Offers that are too good?

unless the boy is a          pitcher throwing 95  that is a very unrealistic scholarship   offer

The coaches from the outstanding programs that you have mentioned do not offer large scholarships based on seeing them play once or twice.  The recommendations have to be pretty legit.

TR is correct, unless the recruit is a stud pitcher most offers (baseball money) are much smaller than you think they should be. 

 

If someone tells you their player is receiving that amount of scholarship, ask how much is academic and how much is athletic.

 

I can assure you that there are some players with multiple offers in that range. The example is a reality for some players & parents. Your comment is a very good example of why a player/parent might second guess the situation and simply believe he might be in the crosshairs from day one if he doesnt perform early.

I apologize as I am not really understanding the point you are trying to make.

My son received very good offers from ACC,SEC programs and we never questioned whether it might be too good or too much as most coaches watched him play most of the summer before senior year. I figured that they knew what they were looking for and liked what they saw.

FWIW, how do you know what the offers truly are?  Most people don't discuss offers (and asked not to by the coaches).

You can assure us (as you say) by how, the coaches told you?  Most parents as well as players have a tendency to leave out the true details.

I am in agreement here. I find it hard to believe- nearly impossible, in fact, that a coach would make an offer of this substantial amount after a small preview of play from a potential recruit.

 

75% scholarship is 8.775% of the entire allotment that fully funded programs are allowed. For context, that is the equivalent to over 3 roster spots on a full Division 1 roster.

 

While offers of this caliber certainly do exist, I do not believe anyone that states that an offer of this magnitude was made after one look. Coaches are like businessmen- businessmen would not invest nearly 9% of their annual budget into one asset without a thorough, in depth analysis of said asset.

 

On a side note, and I don't mean to come off harsh, but if a player feels as though an offer from a high level school is "too good", perhaps that player does not have the mental toughness to compete at that high of a level anyway. 

LOL...I think you are very naïve to think parents of players that spend summers together in the stands don't discuss schools, coaches and offers.

 

I think any intelligent parent quickly realizes college baseball is a business and you better be using the resources in the stands to build your frame of reference.

 

Scenario this weekend: Player A's son is visiting a school that Player B already visited last season and declined an offer from. Player A's mother asked Player B's mother normal questions pertaining to campus, facilities and the coaches and then casually ask why Player B declined the offer and what Player B's offer was. Player B's mother had little reason to not offer the requested offer info since her son was already committed elsewhere and her summer buddy wanted the information. 

 

Pretty standard scenario.

I actually said a few times but hey..who's reading. A few could be a game at the 16u PG WWBA, a game at the 17u WWBA and a game at the 18u WWBA. I think you could pretty quickly see the quality of the player at a "few" of those events.

 

I read what you said just fine. In my experience in player evaluation, you do not invest a substantial amount into a player based off of a "few" events unless the player is such an outlier as TRHit indicated, which is the most extreme and rare case. 

 

I don't think TPM or myself are naive to the process of player evaluation and recruiting, either. We've both been through it, from many different perspectives. Myself as a player- twice- as a coach for two years and now at the professional level. TPM as a parent of an ACC recruit and a top round draft pick. We know what we know based on our experience. To be quite frank, I don't care what parents in the stands say. The only thing that matters is what the eyes of the talent evaluator tell him/her and the offer that is put on the table. I've heard a lot of parents say a lot of different things.

You did say a few times.  A few to me is maybe 2 or 3. Is the player a stud pitcher or position player?  Did the mom tell the other mom it was athletic only? 
Trust me I am not naive and I dont think JH is either.

The player is a good 2-way player... solid pitcher and MIF'er. The money is all athletic. The 2 parents realize that athletic money is all that matters in this  conversation.  

 

 

Fair enough. Ill just chalk it up as the parents are full of crap and good players don't get those types of offers from those types of schools. That takes care of that conversation.

 

You're welcome for answering your question to the best of my capabilities.

I'm not questioning your information and actually appreciate it. I just don't want to get into what sounds like accusing parents or anyone for that matter of being an outright liar.

I'm confident you know your facts.

 

I wouldn't say anyone is an "outright liar". But parents are secondhand sources in this type of ordeal who often times let egos and rumors fly instead of truth and logic. It is very easy to exaggerate the truth- knowingly or not- when an audience may not be entirely informed or aware.

 

I don't think anyone illustrated in this situation is a bad person. I just wouldn't necessarily trust their word.

