Notre Dame Academy -- Let The Buyer Beware

Buyer's beware, is that not the case in anything ?

You are a disgruntled parent, so shut your mouth and move OR better yet, move you son back into the "public" school where he came from and PAY no money to attend. How 'bout that !

Families have a "choice" to make :

to attend NDA or not ...

I do not believe the admin officials have "guns" to anyone's heads telling them that they must sign up and pay $15,000 or whatever the fee is to attend ???

What's the old saying, If its to good to be true, then it is.

"It is what it is".

Memorex -- Thank you for the sage advice. Shut up and take it. Good stuff. I'll make a note.

As a matter of fact, that is the approach I took until we found that we had to pay again to get our son the education we paid NDA for previously. The heck with baseball; this is a fundamental failure to deliver on the core mission -- educating kids.

We went shopping for steak; we were sold USDA Grade A steak; we were served a hamburger. It was a good hamburger. But no, we are taking our business elsewhere. I just thought I might share our experience with others in the market so that they may do their due diligence.

Parents need to take "baseball" out of the equation and this goes for selection of a college.

If BASEBALL was not involved, would I be happy here ?

Everyone went to NDA for BASEBALL not an education, please quit lying to yourself.

Sounds like NDA is going back to the type of school that it was about 10 years ago. At that time, NDA was a school for local Middleburg and surrounding area families who had the $ for a small private school where neither academics or athletics were a big priority. Kids who might not make the public school teams were able to play baseball at NDA.

The last few years, NDA seemed to do a lot of "recruiting" and acquired students that were most certainly there only for athletics. Many of these students benefited from the coaches ability to get them into colleges to play ball.

Interesting to hear about the academic deficiencies at NDA. This has always been a question and concern of mine.

My son's good friend had a great high school career at NDA and now plays college ball at a well-respected D-1 school. My son had a great high school career at a local public school and chose to attend a great college, but did not pursue college baseball.

To each his own!

Private schools don't play by the same rules as the public schools because they don't have to. Parents need to be aware of this as they choose the path for their student.

Southpaw: My son just finished his HS career at public school and is now off to play ball in college so I really have no experience with private schools. I do however have a lot of friends that have placed their kids at PVI and I have often wondered about their motivation. All of them tell me it is first and foremost about the academics. I can understand that if their kid was going to one of the lesser rated FFX Co. schools, but when you are talking about Oakton, Woodson, Robinson and Lake Braddock, that reason just doesn't seem to hold water.

It seems to me that the real reason is baseball - and more specifically, the exposure to D-1 schools their kids will get playing for PVI. I don't begrudge them this, I am all for getting good baseball players exposure. Still, I often wonder if they will feel the move (and cost) was worth it if the baseball part does not work out.

I know I'm rambling, but I wanted to satisfy my curiousity about the reasons folks that send their kids to private schools - was your son in a public school district that caused you academic concern?

BTW - Unlike Memorex, I actually think posts such as yours are helpful. I want to hear everything I can (good and bad) about a school that I am considering for my child. I can decide whom I wish to believe - and any place that gets nothing but glowing reviews causes me pause.

NoVa -- I'm happy to give you the background. Baseball definitely played a role in our decision to send our son to NDA, but it was well down our priotity list.

We live in western Loudoun County, where rapid growth, and slow response by public officials, has created a real school over-crowding problem. The schools are good, they are just packed. We knew our son would function better academically in a less chaotic school environment.

Our son is also young for his class, and NDA sold us on the option of a 5th "prep" year, to allow him another year to mature for college. We liked the idea of having that option available. After he was enrolled, we were told that NDA would not be allowing students to "prep" any longer, and if they did make an exemption, the student would no be allowed to play on sports teams. A true bait and switch.

Our son is strong in math & science, and our goal is to get him as strong an education as we can in HS, to prepare him to go wherever his dreams might take him in college. NDA sold us on their having a more advanced math & science program than our public schools -- this also turned out to be untrue.

Then came the baseball. The program at our local HS has a good reputation, but NDA's program had a better reputation. Our son was not a recruited player. He is not a super stud athlete; but he is a very good ball player, who loves the game. Having the ability to play the game at a high level motivates him to bring his best in the classroom as well. This part worked, as he really applied himself in school, and on the field.

