Now that you've signed, is it wise to...

With my upbringing I would have to consider it bad form. The only reason to tell how much you get, is to make yourself look better to others. It's much more fun to keep everyone guessing. I wouldn't even tell my own parents. but I would tell everyone - "Hey - my son is playing ball for XYZU!! It's a dream come true for our family!!"

I heard this once:

Tell them son is getting a full ride - some school money the rest from dad

Conversely, is it bad form to ask another parent how much the scholly is?

Beezer - All I can tell you is I don't feel comfortable when that question is asked of me. I feel its a private matter. I don't believe I've ever answered it either...other than correct people who think its a full ride. I then explain to them how rare that is and the whole 11.7 thing.

Random observations about scholarships;

* The kids all know who got what, so the parents all know.

* Many times the amounts correspond to the players contribution.

* Many times there is no correlation between amount and contribution.

* It's not a perfect system.

* The offer and NLI are just the next step in the process. Best of luck to all signing this week and next year.

quote:

* The kids all know who got what, so the parents all know.

Dad04 - While my son ?may? know, I sure don't. We've never discussed it and I really don't know who gets what.

Perhaps I'm just an oddball, but thats the way I prefer it.

jbb,

I neglected to say that I agree with you. Knowing serves no useful purpose and I don't even remember asking, or really even caring. I think good coaches understand realities and try to be as fair and equitable as possible, usually very successfully.

And by the way...I too agree with ALL of your other points too.

I would never ask someone how much they got in scholarship $$. That's like asking how much money you make or (for women) how much do you weigh? Most folks can't resist the urge to tell and you will hear about it sooner or later.

Another observation....How do you know if you got a good deal?

If you and the coach both think it was great deal...2 or 3 years later....

Redhead

I always lie about weight and money. Make my weight less and my money more...........

Amen.

.

Have had occasion to know what was actually given to AND what was loudly claimed by overexhuberant parents...

In the immortal words of JJ Cale..."Lies, Lies, Lies..."

It is better not to believe everything you hear, particularly when it comes to baseball scholarship %'s.

44
.

JBB

quote:

I don't believe I've ever answered it either...other than correct people who think its a full ride. I then explain to them how rare that is and the whole 11.7 thing.

I alway's explain the 11.7, that confuses the heck out of them.
EH

I'd prefer that the players and families not talk about what they're getting. Word does get around, and inevitably one player will feel insecure because another player is getting a bigger offer from the same school. I saw that happen this summer/fall with our own players. It's not a problem too often, but can cause some unease from time to time. And, it isn't information that people generally need to know anyway.

On the other hand, as a coach I generally hear what most of the kids who play with us are getting offered, and like to keep track of what those kids are receiving. That helps me with knowing what to expect for other players coming along behind them. Most of the families and college coaches are pretty cooperative with this information, as they know why I want to know and how its being used. From a coach's standpoint, it always helps to have an idea of what schools are looking for in terms of future needs, and what they might have available to offer financially to student-athletes that might fill those needs.

One thing is an absolute certainty. Those students with high GPA's and test scores have a lot more scholarship options than those with lower grades and scores. In the end, I don't know of many parents who care whether the money for their baseball player son is athletic or academic or a mix of the two. Most parents really care more about "how big of a check do I have to write?" A kid who can receive academic money is a delight not only to his parents, but to his college coaches too, since they are not burning as much athletic money on that kid.

o6catcher I agree. Academic money was always more than baseball money in the offers we received.
I have discussed the amount in general terms when asked if it was to help someone with the realities of baseball scholarships. Most people think you get full rides and I set them straight.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Beezer - All I can tell you is I don't feel comfortable when that question is asked of me. I feel its a private matter. I don't believe I've ever answered it either...other than correct people who think its a full ride. I then explain to them how rare that is and the whole 11.7 thing.

Same here. I was surprised by how many people asked not just about did he get a scholarship which most times was to say congratulations and share the pride, but the ones who wanted to know specifics. I answered with-that we were very happy with the offer an the opportunity for him to continue his dream.

Of course the whole 11.7 thing would need to be explained to a number of them.

The whole 11.7 thing...

I can guarantee you that last night we had parents of some kids who were signing their letters who still don't have any concept of 11.7. I won't go near the others in the room who were there to support the boys.

quote:

One thing is an absolute certainty. Those students with high GPA's and test scores have a lot more scholarship options than those with lower grades and scores.

Sorry to burst your balloon here but that is not the case, in my experiences. And I'l try to only stand on my soapbox for a short while.

I'll start with my own experience.. many years ago. Perhaps it was the institution I went to, but a person had to be SO OUTRAGEOUSLY over achieveing academically to recieve any amount of sigificance. I was a Natiional Merit Semi-Finalist, with a very HIGH SAT and GPA and only recieved $2000 a year..for two years, then my dad started making too much money and they cut that amount even though it was called an academic scholarship. While there where athletes that had a hard time READING getting full rides... Of course I didn't play football or basketball, nor did my parents or HS coach know how to play the recruiting game. Also I ended up getting more college money from going to work for a local techincal company and getting educational re-imburments funding, than from ant other source.