Also, anyone who is offered 75% to a school of that caliber is most likely one of, if not the most talented player on the field. If there is some doubt as to the validity of the offer then perhaps the doubt is warranted given the level of play being shown on the field. That may not always be the case, but I'd venture to say it is most of the time.

i have not read all of the post above word for word but many times the PCT people tell you is partially based on academic..it sounds good to say "my son got" 75pct when in fact 25pct athletic and 50 academic. dont get me wrong it is still 75pct but to the coach and ncaa its 25pct.

I would rather have academic money anyway as they cant take that away as easy.

 

 

i forgot to add..IF its not in writing it does not exist yet LOL

I won't question BK or the parents he's talking to. I will say I am aware of several specific cases where a player/parent has either outright lied about their situation or exaggerated it by including academic and athletic money together. It happens all the time.

>60% does sound pretty incredible, unless academic money is involved.  A couple of examples that I have are a CF that was drafted in the 4th round out of high school, got 60% from a low end PAC 12 School. He was not a good student, and coaches at that particular school told my son and I that athletes have a really hard time getting academic money there.  The other example I have is a two way player at a good D-1 School got 75%, but he is a 6'5" 220 lb. lefty pitcher. 

I am kind of confused as to exactly the question and what answer you were looking for mainly due to your replies.

What is an offer that is too good? Is the offer too good to be true or is the offer hard to believe because of who received it?

 

 

 

My only comment...I vividly remember the "I Heard Club". There are Chapters in every Conference, every State.. 

 

 

 

BK ... How much do you make per year? I figure if you're asking how much poster's kids are getting, why not?

What does it matter what another kid gets? How does it affect you?

Truth is, I know a young player (2015 class) that was offered 70% to a Big12 college. He verbally committed to that offer. The offer was made based on seeing the player one time.

 

I also know (or think) that this player is not talented enough to play at that school. I'm expecting a mind change of sorts sometime during the next year and a half. Verbals only  work when nether side changes their mind.  From the coaches side, he only needs to tell a player he will never see the field at their college. Most players will no longer want to go to that college.  Player looks for another college! Happens a lot. Sometimes it ends up being reported as the player is decommitting. The again, sometimes it is the player that really does change his mind. Nothing rare about a person changing their mind.

 

The above can happen no matter how big or small the offer is. So I wouldn't be concerned with the offer being too high.  In fact, it is always a good thing when the offer is too high unless one prefers a small offer for some reason. I can't think of a reason, though.

 

For the record, we know of a lot of players that are offered 70% or more. Nearly every top program has a few. You can't get the top guys with low ball offers unless there are certain grants available.

PGStaff...I appreciate the comment. There's no question in my mind that there are many kids/parents that take large offers knowing it's a long shot and knowing right away that Jr may or may not have the ability to stick at the program at the current offer percentage. I have no problem with the idea of taking a shot at a top-end program but I think there has to be some financial consideration taken if and when the player doesn't pan-out at one of the more costly private baseball schools.

 

 

 

 

I have no clue what you are even talking about! Where in this post do you see me asking a poster what his/her kid was offered?  

Offered 70% of what?  All baseball money?   Not sure I really understand why any coach would offer a player anything seeing him play just one time.  Doesnt say much for the coach or the state of college recruiting.  But then again that 70% only has to include 25% baseball money.

RJM makes a valid point, it is no ones business.  But since you asked my sons college scholarship was 90% all baseball.  He turned down the 100% which was not all baseball.  And we didnt worry about having to pay anymore than we had to as these were legit offers.  
Still not sure of the point you are trying to make but if it is not about your player its not really any of anyones business is it?  I mean why would you worey about someone elses sons offer and how they would pay for it if it didnt happen?

It's been a fun past 12 months watching several of son's team mates get <75% offers from top ten programs. One of which was in fact after been seen only once. I do understand the OP's concern, because as PG Staff said, I have already seen one of those verbal's de-committ under pressure from the college. I recommend you make sure it's a good fit based on a lot of research.

Wouldn't that be what one should do, or do these players jump at the offers just because of who gave rather than if the program was the right one for them.

I don't mean to get on anyone, but there is SO much that goes into the thought process.

 

I think that offers come for all reasons, not necessarily because the coach really wants him. It may be to keep him away from the competition, it may be to keep him out of the draft.  It may be because his folks were alumni (yeah there are all different reasons).  Either way, I think I would tell son to really think twice if a top ten program gave an offer after seeing him once.

 

JMO

TPM i have a question since you mentioned the 90%

 

When schools give one kid 90 another 75 another 40 to they add up all the pct left over from each one to give out whats left..IE above it would mean you have 95 pct of one left. 

