Opinions on age, growth, velocity, etc.

He's got good size, sounds like he was successful in the limited amount of innings..was this varsity of JV? I'd suggest you and he work together and develop a plan if this is what he wants to do. You live in O-ville..it should be very easy to get him on a gun..heck almost anywhere you go in this state in summer ball, "somebodies" got a gun. Does his school require him to play summerball with them or does he have the option to play for some of the outstanding travel squads in the area? My son works and works out here in the Jacksonville area, his boss is prepping for one last Major League shot (He was on the Jays Triple A team a couple of years back). So if you make it up this way pm me and I can get you gunned there (It's just off of the University of North Floridas campus). Maybe even get his mechs looked at and possibly some suggestions as to conditioning pathway.
Unfortunately you've provided scant info and no vid so it's kind of hard to say much more than these generalities.

He is at where my son was at as a freshman, I don't have the book here but they were approximately the numbers below. These are Stalker readings not HSBBW pitching theorem number 1 "daddy-7" guesses. If you watch lots of games from behind the plate you can usually pick up about 3MPH differences but as JD said you need a gun to really know or at least get your eye calibrated.

Freshmen (So Cal)
Typical Ave: 70 (many sub 70)
Primary league starters: 73-75
Elite: 78+ (saw one or two in the season)

Most HS underclass Varsity pitchers are around 80…many sub, some older kids get up to 85. The elite group of kids who go on to pitch in college are 85+, and of course the handful of 90+. I have personally seen two this year and heard of one other in our pitching rich So. Cal County.

You will see kids throwing 80 as freshmen and think wow, and they end up at 83 as Sr's. My son was in the 73-75 group as a freshmen, hit 81 as a soph, touched 86 as a Jr this year and who knows after this. There are way too many stories to know where your son will end up. A friend of my son’s older brother was a typical upper level kid throwing 85-86 as a HS Sr, signed with a very good NAIA school and now as a college Jr is throwing 91-93 and should be picked up in the draft mid round this year.

Hard work and genetics will determine where he ends up. Get good pitching instructions, do LOTs of long toss, hit the weight room and work core and legs, stretch a lot, running should be sprints. You never know what his genetic max will be and most kids never get close to it because they don’t put in the very hard work required.

Thanks very much for the replies. he was JV this year, only 2 other pitchers got more innings and they were only 5 and 3 innings more for those two players.

From what I am reading he needs to do more leg and core work. He has a good pitching coach that he has worked with the past 2 years and this summer he is playing for the underclass school team (Current freshmen and rising 8th graders) and also for a 16U travel club that was put together by Gil Morales (jdfromfla you might have heard of him-he was the eagles view coach in Jacksonville for a few years)

He does work every day on something. Alternates between footwork, working on his stride, long toss, hitting, etc. Any specific core or leg exercises you would recommend? How many reps per session?

I know Gil from his participation with Dusty and Bob at UNF and Rick Wilkins(I'm sure he wouldn't remember me but I've been at about 20 clinics he either helped at or was an observer). You cannot go wrong..the guy develops outstanding talent..not to mention that Eagles View was State Champs I believe during his time there, if not were always in the mix for state, his travel teams play against "The Yard" Jarrod Paynes teams (The guy my son is working for and with)...So who knows we may be peeering over a dugout at each other soon stay in touch it would be a hoot to meet up and compare notes.

My guess is, he needs better technique, not core work. I know several 15 yo that are not as big, throwing faster. Find another pitching coach - one that uses a gun to measure improvement.

Sultan:

I have seen size means nothing for younger kids as far as velocity goes. Many times taller kids take longer to develop since it takes time to develop the muscle mass to control those long limbs. I guarantee he needs core work, as it is my experience that kids don't do it, or have poor instruction.

I agree with the coaching and the gun. If you want to improve something - measure it.

DPE:

As far as programs, go to the strength and conditioning forum and do some searches on different key words like, pitchers, core, legs, etc and you will find some good examples to get him started. As they say, "make the squat rack your friend" Compound, Olympic lifts are key.

Stress the importance of throwing a lot. I have found that to be a big factor in both velocity and arm health. Every kid develops slightly different, that much is a fact. Some may gain big velocity jumps in a relative small amount of time while others it is slower or more linear. My own son had his biggest "jump" between his 10 and 11 year (now 14), that was about 8 mph, since then it has been a steady 5mph per year until now. His biggest growth spurt actually came between his 11 and 12 year while his biggest muscle spurt has been this last year- between 13 and 14. I am not sure how it all adds up but so far for my son his velocity jumps haven't coincided with either growth or muscle spurts.

