grew up. He made better choices. A great woman entered his life.

He is happy and he is married and he is a joy. It was not the end, but rather a new beginning for him back then...a long road.

Hard. Painful. But at the end of the tunnel eventually the light gave way to a new dawn.....

He was my prodigal. He came home.

Texas 2004.
Thank you. Great post - made me teary! I know my son is a good kid and will do the right thing in the end - but it is a long road. Hearing your story gives me hope.

Bump...

My 05 son was in same situation last year, failing 2 of 4 classes. I had gone to parent/teacher conference, asked teachers to keep in touch, volunteered in the school. Progress reports were to come home before Christmas, but snow days, etc. didn't get them. In Jan. I asked son for progress report and each day it was excuse, until I contacted the counselor to find out his grades. He was failing 2 classes. My question was why hadn't anyone contacted me when he did not return a signed progress report? By this time there were only a few days to pull his grades up. He did fail one class, but got an A on final exam in English to finish with a D. He was able to play baseball, which has always been the incentive in school. If he hadn't been able to play I really worried that he would no longer have seen any point to school. I do feel the teacher did let me down in this instance after I had shown interest in staying in contact. The next semester I requested weekly progress reports be faxed to me, or e-mail grade, but that seemed to be too difficult for the teachers to follow through with.

I know son has responsibility but while is HS teachers also have a responsibility. Anyway, it has always been a struggle with the grades, when he likes the teacher and subject he does well, if not forget it. We have gone through restrictions, etc. His sister always did well in school and continues to do so in her 3rd year in college. Son has just been accepted to play ball at DIII school that was his first choice college. He insists that because this is what he wants he will do well. The extra incentive is he pays the tuition. We will see what happens next year at this time.

I don't know how you get schools to do it, but my sons high school makes grades available for viewing on the school website. It has been a great tool for us. As soon as the student takes a test or gets a grade for homework we are able to pull it up online. One of the best tools our school has came up with.

Both of my boys have done average to good in school. However, my oldest starting in 5th grade did have some problems. K through 4 always good grades, no problems.

1st 6 weeks of 5th grade the report card (and all work for the period) comes home with mostly D's and F's. No nothing from the teacher the entire 6 weeks. I call for a conference to ask and she blatantly tells me her policy is to NOT say anything to the student or parent regarding work that first period to give them a realization that it is MY SONS JOB to do the work and study. I repeatedly told her that I couldn't help my son if I didn't know what was going on and she blatantly told me again that school was HIS JOB, not mine. That entire year was a huge struggle. I had to get the principal involved and the teacher finally agreed to a daily contract with assignments and homework. The teacher wasn't happy about it. My son had to fill out the assignments, then she would initial them, then he and I would sit down and make sure they were done, then I would initial, then she would initial when they were turned in. She would also take off points on all of his homework citing Lack of Initiative. I was so glad when that year was over!!

She also told me that this was the way it was going to be in middle school and high school.

Unfortunately, she was right. Every early indication of grades had to come from me badgering the teachers to find out what was going on. Some would even say that my son should know what his grades were, ask him. Now I'm the type that takes no excuses for my children and won't defend them unless I know FOR CERTAIN that they had absolutely no fault in the situation. However, in middle school I got the reputation as being a badger, because I insisted in knowing what was going on independently of what my son told me. (We have no middle school baseball, so no monitoring of grades there).

Things got a little better once high school started because the baseball coaches were monitoring the grades and as many parents have stated, staying eligible is what motivated him to keep them up.

Finally, four years ago, the state implemented an online grading site, so now the grades are online. Last year, they finally made the teachers start using it on a weekly basis instead of just to post final grades.

So sometimes, it's not the parents not caring, it is the administration keeping the parents out.

We track all our kids grades from the beginning of the year to the end. We get progress reports half way through each grading period. The players are required to bring them to us for our review. We go over them with them and make sure that they get tutors in the classes that they are having problems in. If they are having discipline problems such as "Talking in class, excessive tardies are absences, not doing homework or suspensions we tell them that they will be not be allowed to play if this continues regardless of their grades. We still loose at least one kid every year. This year was no exception we lost a very good player he flunked 6 of 8. You can only flunk 2 of 8 to be elgible. It comes down to what is really important to the player. If he really wants to play he will make sure that he does what he has to do to be elgible. We monitor it we track it and we stay on top of it. But in the end it is up to the young man to take care of his business.

