Official scoring question

Runs are charged to the pitcher who faced the batter when he reached base, whether by hit, error, fielder's choice, walk, or whatever. In the scenario you laid out, the first run is charged to the first pitcher, the second run to the second pitcher. The force play doesn't change this any.

Thanks midlo dad, that is what I thought and was wondering if possibly there was something with the force out but never had heard it before.

GONG!!!! Error on Midlo Dad!

When pitchers are changed during an inning, the relief pitcher shall not be charged with any run (earned or unearned) scored by a runner who was on base at the time he entered the game, nor for runs scored by any runner who reaches base on a fielder's choice which puts out a runner left on base by the preceding pitcher.
This rule is to charge each pitcher with the number of runners he put on base, rather than with the individual runners.
Fungo

Ya got me! At least according to the NCAA rules, which I've now found on line. Just goes to show, not everything you learn over the years is actually correct!

Interestingly, though the rule cited by Fungo is in the NCAA rule book, it is absent from the parallel rule in the NFHS rule book (Rule 9, Section 6, Article 5). It appears that in high school play, if a batter reaches on a fielder's choice, and later scores, his run would be charged to the reliever who faced him and not to the preceding pitcher who allowed the forced runner to reach.

In other words, the answer to the question depends on whether we're talking about a HS game or a college game. Not sure what the pro rule is. Also not sure why it's different for HS and college, except that two rules committees have apparently considered it and come down on different sides. Maybe someone out there can shed some more light on this.

Fungo, were you reading from the NCAA book, MLB rules, or what?

P.S. My copy of the NFHS rule book is from 2003 so there's at least some chance it's been changed since then.

Midlo Dad,
Are you saying that because the NFHS version doesn't specifically spell out the rule(s) for charging runs to a pitcher or relief pitcher that we have to assume they are automatically different than the official rules of baseball? I would think the opposite would be true. The information I have is from the official rules of baseball from the MLB website.

You have a PM.
Fungo

2006 NFHS Rule book.

Rule 9 section 6 article 5

A relief Pitcher shall not be charged with any earned run scored by a runner who was on base when such pitcher entered, nor with any hit or advance by a batter who had more balls than strikes when such pitcher entered.

piaa ump,
If I read Rule 9, section 6, article 5, it doesn't clarify NFSH’s position or override the official rule in this particular instance where the batter has becomes a base runner because the fielder allow him to become a base runner by electing to retire the preceding runner. Whereas, the official rules specifically states that the base runner that was allowed to become a base runner because a fielder chose to put out the preceding runner will NEVER be charged to the relief pitcher but will always be charged to the pitcher that allowed the preceding runner.

Fungo,
No it does not clear the issue. In this case, unless an NFHS interpretation is made, I would fall back on the rules of MLB, of which all sub professional baseball rules are based.

Umpires do not usually get involved in these type of scoring issues, so I will admit not being any help here...If pressed I would defer to the OBR.

I would like to hear more about the question of whether MLB rules apply in situations where NCAA or NFHS rules are less than clear, or where they leave gaps. Anyone?

My own experiences in coaching youth travel teams led me to discover that NFHS rules and MLB rules do differ. For those playing USSSA, USSSA Baseball adopts MLB, then sets out special rules and exceptions. But if you play AAU, they start from NFHS as their platform and then set out where they depart. (Of course there are ever more and more youth baseball associations out there, and I couldn't begin to cover them all.)

I first encountered this when a balk was called in an AAU tourney. The umpire called the balk because the pitcher, with his pivot foot on the rubber, turned his shoulders to first base to check the runner, before he had come set. My thinking at the time was that this was not a balk, that you could turn your shoulders up until you came set. As it turns out, that is the MLB rule (and thus the USSSA rule), but it is not the NFHS rule (followed in AAU play). I have no idea why NFHS adopted a more restrictive rule, and in fact as my son has moved on to high school I have seen many umps not calling this particular type of balk, but if you read the two balk rules in the two rule books the difference is apparent.

I haven't studied it enough to say where there might be other differences between MLB and NFHS on rules, but clearly the balk rule is a big one.

In contrast to AAU and USSSA, which plainly state that they are using others' rule books as their starting point, neither the NCAA nor the NFHS rule books make such a prefatory statement. Because their rule books then proceed to lay out chapter and verse on the very same subjects as are covered in the MLB rules, my inclination is to believe that the MLB rules simply don't apply to NCAA or HS play.

But, I am happy to say that I am learning more from this web site every day, so I would be happy to have someone educate me further on this.

"I first encountered this when a balk was called in an AAU tourney. The umpire called the balk because the pitcher, with his pivot foot on the rubber, turned his shoulders to first base to check the runner, before he had come set. My thinking at the time was that this was not a balk, that you could turn your shoulders up until you came set. As it turns out, that is the MLB rule (and thus the USSSA rule), but it is not the NFHS rule (followed in AAU play). I have no idea why NFHS adopted a more restrictive rule, and in fact as my son has moved on to high school I have seen many umps not calling this particular type of balk"

At the time you had this balk called on your team, It was a balk under NFHS rules...only last year did they change the balk rule to allow a turn of the shoulders to check a runner prior to coming set....

NFHS rules now allow the turn of shoulders prior to the set...

I will reccomend a reference book if you are curious about rules and their differences. It is the only book available that compares and contrasts NFHS, OBR and NCAA rules. Its called Baseball Rules Differences and it is updated yearly. It is written By Carl Childress, who is considered one of the foremost rules gurus for umpires.
I DONT LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT......

You wont find a lot of scoring info in the book however, since those are usually not things umpires focus on...