I won't take you down the rabbit hole of how the school handled blowing up the baseball program. Suffice it to say that players and parents were left to twist in the wind, being BS'd right up to the first game -- that was cancelled for a meeting to announce a coaching change. Very poor form.

Our son has dreams of attending a top D1 college, and having an opportunity to play baseball in college. Will that happen? Who knows. The odds are long. What we do know is that if we can put him in a HS environment where he can challenge himself both academically and athletically to achieve his best; the rest will work itself out.

Bottom line -- NDA sold itself as offering a top college prep academic and athletic experience, within the confines of a small school, offering more personal attention to students. Not only did NDA fail to deliver, we are convinced the school was well on the way to dismantling what they sold us, while they were telling the tale.

I think NovaParent got it right. NDA will continue to be a nice, small, private high school; but I would not send a kid there who is seeking a top academic and/or athletic experience; and without recognizing there is a real credibility issue with school leadership.

NDA had a good thing going with the baseball program and Coach Lockart. Why did this all go down the tubes ? I really am curious as to how all this happened. I have had two real good athletes play for me who went to NDA, they are both great young men who are now playing D-1 ball.

Side note, is Riverdale Baptist in the same boat, don't hear much about them anymore either.

CV

While I live in Loudoun Co., I do not have a student going to NDA.

For those not familiar, the following article was in the Washington Post, April, 2008 (you may have to do a free registration with WP to read the article, I am registered):

NDA sports article in Wash. Post

Also, here is a link to another thread in this forum regarding NDA and some of the issues brought up by southpaw_dad:

NDA thread from April

cvsting -- You ask HOW this all happened. I'm not sure I can give you a 100% answer. There have been multiple stories told. The WP article got it partially right.

Our family was only at NDA for a year. After speaking with many Board Members, veteran NDA families, and others very close to the situation; I am convinced that it comes down to a poorly functioning, and factionalized Board of Trustees.

I am of the opinion that NovaParent got it right (above). NDA had been a small, private HS, designed to serve families in the Middleburg community, who could afford an exclusive environment for their kids. The primary mission of the school being to offer privacy, moreso than academic excellence.

A decade or so ago, the then controlling majority of the Board of Trustees recognized the school needed to double the size of the student body (to 300) to make the economics work. Recognizing that the school could not deliver a superior educational offering to the public schools, or other area private schools; the decision was made to try to attract the best and the brightest in ahtletics, to differentiate NDA as a school for aspiring student athletes (ala DeMatha).

As NDA grew, more aspiring student athletes came to NDA to excel on the field -- and in the classroom. With that, many average athletes from some of NDA's traditional core "community" could not effectively compete for time on the field. This created friction between the factions of the Board who supported athletics, and those who wished to take the school back.

Over the last couple of years, the "non-ahtletic" faction of the Board has become the financial backers of the school, and gained control of the Board. When they gained control, they chose to make a sudden u-turn, taking the school back towards being a private "community" school.

Follow the money ... always good advice.

At the end of the day, the Board has the power to make this choice. It is their perogative to build the school of their choice. The sad part is that the Board/Administration just pulled the rug out from under students/families who had come to NDA under one set of expectations; and worse, they continued to sell NDA as a school that offered a top colege prep academic & athletic environment to prospective families (like ours) when they were working as fast as they could behind the scenes to dismantle what they were selling. That's just flat out wrong.

My main point -- Know what you are buying. I expect NDA to continue to offer a good (not great) college prep academic experience; in a beautiful, secluded setting; offering a great deal of personal attention to students; and the opportunity for students to enjoy participating in sports, the arts, and other activities. But, if you have an aspiring student athlete, who wants to compete at the highest level, on the field and in the classroom; look beyond NDA.

Southpaw,
Where did your son end up attending high school this year?

gamefan -- My wife and son have asked that I not post this specific info. I can tell you that we spent a lot of time between May and July weighing a wide range of options, and he has transferred to another private school in the region.

It is early, but my son tells me that he can already see that his new school is going to challenge him more academically; and he is looking forward to competing to earn a spot on their baseball team.