 

I never see why if giving 90 you just dont make it 100 but i guess every percent saved can be re=used.

 

I also know some schools are allowed the 11.8 but also have a limit of dollars in scholarship the school itself will allow to be given out.  IE some school even if allowed 11.8 will only say they can afford to give out 9.5 due to budgets.

This post has obviously taken a turn for the worst and my attempt at being modest about my own sons situation has caused some misunderstanding. I don't care what others have received or question their legitimacy...I'm more concerned with sorting out my own son's situation By the early signing period. In fact...congrats!

 

My son has the same type of offers from ACC/SEC among a few other conferences with only 1 being under 70% (all athletic $) and we are simply attempting to determine if he is capable of truly playing to the expectation of 2 of the very good baseball schools (SEC type) that he has 70% from and liked the most on his visits. I was attempting to not state that info with the comments about parents exaggerating these things & being accused of lying at this point. My goodness...I feel like I need to post a PG profile or provide schools, coach's names & contact info to avoid being discredited at this point.

 

We would prefer he play at a good ACC school that has offered 100% (tuition only) and he had a solid chance of success & a great degree rather than the 2x great baseball programs (SEC type) that offered 70% and he has slight reservations about whether he can hang at with that level of expectation. Trying to be logical about it.

 

He is a 6'2, 190lb 2015 SS that last season was recruited solely as an Infielder with multiple good offers but grew and got stronger this winter & is also a side-arm pitcher topping at 92 (per PG) with some very good offers as a 2-way player now. SS or 2nd and closing.

 

Bottom line...we're u ever worried that he wasn't as good as the offer might indicate & that there's a chance it is reduced and you were left holding a large school bill & he ends up a message board cautionary tale? 

BK--

 

Going back to the original post, let me try to address what I think your original question is.

 

Are you asking how to evaluate a situation in which a player gets an unexpectedly large offer from a high profile school--an offer that seems to indicate this particular school values the player more highly than less prestigious schools who may have seen him play more often?

 

Generally in life, things that seem too good to be true either do not last or are not true in the first place.

 

Yes, there is a big risk that a big, early offer will get reduced or withdrawn before the signing date, and a similar risk it will be reduced or withdrawn after the player's freshman year. 

 

If I remember right from your other posts, your son is fairly young (2015-ish), so if the player in question is either your son or a teammate, this is both a large offer and an early offer. 

 

If I were the parent of this player, I would proceed slowly and with a lot of questions before letting my son take himself off the market by making a verbal commitment to accept an offer that seems too good to be true. I would not accept the offer until I had enough information that it seemed reasonable.

 

Best wishes,

 

BK, if you are getting similar offers from other top notch programs, I would say the offers are legit since you are getting validation from multiple sources. Take your time considering which school your son wants to go to and make a decision. If it doesn't work out at that school by early signing time, you should have other schools still wanting your son. If this offer were isolated, with no other good schools offering, I would give you a different opinion. Good luck to you and your son. Sounds like he has a solid career in front of him.

This was before they imposed the mandatory 25% with limits.

Many players before the rule, were lucky to get even 15%.  So there was more flexibility.

 

It was tough then and tougher now to get full baseball money, so I really don't believe it when someone says "75%" athletic or in amounts greater that lets say 60%. I think JH explained it well.

 

My son was given that option to lure him out of FL and to go to college. It made it affordable for us to travel to see him as well.  However, the coach that recruited him did so for a year, and also had scouts watch him on a regular basis. Son was a RHP throwing over 90 at the time. Pitching got most of the baseball money, even the top position guys didn't get as much, and I don't think they do now. People stretched the truth 10 years ago and they do now.  I know I may be an old

timer but some things never change. 

 

Keep in mind that before they changed to the minimum 25% academic money was still available.  In the state son went to, he told me that many on the team from that state were given state funded (lottery) money and the coach threw in the books. If you all think it was better than now you are wrong.  Most players got nothing while others got a lot. Any player living in states that have those programs and able to qualify for free tuition and given an offer is not, IMO,  getting full athletic dollars but blended. My son's option to go to UF included that option, bright futures from FL.

 

As far as giving 90 and not 100,   I think that the % left we covered were meals, and many will tell you that meals is the last thing that is paid for by any programs. I am not sure this is JMO. Most people tell me that that is the one thing they have to be responsible for regardless of JUCO, NAIA, D1,D2.

 

The 90 was a great oppportunity, keep in mind after the first year and players move out of the dorm expenses move up.