As a former teacher I feel that a phone call to the parents is a must if a students gpa drops below a 2.00 in a class that I was teaching during the grading period. If the parents blow you off that is ok but you did try. I have found over the years that everyone (teachers, parents, & students) get a little lazy at time and we don't take care of business like we should.

At our HS if the GPA falls below 3.0 a lunchtime study hall is mandatory for the baseball players.

CADad...

Like that policy!

.... the policy I prefer is: "No B's, no keys!"

This is my kind of thread - lots of good info/opinions, no sniping.

I share some of these experiences -- lots of good teachers, a number of losers. Our take has always been "You gotta learn to deal with it" - You have bad teachers, bad bosses, bad coaches, etc. You won't get along with everyone. Bottom line: you gotta do what you gotta do to get through, I can't plow the path for you forever. Had a similar experience to what K-loosh writes. [But I ask you, referring to his post - how is anything a 5th grader's "JOB" ?? He has responsibilities and I appreciate the idea of making them take responsibility, but it's his JOB to take care of it??]

Son had a 4th grade teacher that was lazy, ignorant and picked on my son [HAH - no REALLY - she did]. We had a girl's mom call us, who we didn't know [just transferred in] who wanted us to be aware that her daughter came home everyday and told how Ms Smith picked on poor Windmill Jr!! Through intervention with the principal [junior was our third one through that school, so we had a good rep] we got through the year. She too professed her omniscience of Junior's impending doom in MS and HS. Now junior is no rocket scientist, but I strongly believe that his future holds a bit more than the ability to ask, "You want fries with that, ma'am?" Freshmen year was disapointing, but his sister [2 yrs ahead of him] was leaving LARGE footsteps to follow, ahtletically [difficult task] and academically [imposible task]. After much encouragement, nagging, etc, the light bulb illuminated sometime in soph yr. Last semester of soph year was stellar, and first half of this year [we have block scheduling, so end of Jan is end of those classes] Junior brought home his first 4.0 ever!!! Even rearranged his 2nd half classes so he could take Accounting 2 because "it makes sense to take it right after I just finished Acctg 1 - why wait until next year - I might forget some of it" His words not mine!!! You coulda knocked me over with a feather. I fervently hope that Ms Smith is still around in June '06.

HS kids need to take responsibility to study, do assignments, and seek help when needed. It is the parents' responsibility to ensure that it all takes place and that whatever limits are imposed, are enforced [i.e. They take responsibility for their responsibility] I LOVE the "No B's, no keys" policy !! Teachers should applaud parents who care enough to be involved and that want to ensure that their child's progress continues.

We get a mid-semester progress report that we have to sign, but that is still too late sometimes. Our projected catcher for this year was in danger of failing 3 subjects for the report card just issued; rest of the coaching staff was wringing their hands in gloom - WOE IS US! Much relief when he passed all 4 classes - again with block scheduling, how do you fail 2-3 subjects?? You only have 4 classes!! So now everything is cool - he passed. HE GOT 3 Ds AND A C!!! How is that cool?? The best part - HIS DAD IS A TEACHER!!

Quoth Yogi: You can observe a lot just by watching.

AMAZING

All of my son's (5th grade) teachers know me. I am fortunate that I am able to pick him up from school every day and I frequently "pop in" just after school to speak with his teachers and get updates.

We do homework together each day before we do anything else and he understands the importance of good grades.

His teachers also understand that I am completely dedicated and will do whatever is necessary to support their efforts as well.

Obviously, as he gets older, I won't be able to "oversee" his school work, but hopefully, he is learning the required discipline now and will continue in the future.

Without good grades, the options to play at the next level are significantly reduced. More importantly, without good grades many of his other options would also significantly reduce.

Teachers are not responsible for making athletes get better grades! At most schools, kids and parents get progress reports that let everyone involved know the academic situation of the kid. Good coaches also check the grades regularly...at our school, we have a way that I can monitor a kid's grades, attendance, and behavior referrals regularly...which I do. Ultimately, though, it is the responsibility of the parents and the kid to get the job done...I mean, how hard is it to pass 3 out of 4 classes?
Despite all of my involvement, I still had 4 kids (grades 9-12) that are ineligible for the spring season. All that work...and some kids just don't make the commitment, regardless of what you do as a coach and teacher.
To be honest, I don't feel bad for kids that are ineligible...I feel bad for their teammates who expected them to be a part of the family that was going to make a run at a championship!