As the parent of a white kid at a historically black college, and a member of the media, this has been an interesting yet unfortunate thread. I submit that these are facts, and not likely to change any time soon:
1 -- There is a double-standard in the use of certain language. It might be lingo in the black community, but not all segments of black society. The word's history makes it impossible to use anywhere else. We can discuss ad nauseum all the racial or ethnic slurs you want, some perceivably more offensive to folks than others, but this particular word's history makes it wrong to use in any context in a public, or potentially public, forum.
2 -- Slurs of any kind are gotcha news stories. Any reporter who hears one and doesn't report it isn't doing his or her job. It didn't necessarily used to be that way (it wasn't when I started in the business). But look at the reaction on these boards. You hate us for doing the story, but you'd hate us if we didn't and you somehow found out about it later. We do it because we know you (the general public) want and expect it. Shoot the messenger if you'd like, but ultimately you shoot yourself in the foot.
3 -- There but for the Grace of God go I. Many if not most of us have used this word, or ones like it, at some point during our lives. We say something in anger, or frustration, or tryng to make a joke, and most of the time we know there was no real malice intended. Yet also we know that had the coach used the word in the dugout or clubhouse to his team, even in private, many lawyers would tell you the word could be grounds for harrassment.
How do we know which is which? We don't. And that is why someone who reportedly is an otherwise good man is out of a job today.
Don't like it? Blame the one you see in the mirror today.
quote:I knew this thread would be telling.
Dad04,
This post was edited.... was it because you were jumping to conclusions about some posters on this thread and decided maybe you said the wrong thing?
There is no way to rationalize any argument that excuses the comments made by the coach - none. Period.
If any of you made that comment about a cooworker (for example) wouldn't you expect to be out of a job?
How about your kid - being interviewed by a scout considering drafting him - making this kind of comment? Don't you think there might be a question about his makeup?
"Yes, sir. I'd love to play for the Nationals. Frank Robinson is a great manager and there isn't an ounce of N***** in him."
Change your hearts and minds, people.
If any of you made that comment about a cooworker (for example) wouldn't you expect to be out of a job?
How about your kid - being interviewed by a scout considering drafting him - making this kind of comment? Don't you think there might be a question about his makeup?
"Yes, sir. I'd love to play for the Nationals. Frank Robinson is a great manager and there isn't an ounce of N***** in him."
Change your hearts and minds, people.
Old Va. Man hits it pretty well, but it is disconcerting when I've heard the "n" word tossed around by black and white players, joking around with each other, with no offense intended or taken, no malice in sight, yet overhearing the conversation made me very very uneasy? If a reporter is present, is this ESPN material? Should all of these players, black and white, be booted?
Is the unease my fault or the players' fault? Do they need to be taught to be "more sensitive", or are they better off experiencing free and easy communication, without the hangups of PC word analysis.
I love the country song about when a screw was a screw, a hoe was a hoe, etc. etc. Times do change, whether we like it or not.
Is the unease my fault or the players' fault? Do they need to be taught to be "more sensitive", or are they better off experiencing free and easy communication, without the hangups of PC word analysis.
I love the country song about when a screw was a screw, a hoe was a hoe, etc. etc. Times do change, whether we like it or not.
I neither saw nor read the article in question...but I would like to offer an opinion...why was it necessary to call into question, while describing the ability of this youngman, the color of his skin? Is that relevant to his ability? How about if the coach had referenced the kid as a blue eyed, white, Northener...is that necessary in detailing his attributes as a ball player? Does it speak volumes about what the coach when he utilizes these words?
I have found that there are many words, that when used, provide immediate mental images...what comes to mind when the following words are used to descibe a person:
a spick....Spanish
a greaseball....Italian
a mick.....Irish
a pollock...Polish
on and on and these are slurs that are used to describe ethnic background and none of them is positive...they carry the connotation that one is less than worthwhile and need to be deleted from our vocabulary...yet...when used by members of the same ethnic background they seem to be acceptable as when the "N" word is used black on black...can and do we who are not black understand it..no..but what we do know is that it is not acceptable for others to use the word(which I, BTW, find horribly offensive)....by holding the coach responsible for what he utters the University is indicating that they have a no tolerance policy for any type of differentiation amongst students...Remember according to our Constitution...we are all created equal...lets drop the words that indicate otherwise...IMHO
I have found that there are many words, that when used, provide immediate mental images...what comes to mind when the following words are used to descibe a person:
a spick....Spanish
a greaseball....Italian
a mick.....Irish
a pollock...Polish
on and on and these are slurs that are used to describe ethnic background and none of them is positive...they carry the connotation that one is less than worthwhile and need to be deleted from our vocabulary...yet...when used by members of the same ethnic background they seem to be acceptable as when the "N" word is used black on black...can and do we who are not black understand it..no..but what we do know is that it is not acceptable for others to use the word(which I, BTW, find horribly offensive)....by holding the coach responsible for what he utters the University is indicating that they have a no tolerance policy for any type of differentiation amongst students...Remember according to our Constitution...we are all created equal...lets drop the words that indicate otherwise...IMHO
hokieone makes a very good point.