Glad you found a spot for your son. Change is not easy - but sounds like your kid has his head on his shoulders. Good for you for working it out together!

I am confused...In April, 2008 the topic starter of this thread mentioned in another thread (in the mid-atlantic section) that the family was "thinking about a move to the metro area" and was interested in schools in the area.

Did your son actually attend NDA for the 2007/08 school year and play baseball at NDA? Am I missing something here?

Doesn't change the good information that has been provided here, but I am just confused about the prior post.

NovaParent -- Our son did attend NDA in 07/08, and did play for the NDA baseball team. By March/April, the furute direction of NDA had become clear -- with more surprises still to come.

Not being pleased with either the NDA situation, or our local public school option, we decided to look for other options in the region -- even if it meant a move.

Not knowing much about the schools in DC, MD, and Frfx Cnty, I asked for input here on the baseball side of things. The feedback we received was very helpful. We did lots of research, and visited a number of schools, doing our due diligence.

Between May & July we became more knowledgeable about Metro area High Schools than I had ever expected to become. We identified a number of great schools; with great academics, good reputations for school environment, and good baseball programs -- both public and private.

Right up to the end of the school year we were speaking with NDA officials trying to find a way to feel comfortable staying there. Sadly, we continued to be told one thing, only to see another materialize. All credibility was lost.

In the end, we chose to transfer our son to another private school in the region. We look forward to him getting a top flight college prep education; and he is looking forward to competing to earn a spot on his new school's team next spring.

Our one regret is that we did not become smarter faster, and that we did not do the research last year we did this year ... But I can tel you where to find some great schools if you need one :-)

I feel like I'm butting in on a private conversation because I'm not from Virginia. We just attended a showcase there, son likes some colleges in VA, and he goes to a small private school in GA, so this thread caught my eye. And this post caught my attention:

"I know I'm rambling, but I wanted to satisfy my curiousity about the reasons folks that send their kids to private schools - was your son in a public school district that caused you academic concern?"

There are lots of reasons folks send their kids to private schools, and YES, buyer beware. Not all private schools are better that public, or equal to each other. They are created to fulfill different missions and parents need to check things out very well before committing. I have one son at a private school that doesn't have strong athletics, but we supplement that shortcoming in other ways. The academics more than make up for this, in my opinion. Vanderbilt Univ. sophomores are currently using the biology text my son's HS junior bio class is using now. The gifted/advanced program at our public schools are about 1 year behind him on average for most classes. Of the 95 seniors who graduated last year, a high% attended Ivies like Yale, Harvard, Brown, Dartmouth, and most were admitted to their first choice schools. These are the questions you must ask if academics are a priority.

My younger son is also at a private school, but a different one that matches his learning style. Were he in a public school he would likely fall through the cracks and not receive the sort of instruction he needs to excel, which is highly individualized.

When looking for a private school, it's like looking for colleges: you try to determine what "fits" your kid, your family values, future goals, and pocketbook. Ask questions, seek info from other families who have graduated, look at SAT score averages from previous classes, acceptances to colleges of prior graduating classes, etc.

NDA's leadership must do what the feel is necessary to maximize what is in the best interest of the school and students.

The NEW coach left for college ball? Who is, was, the NEW coach?

Memorex,

You make it sound like your in the know, your not, the facts as you state them are not correct. Before you blast someone at least take the time to find out the facts:
Fact: potential 07/08 incoming parents where not told about the changes that were in the pipeline. The school maintained that the sports programs were the pride of the school.
Fact: Other then basketball years ago there were no "free" rides. Some years ago the basketball program had benefactors that "helped" pay some student/athletes tuition. All other students regardless of whether they played a sport or not went through the financial aid process. Based on their parents financial situation aid was given (or not). In the years I was associated with the school I had not come across one student that was awarded full tuition aid.
Fact: The baseball team (during the Lockhart years) had the highest academic average at the school. All of his players met the academic standards of the school. During my time there he had players go off to Vanderbuilt, William & Mary, The Air Force Academy & The Naval Academy (one player was on the doorstep to gaining entrance into Harvard).
Fact: The "new" officials you speak of are hardly new. The board members that forced the change have been on the board for years. Their reasons for the change had nothing to do with them feeling or thinking the school "*****d" itself out. If you could be a fly on the wall you would be shocked what the real reasons are.

