Ok Coaching Techniques?

Humiliation is never appropriate IMO. But that doesn't mean that it won't happen again...even with other teams.

However, if your son is handling it (sounds like he is), given he's a HS-age kid I would probably leave it alone. I guess I'd watch him and look for signs of losing interest, being worried or 'down' and if so, open a dialogue with your son.

Even if he opens up that he's bothered by it some time down the road...I'd still encourage him to take the first step towards resolving it by talking with the coach himself.

You have to explain HOW he was humiliated.

Was he forced to run poles in his jockstrap or just a good old fashion "get your head outta your ars and get in the game"!!

In the case of the latter, not uncommon at all. Some coaches ride players harder if they feel they are very talented and have great potential. Some coaches won't let a player coast on his athleticism, they push push push to get everything out of the player. Again it is hard to tell much from your post, so many situations, so many variables.


Hope that helps

It was just really riding him about a certain play and on one occasion he struck out twice in one game. The other players who make errors and strikouts (and there are plenty of others)don't get the same treatment. My husband feels like TripleDad in that these coaches see potential in my son so they challenge him to raise his game. On the up side, since this has happened, he's hitting much better and caught a really dificult out in right field that wasn't pretty, but showed more hustle than ever...and...he held onto the ball for the out. On the negative side, he's sort of looking forward to Legion being over and getting on with fall ball. Maybe he's just tired. I haven't talked to him about what I know because I am not sure if I should. I don't want to get involved unless it's unethical. You know? Maybe I'm just being a sensitive mom. My son hasn't brought any of this to us himself, so we're thinking we should just wait and watch like JustBaseball said.

Sounds like the coach's choice of "motivation" is doing the trick. I would think that...at his age, the LAST thing he wants is his parents' involvement...especially as a young player.

Yes, there are some coaches that use that kind of treatment to the players. They believe that is the right way to get respected for their players. They are wrong!. In reality they are hiding their incapacity. Good coaches are respected because knowledge, because admiration, because personality.

quote:

After the games in question, he was humiliated by these coaches in the post game outfielf 'huddle'. Is this normal??

No. The only time I have ever seen humiliation work is if the player is a dog, but if a kid is playing his hardest there is no need to humiliate him....build children up...dont tear them down.

Recab, I think you are mostly right. You win your players over with knowledge, preparedness, dedication, discipline, trust etc.. many things.
However, I have seen some great coaches that have their limits, if a player breaches it WATCH OUT!
But a coach that is using intimidation as a tool, in my experience, is lacking something.

Yeah...see, we don't want to get involved and cause problems for the boy for next year. The varsity coach doesn't do it....it's done when he's not there by the asst and the pitching coach. Both are on the younger side and are ex major league players who didn't make it big because of serious injuries. I think that during regular school ball, it would be different because the head coach would be at all the games. My son may not play varsity next year...or maybe he will...but we don't want to be interfering parents and ruin his shot at playing on the varsity level as a soph. I just don't know enough about what's acceptable coaching techniques and where the line gets crossed.

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
Sounds like the coach's choice of "motivation" is doing the trick. I would think that...at his age, the LAST thing he wants is his parents' involvement...especially as a young player.

I am with tripledad here. Sometimes you do have to light a fire under some kids but there is a way to do it that is right and wrong. Heaven knows I have done it wrong but I like to think I learn from my mistakes.

I still don't think we have enough information as to what the coach said and did to make an informed judgement. You have to remember that what one person / player / parent considers embarassing is perfectly fine for another person / player / parent. Maybe these kids who came to you took what happened out of context / blew it out of proportion or just want to create drama. Crazier things have happened before.

Criticism comes with athletics and life in general. Nobody likes or wants to be criticized - that is human nature - but it is part of the learning and growing process. Some coaches know how to do it and some don't but either way if you keep an open mind you can learn from it.

I don’t like it. But ask yourself ---- why do coaches humiliate players? I think they do it for a number of reasons. First I think humiliation is one of the few acts that that negates arrogance and I think arrogance is fairly common in today’s athletes. Coaches react to arrogance with humiliation.