NO - I learned early on that to get any substantial awards, you were better off relying on athletics skills than scholastic achievements. (especially football and basketball if your are male)

Maybe its because I live in a baseball hotbed but I've found it is still true today... Personally, I know lots of kids that have recieved scholarships. But I've seen MANY more Athletes with 2.5 to 2.9 GPAs get accepted and given significant funding to prestigous schools, than I have seen 4.0 Plus GPA scholars with 1400 SATS (but not as athletically adept).

I've known some kids with 4.5+ GPAs and 1500+ on SAT and they did not even get accepted to some schools, while kids who could barely stay eligible to play HS ball get significant offers from the very same prestigiuos Universities. These kids would not even be close to being accepted without athletic skills and then they get good Scholarship money to boot. Hardly seems fair. Just ask the parents of the academic kids.

My own son whose academic acheivements were very substanstial and who earned many academic awards. Only received a minimal amount of academic funding... Less than 5% the amount of the athletic funding he earned, or the amount we eventually had to also pay ourselves. It was a mere drop in the bucket of the overall cost. However, I must confess, He would not be going to the school he is now without his academic skills, but could be going to some of equal acclaim.

It was a big dissappointment to me... as all the the time I kept telling my son to work hard on his grades... and in the end, it made only a little difference,... because he could do one other thing.... swing a baseball bat.

(his grades allowed him to chose amoug any of the top 25 rated schools in the county) (even though a couple of those same 25 schools are ones I'm discussing above, that relax their standards for athletes, and then reward them )

All this said you still have to be in the upper echelon of athletics to get what I'm talking about. But from my point of view, that seems easier than getting to the level academically required for the same rewards.

I think we're talking about the same subject, but along a slightly different track. The point I was trying to make is that if a player is going to get an offer, he'll be more attractive and possibly have a better package if some of it can be academic money.

There are a couple kids who play with us who got very nice scholarships, and the parents let me know that a big part of it was academic money. In another case, the kid had to have certain GPA and SAT scores just to get in. He actually had to take the SAT again in June after he graduated to clear the hurdle. He's at an excellent university now, but without those grades he wouldn't be there at all.

Sorry I wasn't more articulate the first time. I hope this makes the point I was trying to convey a little easier to understand.

Again... its been my experience the finanical aid people will reduce other AID if you recieve substantial Athletic aid, and vice versa. This is a DEFINITE with NEED-BASED aid amounts, and unless there is a PUBLISHED standard (IE some states will pay a given amount for residents with certain GPA standards)

Of course the really smart coaches try to get all the other aid first before using their budgets making that all part of the total package offer. But what I saw was those amounts are not substantial unless you have a definite NEED based income. Where as the coach can come in and make up a big difference to the top recruits with very little academic skills.

Maybe I'm spoiled with where I live but I've seen more local kids get much more Athletic aid amounts than academic aid.

quote:

Of course the really smart coaches try to get all the other aid first before using their budgets making that all part of the total package offer. But what I saw was those amounts are not substantial unless you have a definite NEED based income. Where as the coach can come in and make up a big difference to the top recruits with very little academic skills.

I can see if you apply for other aid that they consider the scholly as revenue but my son's school and the other schools that made offers did not know my income.
In all offers the academic money was 1.5 times or more greater than the ball money. My son's GPA was 3.8 and a 1150 sat. These are not brilliant but are certainly good marks. HIS SAT WAS hurt by his english mark but his math score was very high. We do not prepare for Sats like us kids do.
I know that the academics are tied in with the ball money and are probably a way to reduce the drain on the minimal ball money available.

Scholarhips are based upon coaches budget, he only has only so much in his athletic budget to give out so therefore he has to rely on other monies to help support the 11.7.

SDBB is correct, coach will try to get as much of his players on academic before he dips into his budget. The academic department will only allow so many to enter a program that do not fit the academic profile for that particular school.
As an instate student, if mine had gone to play here, very little was coming out of coach's baseball money, as son's tuition was paid for by the state. He got free meals. So the large scholarship he told us son getting was room and board only. And that counted very little towards his 11.7.
As a player who went out of state, he recieved all baseball money, not based on need. More of it based on not playing in state, because it would have cost us nothing for him to stay here.
If we stop to analize why each player gets what he did and why (baseball money vs. academic) we'd go crazy. Coaches do what they do for a reason.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. What matters is how much you write your check for each semester and that is your business.

For what it is worth, I am in the same corner as JBB on not sharing this information. I believe it can do nothing beyond creating problems between players, between coaches and players, and between parents.