I do not have a dog in this hunt, but have been reading this thread and am fascinated by the politics and emotions. I had children in private school and still do and know there is no Camelot! However, GTbaseball9, you are certainly going to tell us all what the fly on the wall knows, are you not?

Erik Lemley was the most recent former coach at NDA. He left to coach college baseball at his alma mater UVA -Wise.

Best wishes to Erik as he moves to the collegiate ranks. Erik is a great young man, who has a real passion for the game, and his players. We wish him the best of success in his new position.

"GTbaseball9", since you were the fly, please share your knowledge on this situation.

It would be greatly appreciated and it'll eliminate any potential rumors which we do not need on this board.

Thank You!

The new Notre Dame Academy coach is Kurt Buehlmair from Loudoun Valley High School in Purcellville.

Question, who is Kurt Buehlmair ? Was he an assistant with Head Coach, Wayne Todd ?

No, the new coach at NDA has not been associated with Wayne Todd's baseball program at LV. Perhaps he is a teacher at LV that has been looking for a baseball coaching position.

I undertsand from friends that Coach Buehlmaier is a teacher at LVHS. The LVHS webiste posts: "Mr. Buehlmaier is in his seventh year as an educator. He has served as a Dean of Students, Guidance Counselor, Math Teacher, History Teacher, Psychology Teacher, club moderator, and baseball coach. Last year he was at Clarke County High School. Prior to that he worked at several schools in New Jersey."

I have also had a number of folks call me within the past week to tell me that the NDA Board is at it again. Evidently they have voted to ammend the articles of incorporation to enable them to drop their Catholic affiliation, amongst other things. It would seem that they did this with little or no consultation with NDA Faculty and Families; leaving many people up in arms.

Good luck to Coach Buehlmaier. He has some good kids to work with, who deserve to just be able to enjoy playing High School ball ... as long as the adults on the Board and Senior Administration don't keep screwing things up.

Follow the money ... Something is going on at NDA, and the Board & Administration are not leveling with folks.

It will be very interesting to see how this new Catholic school affects the Northern VA high schools area and current private schools.

This made the front page and back page of the Sports section today of The Washington Post.



At John Paul the Great, An Uphill Climb to Start
Athletic Programs Face Unique Challenges in School's First Year


By Preston Williams
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 5, 2008; Page E01

They bound into the gymnasium to rousing classical music, smiling, decked out in green, black and white jerseys, homemade T-shirts and face paint. Their school is so new that it has no mascot and cannot be found on MapQuest, even when the complete address is provided.

Yet with minimal goading from a teacher, the 200 or so Pope John Paul the Great Catholic High School students, strangers for the most part two months ago, are more than happy to broadcast, in unison, their affiliation.

Their booming chant of "We Are! John Paul!" roared from one end of the bleachers to the other on a recent Thursday afternoon during the first pep rally for the southeastern Prince William County private school.

New high schools open in the Washington area almost every year. John Paul the Great opened this fall for freshmen and sophomores and eventually will accommodate about 1,000 students in grades 9 through 12.

What makes John Paul the Great different is that it will be the largest Catholic high school between Richmond and Alexandria, filling a void for families who pined for a Catholic high school education but not for the rush-hour commute to Arlington (Bishop O'Connell), Alexandria (Bishop Ireton) or Fairfax (Paul VI Catholic) to get one.

John Paul, with a tuition of $8,700 for Catholics and $12,500 for non-Catholics, is located about three miles off Interstate 95 on Dominican Drive. The school's 40 acres, ringed by woods, are tucked in off bustling Route 1 in Dumfries, an unusually pastoral setting for a school with "turn right at the Wal-Mart" driving directions. School personnel have reported seeing deer, turkeys, eagles and ospreys around campus, and the only neighbor in sight has a pet rooster.