Sports are full of emotions ----- every player has felt the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. The tears --the smiles --- the love and the hate all come with the territory. Some coaches, players, and fans have a difficult time controlling their emotions and their emotions tend to get out of sync with the real world. I think humiliating a player because of his failure is one of those times. As parents we would like to see the coach put his arm around our sons when they strike out of blow a save but again this is an emotional event sometimes it gets “emotionally ugly” ----- and the coach reacts emotionally. I think the best thing a parent can do is explain that the coach is trying to make you better. Some coaches do it in strange ways. Some compliment, some yell and scream, and some will pray with you. No matter what the coaching method, the goal is the same --- they want to make you better.

PS I have a picture of my son (I found among his things) wearing a coonskin cap along with his MILB uniform. I asked him if they gave him that because he was from Tennessee and he said ---- “NO, the coach made me wear it in front of everyone because I struck out 3 times in one game”.

DeeMax may have a point. My son has always been one of the better players among his age level, but is laid back...not real intense. These are varsity coaches who may just be trying to fire him up and get him to play harder so they can see what he's made of and what he can do on the next level. I wouldn't say he's a dog though, just low key. Once he didn't bust it out after a single to right field, because he knew he wouldn't get it and just played like the single that it was. I think the coaches want to see him bust it out no matter what.

As far as exactly what happened. I wasn't in there. I heard from a couple of the other kids that these two coaches 'really ride him hard' and 'single him out'. The coaches are with the players in the outfield out of earshot of any parents....so it's all second hand and subject to interpretation like Coach2709 said. The emotional side of baseball is so right, Fungo. Perhaps my using the word humiliation was too strong. The emotions are there, for sure. I never understood the emotional side of baseball until my son started playing as a young boy. It's a love....hate relationship.

I am getting a kick out of this thread. I know a player that was constanly in the doghouse (not mine) and turned out a winner.

Your son not mentioning it to you means that he has a tougher skin than the others, which needs to get tougher as he moves ahead. And coaches know who will go back whining to mom and dad and who will not.

As a mom whose son is older, I understand, but I don't see it as humiliation or disrespect, but as a mom I have become a bit thicker skinned myself at each level. All coaches have different ways to motivate and many will come down the hardest on the ones who have the most talent. I have found these coaches to have been the best and so has son.

This year my son had some rough starts, he was carrying one game into another the worst thing a pitcher can do. Instead of hearing again it will get better they came down on his butt and we were 100% behind his coaches when he told us. Whatever was said worked.

Don't worry about it, it doesn't seem to be bothering him, especially if his game has improved .

JMO.

by 27s: "singled out & riden hard"

jmo, but perhaps your definition (or that of his team-mates telling tales) of humiliation needs updated from LL.

he's becoming a young man and will have to handle a wide variety of personalities

i agree with bee,it doesn't sound like he was humiliated to me. they didn't tell everyone he wets the bed or anything like that.
it's no different than being a boss and figuring out what motivates the worker, some by a pat on the back some by a boot in the tail.
as he climbs the baseball ladder he will need a thicker skin, and it sounds like these two guys are fond of him and are helping him.
baseball isn't all about baseball all the time.

When I read a thread like this I go back to my experiences as a player, coach and a dad. The variables and situations are endless. I have had coaches that were harda**es that I loved. I've had nice coaches that I thought were idiots. And visa versa. It is impossible to give the right answer without intimate knowledge of the situation.

Seems like good advice in this thread so far though.

Consider this, the coach may be an idiot and too hard on the kid. Well, if he continues to play, there is a good chance it will happen again. It's part of sports. OR your kid may be lazy on the field, lack intensity, not paying attention, missing signals, not a team player etc.. He may deserve it. Some parents can easily recognize the situation and some parents CANNOT(parent goggles).
So who knows! Either way, It appears not a desperate situation.

Keep on being a Mama Bear, work on some extra skin layers and all is ok.

quote:

Once he didn't bust it out after a single to right field, because he knew he wouldn't get it and just played like the single that it was. I think the coaches want to see him bust it out no matter what.

Only once??

Play hard all the time, No excuses.

I'd yell at Alex Rodriguez, if he didn't run it out.