You make a great point about programs not being budgeted (fully funded). I don't believe that most programs have the luxury of giving large athletic dollars out these days.   This is why the blending and creative recruiting has become the norm.

Funny times we live in, most of us never really discussed what our sons got and when people asked we would say, "nice" or enough to leave. 

 

But since he did ask (has anyone's son received great offers from outstanding programs and felt they might not be deserving)  I decided that I would answer. 

 

What I really did question (at the time) was the guy who offered him 35% without ever seeing him play(SEC). He claimed he had promised a large chunk to an outfielder.

Needless to say that coach didn't do well and not sure he is coaching anywhere.

 

 

I admit the large offers made us think about what would happen if the scholarship was lost,  but we did our homework, you need to do the same, as well as let your son make the decision where he feels more comfortable.
100% of tuition is only a portion of the actual coast. Understand that rising costs occur year to year, and that there is much more on the bill than just tuition room and board. Make sure that you get an accounting of all costs if this is a concern to you. Also note that in the likelihood your sons scholarship gets pulled he will look for another place to go so worrying about costs shouldn't be a concern. If your son has those concerns he may not be good enough, remember he has to prove that he is, and sometimes that gets in the way of success. Consider all things not just the baseball program.

 

If it is a very early offer and you are worried, you need to do homework as to who is offering and their reputation.

 

No harm done but you should have stated it was your son in the first place. People have to remember it is frustrating on our end as well, I only answer with the info I have been given.

 

BK ... My question comes from your first sentence. Did your son get an offer that is too good to be true? If so, frame your question as such. If not, other people's finances are not your business. I have no Idewhat my son's teammates were offered. I didn't have the gall to ask.

Every situation is different.  If a player is on a highest level summer team, that usually produces several/many DI players, it's common to know what teammates are offered. Somehow that information often becomes available even without asking for it. Most everyone on the team has similar goals so this type information becomes very helpful.

 

If you are on a team that might have one DI type player, it is more difficult to make sense out of that one player's offer.  Also, it is less likely you will hear the details of that offer.

 

Then there is this to think about.  Sometimes the very best offers don't come from the very best baseball programs.  Sometimes the only way a mid major college can get a top player is by giving him a much better offer than the bigger colleges are offering.

 

bottom line... Information is very helpful, but each individual case is different. Sometimes the very best prospects in the country get less college interest than other players.  Recruiters can't afford to lose their recruiting class to the draft.  Scouts can't afford to lose early draft picks to college.  When a kid commits to schools like Stanford, Vanderbilt, Virginia, Notre Dame, etc., signability becomes a bigger concern for scouting departments.  Sometimes the best recruits are the ones the college coach thinks will become an early pick out of college, that scouts don't think is an early pick out of high school.

 

We see a lot of underclassmen being offered 60% or more.  Lets face it, why would a 2016 commit  without getting a good offer? I think it is important to understand that things change and often do change.  When that coach that recruited you tells you... After further evaluation, we don't think our program will give you an opportunity to play here. We think you should look for a better situation. What are you going to do? They are telling you they no longer want you.  Who wants to be where they're not wanted?

 

Also, recruiting sometimes goes beyond the recruiter, the player and the parents.  One school might have you committed early but through "other sources" you find out a top program would offer you more.  Now, you have changed your mind about things.  Do you honor your verbal or take he better opportunity (Decommit)?

 

Some will say your word is your word.  This is of course an ideal way to think.  On the other hand, what do you do when you are hired for one job and a much better one comes along?  Do you need to be unhappy and stay where you gave your verbal?

 

I think this all leads to what many are saying here.  THE RIGHT FIT! Your word should be very important.  So make sure if you decide to commit early it is exactly what you intend to do.  The right fit for you!  Then understand that things can change in that time between committing and actually signing the letter. And things can also change after signing. What makes you happy today, doesn't always mean it will make you happy two years from now.

I am still trying to figure if they add up all the leftover percentages at end of day to see what is left.  The one thing that is sort of a pain is when getting academic money you usually have to go thru the application process so the admin office can verify your academics and determine what is available

Is this an offer your son has? Or are you asking about another family that is perhaps bragging about theirs?

 

My questions would be - 75% of what?  75% of the total bill or 75% of tuition...75% of room/board?  My son has a X% of the TOTAL PRICE (room, board, books, tuition).  The coach explained that some schools don't always clarify what the % being offered - is of a specific item.  However know minimum is 25%. (Unless you are roster only.)

 

And I find some parents brag that their son got X% but don't really share the details that it is X% of the tuition...which may likely boil down to a 25% offer.