A wooden archway greets visitors at the main entrance and ushers them to the chapel, the architectural centerpiece of the $60 million state-of-the-art school with a bioethics curriculum that, according to the school Web site, "tries to figure out whether our use of scientific knowledge dealing with the physical life of human beings is morally good or evil." Students examine such topics as artificial human reproduction, stem cell research, euthanasia and organ donation.



At John Paul the Great, An Uphill Climb to Start

Official POPE JOHN PAUL THE GREAT High School site

Tuition rates for the 2008-2009 school year are as follows:

* Tuition rates for 2009-2010 will not be finalized until January 2009. Please see the '08-'09 rates as an indicator. A modest cost-of-living increase is expected.

Catholic Rate*:

$8700 - First student

$6000 - Second student

$5000 - Third student

Non-Catholic Rate - $12,500 Each Student

For families with a student enrolled at another Arlington DIOCESAN high school, the second student discount may be applied to the student enrolled at John Paul the Great for the period of this dual enrollment.

*The subsidized rate for Catholic students reflects the tithing commitment made by parishioners and parishes in the Diocese of Arlington.



For Many Athletes, Decision Is Private

By Preston Williams
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 5, 2008; Page E06

Prince William County has been losing athletes to private schools in Northern Virginia and Maryland for years.

A review of current high-profile basketball players includes Kendall Marshall (Bishop O'Connell and committed to North Carolina), Marcus Ginyard (UNC via O'Connell), Jason Clark (Georgetown via O'Connell) and Maryland defensive back Jeff Allen (DeMatha).

For many county athletes, however, a 45-minute or longer commute in rush-hour traffic has discouraged moves to private school programs.

But with the opening of Pope John Paul the Great Catholic High School this fall in Dumfries, public school coaches in areas with nearby private schools say coaches in Prince William, Stafford and southern Fairfax counties should start looking over their shoulders and firming up their programs, because the siphoning of talent could be imminent now that there is a new private school option with broad-based athletic offerings close to home.

"We've been dealing with it for quite some time," Potomac (Va.) boys' basketball coach Keith Honore said. "Putting one in your back yard certainly opens your eyes a little bit."

John Paul teams are playing independent schedules and have no current league affiliation. Its athletic aspirations have not been defined, school officials say. But John Paul is in the same Arlington Diocese as Washington Catholic Athletic Conference members O'Connell, Paul VI Catholic and Bishop Ireton, and the new school's fall schedules -- with only freshmen and sophomores, there are no varsity teams yet -- were dotted with WCAC teams.

Some of the school's coaches have WCAC backgrounds, including football coach Carl Patton, a former Paul VI assistant. The WCAC also offered to assist with equipment if the school found itself short-handed this fall.


WCAC Commissioner Jim Leary said "it's a natural fit in a lot of ways" for John Paul to join the conference, although there have been no discussions to that effect.

If John Paul does end up in the WCAC, considered one of the top high school leagues in the country and a steady supplier of college recruits, there is local talent to help stock the new school's empty trophy cases.

In recent years, Potomac (2.4 miles away), Hylton (8.4) and Woodbridge (14.1) high schools have reached Virginia AAA football title games. Potomac, Hylton, Freedom-Woodbridge (4.9) and Gar-Field (8.0) have qualified for the state boys' basketball tournament. Forest Park (6.9) is a state girls' basketball power.

According to the school Web site, John Paul will not offer athletic scholarships but does offer need-based financial aid. In addition to its own facilities -- three unlit fields, a main gym and auxiliary gym, an eight-lane track, wrestling room, well-stocked weight room, and part-time strength and conditioning coach -- John Paul also will have access to a county park planned to be built adjacent to the school.

Longtime Magruder boys' basketball coach Dan Harwood, who for years has contended with private schools in Montgomery County and the surrounding area, some of which recruit, said Prince William coaches need to identify the top players in the middle school feeder programs, acquaint those players with the public school programs and establish relationships with the middle school coaches, who likely will know if a private school is interested in a particular player, or vice-versa.