When our son was in high school, we always noticed that players were receiving 'full rides'. Before we understood the 11.7, we were gullible enough to believe that. Once we were aware of the limitations on baseball scholarships, we had some good chuckles about the players who were recieving full ride (per their dads).

One such story that always gives me a chuckle ... a teammate of our son's received a 'full ride' to a prestigious WCC school (read: private and very expensive). We realized that it probably wasn't a real full ride but said nothing to the parents. His dad overheard me talking with my mom at a game one day, where I told her that our son's scholarship had been increased as some extra money opened up (with releases, draft signings, etc). The dad of the 'full ride' player leaned over and told me that the same thing had happened with his son. Hmmmmmm, now how does that happen when you are already at 100% ??? Still makes me chuckle ...

We were asked by many people and declined to share. It really is no one's business.

We did not tell scouts who wanted to know...one of them walked away and said - have a good college career...

When he got to campus, there was some sharing between players, kind of like, we're here, it really doesn't matter now...

But as a parent - it's hard to quell the curiousity to know if you got a relatively good amount. It is the only tangible measure of how a coach values your son at that point in time. Words are just that...

And remember after you get over the "amount" stress...there's always the "playing time" question. As a parent you just sit back on your hands with tape over your mouth and "it will be what it will be..."

quote:

And remember after you get over the "amount" stress...there's always the "playing time" question. As a parent you just sit back on your hands with tape over your mouth and "it will be what it will be..."

The other expression that I heard recently the other day was let the chips fall where they may. It indeed "will be what it will be." It is still fun to think about however

As has been pointed out, it really doesn't matter about the "baseball money" IMO, but the total package. This is one reason when I hear someone talk about a kid going to DIII "but he doesn't get any baseball money". Who cares? Is he getting money from some source/sources to attend that school that is allowing him to get an education. Some schools will be very creative in putting together a total package and very little may come out of a very small baseball budget. Other schools may be fully funded, but offer a package that contains very little.

It's one of the reasons, when a poster asks "what is a good scholarship amount". There are way too many variables to be able to answer that or to compare scholarships between players/schools.

I agree totally with JBB, as it is not anyone's bidness.

As a matter of note I just celebrated my 29th birthday again this year.

And there is no discussion about weight in our house We like Ben and Jerry's too much. Gave up worrying about that one after my 10th "29th Birthday".

Really it is a private matter. And it is no one's business.

Another note regarding one of the posts is that Good grades in combination with athletic ability does open more options to prospective student-athletes as coaches can use academic $$ that does not count against the 11.7. So good grades do help and provide more opportunities. Also shows a coach that they will not have to worry about eligibilty down the road.

We live in small town where everybody talks and asks pretty bold questions, so we just did not tell them. People are funny.

I think if you've gotten to the level that you're signing NLI's for Division One baseball programs, you're doing yourself a disservice by measuring yourself in dollars and cents. When you start talking about the money involved, you've dropped down a rung in my opinion.

Newcomer,
Great post!

If one begins to wonder whether any offer is a good one or not, you will begin to start knocking yourself out of the box, your options will become less and less.


JMO.

lhpmom, People in Missouri are unique. You could tell them about the scholarship and they would still ask you to SHOW ME!

We still chuckle when we remember how we kept hearing around town about our son's scholarship $'s .... as told by friends and neighbors!

I agree with the posters ... "Don't ask, Don't tell"!

You know, Fungo , funny thing is we moved here 6 years ago and I'm still waiting for the "Show Me" part.

I found a lot of stuff out about our family and my kid's baseball that I didn't even know about.

I thought of starting our own rumour: My son is playing Hockey in outer Bulgaria and will be touring the former Eastern Soviet Block countries.

It usually takes about 24 hours, sometimes 18 hours for a good juicy nonfactual rumour to spread throughout the town.

But I still never gave up the goods.

quote:

Originally posted by SDBB:
Again... its been my experience the finanical aid people will reduce other AID if you recieve substantial Athletic aid, and vice versa. This is a DEFINITE with NEED-BASED aid amounts, and unless there is a PUBLISHED standard (IE some states will pay a given amount for residents with certain GPA standards)

Of course the really smart coaches try to get all the other aid first before using their budgets making that all part of the total package offer. But what I saw was those amounts are not substantial unless you have a definite NEED based income. Where as the coach can come in and make up a big difference to the top recruits with very little academic skills.

Maybe I'm spoiled with where I live but I've seen more local kids get much more Athletic aid amounts than academic aid.

SDBB, I think it really depends on what school is being discussed. If you are talking about a highly desireable school with high academic standards I would agree with you. We saw that most larger schools and or the State University in our experience it was difficult to get academic money based on the criteria and the shear number of applicants to the school. Every top student seems to go there. At the same time there were a number of medium to smaller schools that had a fair amount of academic money available (3.5GPA 1250-1300 SAT criteria) that also offered athletic money....of course (financially) it would have been nice if my Son picked those schools...but thats for another day...