Baseball is a game of mistakes.
And you have to take advantage of those mistakes by the other team.
You won't be able to if your not giving 100% all the time.
I don't care if it's a routine play are not.
You Run.

What happened in the CWS this year.
The batter runner should of been on 2nd after a botched play in the OF. But he didn't run it out.
That was game changing.

27smom, Remember people are watching. All the time!!
EH

I appreciate all of your comments. They have helped me put the situation into perspective. And....yes EH...one time. He's never played with these coaches before and he's not the most confident outfielder. This is the first year ever that he's played outfield because he's smart. He's fast and has a great arm...he knew that the school has an abundance of infielders and not so many outfielders....and he can hit and hit for power...so he tried out for outfield (and he pitches). After playing freshman ball...then finding himself playing with the varsity guys is tough enough. Being less experienced than those guys shows. I guess I just don't see why they need to be so rough on him...but...if he wants to play on this level, he'll handle it. He hasn't said one word about it and looks forward to every day. He's like a puppy playing with the big dogs...and he's started the last 4 games and played the whole game. He went from being the #4 batter on Freshmen to #9 batter in Legion....but he plays. That's a good thing. I am grateful for all of your comments. I was looking for a forum to help me and I found it. My son, he is a tough kid...always has been and not arrogant...at all...he's a team player, a little quiet and never has a negative thing to say to or about anyone...he's a good kid. Probably why I was having so much trouble hearing that he was getting such a hard time. My husband has been trying to tell me that this type of motivation is a good thing and that it means that they see his potential. It is working. I guess I need to get tough and try to enjoy this time in his life...not worry so much. Thanks again everyone.

A little misunderstanding. He didn't hit the ball...he was playing in the outfield and the batter hit a single to right. My son didn't bust it out to try and get the ball because he knew it was a hit. Still....he should have busted it out...no excuses.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:

quote:

Once he didn't bust it out after a single to right field, because he knew he wouldn't get it and just played like the single that it was. I think the coaches want to see him bust it out no matter what.

Only once??

Play hard all the time, No excuses.

I'd yell at Alex Rodriguez, if he didn't run it out.

Baseball is a game of mistakes.
And you have to take advantage of those mistakes by the other team.
You won't be able to if your not giving 100% all the time.
I don't care if it's a routine play are not.
You Run.

What happened in the CWS this year.
The batter runner should of been on 2nd after a botched play in the OF. But he didn't run it out.
That was game changing.

27smom, Remember people are watching. All the time!!
EH

27smom, You have found the right spot on the web.
And welcome to the HSBBW.

I know what your going thru.
But it's part of the whole experience.
Your son will have many coaches, Not all the same.
But your Husband's right.
They want the most out of there players.
And like I said before, You never know who's watching.

27sMom,

Welcome to the HS Baseball Web! My son is a rising college senior now, but I remember back to when he was a freshman in HS. He was the only freshman to make the varsity in several years. I found out only after the season was over that he had been given a pretty rough time ... by the other players. They picked out some unpleasant chores that were to be done by "the freshmen on the team" ... meaning him, since he was the only one. Carrying LOTS of equipment, cleaning up after the whole team, etc. And for a while they just weren't very welcoming to him because each game he "stole" one of their friend's spots. He was a utility player who could hit pretty well (he was also pitching for JV when there was no varsity game). But on varsity, the coach would put him in a starting spot in place of whichever player was not doing well at the plate or on the field. So every game, my son was "stealing" someone's starting spot. But he never said a word to us about any unpleasantness during the season, and just quietly did his job (or jobs, including carrying all the equipment, etc. LOL). By the end of the season he was good friends with most of the other players.

I like the fact that your son has not complained to his parents about the coaches' attitude. But at the same time I agree with some of the advice above about being available to talk with your son about it and perhaps sharing some of the positives about coaches hoping to help him improve, and learning how to deal with supervisors who are not ideal, etc.

Good luck to your son!

Julie

How do you define humiliation ????