I did notice a little phenomenon some years ago with smaller kids throwing those slightly undersized foam pitching machine balls. The kids who could throw them fast with smooth yet fast arm motions have gone on to now be the fastest throwers in their respective leagues while at the time when they were younger were not the fastest throwers around. This tells me that mechanics and genetics (fast twitch muscles) plays a much larger role in velocity than muscle or height in the long run.

to add...

It is possible to develop fast twitch muscles, it may just be harder for some rather than others which comes easier. So, no one is really limited, some just have to work a lot harder for the same results.

quote:

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
to add...

It is possible to develop fast twitch muscles, it may just be harder for some rather than others which comes easier. So, no one is really limited, some just have to work a lot harder for the same results.

Not sure I agree with that GBM. Some people will never be able to reach 90 no matter how hard they work. I believe there is a genetic factor in there as well.

Same can be said for NFL linemen. No matter how hard some people work, they will never get to be 6'5", 325 lbs and run a 4.7 40. Just not gonna happen. There are genetic factors in place in all of this.

That's why only a select few make it all the way to MLB and even a way smaller select few make it to the HOF.

quote:

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
to add...

It is possible to develop fast twitch muscles, it may just be harder for some rather than others which comes easier. So, no one is really limited, some just have to work a lot harder for the same results.

You can not develop fast twitch muscles, you can only train your slow twitch muscles to twitch a little faster

Pioneer3,

quote:

“You can not develop fast twitch muscles”

Nonsense! Fast (type2) twitch recruitment is developed by the underload principle with a ballisticly performed interval training program and is best developed “sport specifically” with long toss or the more effective maximal effort bull pen.

quote:

“you can only train your slow twitch muscles to twitch a little faster”

Nonsense, oxidative (type 1) muscles are developed by the overload principle and best performed “sport specifically” by overloading the mechanical movements that a pitcher performs unless his mechanics are injurious then he has to use the general method of training with no improvement in proprioceptive awareness from exercises like power lifting and Olympic lifts that are pretty much a waste of time and effort.

DPE,

Sounds like your son is at a good point in his development. My son also just turned 15 in March. He too is 6' 3" and is 170lbs. He is a LHP. He was gunned during a JV game a couple of weeks ago and topped out at 81. He played football in the fall and the lifting he did over the summer (a ton of core work and leg work) really seems to have helped his velocity. I'd guess (this was the first time he had been gunned and that I saw the readings myself) that for his middle school last year (8th grade)he was low 70's. He also worked with a pitching coach for the first time over the winter which really cleaned up his mechanics which I'm sure also helped out his velocity.

So basically I'd say that your son certainly has potential and that core and leg workouts could really pay off for him next year along with his workouts with his pitching instructor. He certainly has the "size" to be a good pitcher and that can't be taught.

Not an expert on the field, but i think that core training and leg work can benefit anyone. My son was involved in some extra weighttraining with a jr hockey trainer - clean, snatch and jerk routines and it paid off. I think you can train and build fast twitch muscles. the key is to get good advice and monitor technique. He had some arm issues in his upper forearm as a result of over training with curl related lifting, possibly from throwing too soon after lifting, but i think it was the area he was working on - it was a **** to heal up, recurred very time he thought he was over the hurdle.

The $100 atheletic massage and diagnosis helped a lot initally, but no way I could afford under the circumsatnces. It pays to spend a bit of money and get expert advice in the beginning.

liner

Hockey is not the same muscle group----when you train is should be sport specific

True TR, however cleans, snatches and jerk's are all considered primary and necessary lifts for ball players. Some recommend staying away from the overhead lifts for pitchers. I think they are beneficial in the off season for building up the shoulder area.

for sure, all primary exercises and some targeted were added from his contacts with other trainers who specialized in baseball. Wobble ball aquats, ladder drills, lunges with weighted vests etc, leg presses and some light weight work for the rotator.

main thing is to work out with a program and purpose with some form of qualified instruction. Too many kids just start lifting without direction. Core strength is crucial imo.

What most people believe is that you can't increase the percentage of fast twitch fibers. You can develop the fast twitch fibers that you do have using exercises designed to recruit fast twitch fibers. Yardbird is probably pretty much correct on this one.

I like some of the skating exercises for improving lateral movement which is good for fielders and for pitchers.