If any of you have really listened to the conversations of the younger generation, listened to the lyrics of their music or the routines of their comedians the "n" word has a whole new meaning to this generation.
Would I use the term myself, by no means. Do I feel uncomfortable around others who do, by all means - and that is true no matter what color their skin. But that is because I grew up with the word having a much different meaning.
We have to keep in mind that the English languard is a living and evolving language. Many of us remember when *** meant light hearted and happy.
Before I fire a man I would have to know a lot more about the specifics. Could it be that he hears that word used by his players on a daily basis. Could it be that he understands the evolved meaning of the word.
Yes, it was a stupid thing to say - because the number of people still offended by that term (both African American and White) is large. But keep things in context before you demand he be fired.
If any of you have really listened to the conversations of the younger generation, listened to the lyrics of their music or the routines of their comedians the "n" word has a whole new meaning to this generation.
Would I use the term myself, by no means. Do I feel uncomfortable around others who do, by all means - and that is true no matter what color their skin. But that is because I grew up with the word having a much different meaning.
We have to keep in mind that the English languard is a living and evolving language. Many of us remember when *** meant light hearted and happy.
Before I fire a man I would have to know a lot more about the specifics. Could it be that he hears that word used by his players on a daily basis. Could it be that he understands the evolved meaning of the word.
Yes, it was a stupid thing to say - because the number of people still offended by that term (both African American and White) is large. But keep things in context before you demand he be fired.
Let us not miss the point here.
Was there malice or bad intent on the part of the coach? No. I don't think so. He was trying to compliment the kid
Did he deserve to get fired? Yes.
Why? Because any coach at a major University that uses that kind of language in front of a reporter not once, but twice..... Well, he is too stupid to coach my kid. What did he think the consequences were going to be? Geeeesh
Was there malice or bad intent on the part of the coach? No. I don't think so. He was trying to compliment the kid
Did he deserve to get fired? Yes.
Why? Because any coach at a major University that uses that kind of language in front of a reporter not once, but twice..... Well, he is too stupid to coach my kid. What did he think the consequences were going to be? Geeeesh
MM
I edited my post because it sounded better this way. I wrote the post after 4 or 5 apologists rationalizing for Cochell posted. That tone did not change.
Aparent
The number offended (both African American and White) should be getting larger.
Scooter, I'm not sure what hypothetical point you are trying to make. I count D1 minority head coaches on 2 fingers in the state of Florida, out of a dozen coaches. I'd be surprised if more than a dozen minorities were head coaches nationwide out of 250+ D1 schools. Minority coaches are usually on shorter leashes, not longer ones.
If there are more than 5 black D1 head coaches outside the MEAC, I'll eat a baseball. I'll start...
1. Tony Gwynn
quote:quote:
I knew this thread would be telling.
Dad04,
This post was edited.... was it because you were jumping to conclusions about some posters on this thread and decided maybe you said the wrong thing?
I edited my post because it sounded better this way. I wrote the post after 4 or 5 apologists rationalizing for Cochell posted. That tone did not change.
Aparent
quote:Yes, it was a stupid thing to say - because the number of people still offended by that term (both African American and White) is large.
The number offended (both African American and White) should be getting larger.
quote:"Do you think a minority coach would have been asked to resign if he would have said a white player was a good kid and not a honky or cracker? Do you think there would have been an uproar about him using those racial slurs directed towards a white player?"
Scooter P
Scooter, I'm not sure what hypothetical point you are trying to make. I count D1 minority head coaches on 2 fingers in the state of Florida, out of a dozen coaches. I'd be surprised if more than a dozen minorities were head coaches nationwide out of 250+ D1 schools. Minority coaches are usually on shorter leashes, not longer ones.
If there are more than 5 black D1 head coaches outside the MEAC, I'll eat a baseball. I'll start...
1. Tony Gwynn
I think three pages of debate on this unfortunate incident is enough, everyone is starting to repeat what someone else has said before.
I am closing this topic.
CV
I am closing this topic.
CV