Thanks Julie....your story sounds similar. I guess there's a certain amount of initiation that goes on. My son was asked to play on this Legion team and now he's being treated like an outsider. Not by all, though. The head coach has been great...the stuff that goes on is when he's not there. It's summer...so he's not present at every game. Some of the players have been rough on him...it's true. He's definitely cleaned up more than his share of trash from the dugout, but others clean up and rake the field too. After one game, I watched as my son struggled carrying his 2 bags (his regular bag and his catcher's stuff...he's also the back up catcher), plus a cooler and a bucket of balls, while varsity guys strolled out with just their own stuff. He struggled, dropped stuff, struggled some more...and no one offered him a hand. I saw, but couldn't embarass him by going to help....so I just watched him slowly make his way to the car. He never complains. I know his personality...and when it's his turn to play with the young players...he won't do that. We've had lots of conversations about expecting all kinds of different coaching and player personalities over the years. We just tell him to be true to himself and play his game to the best of his ability all the time. His skin is tougher than mine. Hopefully, in the end, he'll earn some respect for his toughness. The parents of the varsity players are another story. Oh....the back biting that goes on! That's another topic for another day!

.

Same EXACT same thing happened to one of mine...

Told him...

"What is being done is wrong IMO...and I can get involed, I can solve this, if you really want me to...

...but you're going to see this same guy (type of authority figure) in front of you over and over for the rest of your life...(teacher, coaches, boss...)...

...if you can figure out how to handle the situaion you'll be that much further ahead of the game the next time you're faced with it...

...and I guarantee you will be faced with it again.

Now YOU decide what you want to do."

44
.

I have enjoyed everyone's response in this thread

27sMom - I think your husband and your son have the right answers. I think you can turn every situation into a positive or negative depending on your reaction.

My son doesn't need coaches in his face because no one could be harder on someone than himself. When he found one getting on him for seeimingly trivial stuff and trying to belittle him, I said maybe that coach was just trying to toughen him up a bit. Just maybe the coach knew that some of the heckling he would endure would be worse than what the coach could dish out. I knew my son did not need motivated that way but I think he grew from the experience and has a great relationship with that coach. If some coach were too laid back in contrast, I would try and help him see the benefits of playing for someone like that i.e., use the coach's laid back approach to relax in the batters box etc.

Some coaches see abilities in our sons that we parents cannot see. If they feel they are not getting those things from the players, sometimes they ride them a bit. I think your son will be fine regardless if these are ideal coaches or not.

I am (was - hard to speak in past tense for me)a screamer and yeller. However, I hope that I've never humiliated a player. Certainly, I would hope that I've never gotten after a player without also coaching that player. I always percieved that one of my strengths was that while I might get after a player, I always took the time to talk to that player about the incident/event.

From a coaching standpoint, and this might not sound fair, some kids push themselves to the limit, they don't need anyone to say anything to them because they give all that they can. Some think that they are giving all but are blessed with more and so, sometimes you have to find that button to push to let them realize how good that they can be. Some know that they have more and simply don't care to push themselves. With them, only a teammate's improvement or the bench motivate them. Some have reached their, "level of competence" and will not improve no matter what you, as a coach, do. The trick then is to figure out the level each player is playing at.

And when all was said and done you would always slide this to him...

I like this discussion too. I agree, some kids push themselves to the max, so they don't have to be pushed, others have to be pushed to untap their potential.
Sometimes, the ones who have found early success tend not to work as hard at their game as others who need to improve their skills. If the coach is a bit "soft" on that player, he too will become "soft" on himself. As CoachB has said, the trick is to figure out the level each player is playing at and most do when they really get to know that player. You will see this alot in the college situation, HS studs who have been successful think that they will have the same success at the next level. It's often a jolt and sometimes when fully realized they will become driven maniacs to prove that they have what it takes.

As far as one player "stealing" another players position, my son's wise coach told me something once. A good coach never takes the opportunity away, the player takes it away himself. This should be communicated clearly to the team, because players thinking that others are "stealing" their positions have essentially not fulfilled their responsibility or possible potential. This philososphy helps to bring players together, rather than seperate them. That philosophy feeds off each player, now each working their hardest to not have to lose their position,which in the end, makes for a better team. Creating competition among players is healthy, if done correctly.

quote:

I am (was - hard to speak in past tense for me)a screamer and yeller. However, I hope that I've never humiliated a player.