"I'm not going to stop the kid from talking to a private school, but I still want to make sure he hears what I have to say and the parents hear what I have to say," Harwood said. "My parting line to all those kids and their parents is, 'Okay, Mr. and Mrs. Jones, before we leave, I just want to make sure you know I'm offering you a full scholarship with everything -- free books, free tuition, I can get you tutors, free transportation . . . ' "

When WCAC school St. Mary's Ryken in Leonardtown raised its athletic profile a few years ago, Thomas Stone boys' basketball coach Dale Lamberth lost John Flowers, one of the top talents to come along in the Southern Maryland Athletic Conference in years. Flowers is now playing at West Virginia University.

"Quite honestly, there's not a whole lot the coaches can do," Lamberth said. "You can't tell the coach, 'Hey, don't talk to my kid,' because you really don't have control over that. But you do have control over what kind of program you run and how you present yourself."

John Paul Athletic Director Mark St.Germain said his school would like to establish relationships with the area public schools. Forest Park, Woodbridge and Potomac were on the school's fall schedule.

"Our plan is to follow our mission, and students and families that are attracted by that mission we hope will apply and be interested," St.Germain said. "We're all in the same business of education. My hope is that they're not going to be leery or anxious of us. We're just providing another opportunity for students to get an education."

quote:

Originally posted by southpaw_dad:


I have also had a number of folks call me within the past week to tell me that the NDA Board is at it again. Evidently they have voted to amend the articles of incorporation to enable them to drop their Catholic affiliation, amongst other things. It would seem that they did this with little or no consultation with NDA Faculty and Families; leaving many people up in arms.

I have learned thru a very reliable source that The Arlington Diocese is demanding that the administration at NDA needs to change the school name as the Diocese does not want them associated with the Catholic church since they are changing the by-laws for the new headmaster.

hey milburn, weren't you the coach at NDA that was replaced by Coach Lockhart?

Removed by Coach Milburn

No, I believe the Flowers moved to Myrtle Beach. We didn't arrive at NDA until after Lockhart arrived. Lockhart was the best thing that ever happened to that baseball program. It was Al Flowers who was responsible for getting Lockhart in there as that program was headed nowhere until he arrived. Where have you coached since being let go by NDA? Forsten and Crosby did attend but they were approached by another players parent. We see a pattern, one coach in place, new coach brought in an he turns program into one which is nationally ranked. Schools decides to move away from sports somewhat, coach with much success leaves and original coach contacted about returning. That is a big statement.

Removed by Coach Milburn

Removed by Coach Milburn

The "no" referred to you statement that I might be al flowers and I am definitely not him. If you were as bright as you want us to believe you would do your homework and realize that 4 families with baseball players at NDA now reside in SC. You never answered the question of where have you coached since departing NDA. Like I stated earlier the best thing that happened to that program was the hiring of Coach Lockhart.

Removed by Coach Milburn

you are a funny little man! wrong on all counts.

Knock it off.

Thanks,could the Posters take this back to the Outhouse where this belongs?Let's get back to BASEBALL and away from behind the backstop drama.I want to go back to reading the good fortune that local players have enjoyed.Parents,we have to love ourselves?After reading this post I now see a shining example of why Coaches and Faculty are so happy to avoid us parents,thanks for the example.This Post should now be called "Reader beware".

Amen!

Mr. Moderator,

Can we please get this entire post deleted? This reminds me of the main reason why youth, amateur sports get off track....adults!

Allow me to clarify, as the thread has gone a tad off course.

The purpose of the original post was to give notice to other families of High School aged Baseball Players, who may be considering private schools in Northern VA for their student athletes; that NDA is no longer the school they once were, and at least through June/July of '08 were still presenting themselves to be.

NDA had established a reputation in the region as a top private school for aspiring student athletes; both in the classroom and on the field.

As is their right, NDA is charting a new course that does not necessarily place a focus on excellence in academics or athletics. The school does have many redeeming factors; but as a family that was sold on excellence in academics and athletics -- at a hefty tuition bill -- we have found that reality fell far short of the mark on both counts.

My purpose was to share these facts -- with quantifiable evidence -- with those who may be doing their due diligence today. Just as when in the "Recruiting" thread others are kind enough to warn about how some schools over-recruit, leaving student athletes stuck at the college level.

If this is not an appropriate discussion for this forum, my apologies, and I stand corrected.