CoachB25, one of the best coaches my sons ever had in their youth (through HS levels) was a yeller. The players loved him. Yes, he would yell at a player ... I saw him pull kids off the basketball court after a mistake (not physically of course, but sending in a replacement) then could see him talking very animatedly to the player - reminding him what they worked on in practice, running through it verbally, then sending him back out on the court to do it right! Some of the parents didn't understand that a coach could talk tough to a player and the players would love him, but they did.

A coach can be tough in so many good ways, without humiliating a player or degrading him. Basically he was saying to the players "we worked on this and I know you can do better...and here is how to do it". This coach also had a habit every once in a while, of peeling off his sports coat and throwing it in a corner near the bench during a heated moment. The coach actually made fun of himself about that a time or two during awards banquets, etc. Players respected him, other coaches respected him, and the players learned a lot and became better players. (He also coached baseball but I really remember those basketball games, LOL!)

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:

CoachB25, one of the best coaches my sons ever had in their youth (through HS levels) was a yeller.

How is the Ol' Coach doing these days?

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:

quote:

I am (was - hard to speak in past tense for me)a screamer and yeller. However, I hope that I've never humiliated a player.

CoachB25, one of the best coaches my sons ever had in their youth (through HS levels) was a yeller. The players loved him. Yes, he would yell at a player ... I saw him pull kids off the basketball court after a mistake (not physically of course, but sending in a replacement) then could see him talking very animatedly to the player - reminding him what they worked on in practice, running through it verbally, then sending him back out on the court to do it right! Some of the parents didn't understand that a coach could talk tough to a player and the players would love him, but they did.

A coach can be tough in so many good ways, without humiliating a player or degrading him. Basically he was saying to the players "we worked on this and I know you can do better...and here is how to do it". This coach also had a habit every once in a while, of peeling off his sports coat and throwing it in a corner near the bench during a heated moment. The coach actually made fun of himself about that a time or two during awards banquets, etc. Players respected him, other coaches respected him, and the players learned a lot and became better players. (He also coached baseball but I really remember those basketball games, LOL!)

The thing about yelling (CoachB25 please don't take this towards yourself) but if you win then most people will see it as motivating and effective.

If you lose then most people will see you as a loudmouth idiot who doesn't know how to coach.

Parents and fans are a pretty fickle bunch. Bobby Knight is either a genius or an idiot based on who you ask. He has won and loss so you get both views.

Myself I am a yeller as well. I yell for mess ups but I also yell in a positive way on good plays. I am willing to bet CoachB25 you are the same way. To me that is just being vocal, enthusiastic and emotional. Good happens you yell good stuff. Bad happens you yell bad stuff. The problem is that most people will only hear the bad stuff and you get a reputation - undeservedly - as a guy who is always yelling at bad stuff.

When something good happens - guy hits a double to score a run, makes a diving catch - everyone's attention is focused on the player (as should be) so they don't hear the coach yell the compliments but when a player messes up everyone's attention then focuses to the coach. They want to see how he handles it or watch him "put on a show".

There have been some really great posts in this thread. I personally have no problem with Coaches who yell and my son seems to like Coaches who are hard-nosed and take the game very seriously. If they happen to express their passion by yelling - so be it. As was said, you can make your point by yelling and still not humiliate a kid.

There are many styles that are effective. I think some coaches are very hard to please and that can be a good thing. Many players will do whatever they can to please a coach like that. When a hard-to-please coach gives a compliment, it usually means a lot to a player.

For Me.. Physical mistake, I build the kid up, everything is OK.
Fundemental mistake, I tell them immediatly what they did, I never wait
Mental mistake by a kid, the whole team hears about. Mental mistake is a team mistake.
Lack of hustle or poor sportsmanship is the only time I single a kid out.

Don't do as much yelling as I used to. Rarely in a game. But practice is another story

Great posts folks. 2709; your last paragraph is golden.
TripleD and Cleveland: those are solid points.

I have found that you need different strokes for differnet players---some react when you get on them and others don't--others need to be stroked

But you can get on a kid without humiliating him---if I want to dress a kid down we do it in private behind closed doors

The great thing about a yeller is you know exactly whats on his mind.

Football coaches are much worse.

Thanks Trojan Skipper