Ordinary Effort

That would be a hit in my book.  You can't assume the out is made...If the fielder fielded in cleanly how can that be an error on him?   If F3 makes a great effort for it but can't get back to the bag how can that be an error on him?

That's a hit.

And F1's dad should find better things to do than worrying about scoring decisions.

JCG posted:

What if ordinary effort is just knowing when to stay home?  We've had a couple plays this year like this one that result in a controversial hit/error call.

Well struck ground ball in 3-4 hole and both F3 and F4 go after it.  F4 does get to it, but by the time he does, F3 is too far off the bag for a throw, and F1 has failed to cover in time. Arguably F3 should know it's F4's ball all the way, esp. as he knows F4 has very good range. Arguably F1 should break toward first on any ball hit to the right side. But anyway, the batter is on first and I score a hit.  F1's dad immediately texts me to say no, that's E3.  What?  Yeah, F3 should not be so aggressive on balls like that for the reasons stated but if that's an E IMHO it should be on F1.

Right?

Right.  That's a hit and if anyone should get the bulk of the mental E blame, it is F1.  We want our F3's to have the mentality to attack everything and trust F1.  We want our P's to ALWAYS cover 1 on balls to right side.  P dad texts that to you?   Don't get me started.

That is BS.  F1, his son, should have covered.  

As a pitcher's dad, I hate these, but it's a hit.  Infield single.  No error, because there was no misplay on the ball.  Mental misplay's are not eligible to be errors.  Someone can come here and quote the rule for it, but it's there somewhere.  And if you want to place responsibility, it is on the pitcher...  As a pitcher, I would NEVER want the 1st baseman to not go after a ball to his right.  There are balls the 1st baseman could get to the the 2nd baseman could never get to.  If he doesn't do that, everyone would be complaining that he's lazy and won't even make a play.  All fielders in the vicinity should attempt to make a play on a batted ball, anything hit to the right side, pitcher should always be making a move to cover 1st.  

If it was my son pitching and this happened, I would politely say "you should have been there to cover", his response would have been "I know, it was my bad".

Sorry but this is covered in the OBR in 10.13 comment 3:  Mental mistakes or misjudgments are not to be scored as errors unless specifically covered in the rules.

An error in 10.13 is generally defined as a fumble, wild throw, drop, misplay or obstruction with the exception of wild pitches or passed balls.  Nothing about chasing a ball to make a play that puts the defender out of position.  The closest thing to this is 10.13(e) which talks about the duty fielders to stop a good throw if there is one.

Another perspective on this that when a fielder dives and digs one out or makes a great catch the pitcher doesn't take a hit to the ERA.  That running catch in the gap with the bases loaded can turn that 2 inning 6 run outing into 5 innings of 2 run ball.  The universe has a way of leveling these things out - don't sweat'em.   

Thanks for the comment Luv.  But in a comment under definition of terms, page 147, there is this: Ordinary effort...is an objective standard in regard to any particular fielder. In other words, even if a fielder makes his best effort, if that effort falls short of what an average fielder at that position in that league would have made in a situation, the official scorer should charge that fielder with an error

I don't call myself an expert, but I've  taken that to encompass mental errors.  In this case, it would include an F1 failing to cover.  In same cases maybe even an F3 failing to cover. Or it would cover a SS failing to get an out on a cleanly fielded ground ball because he took his sweet time making a throw, or a guy throwing to the wrong base, etc.

JCG posted:

Thanks for the comment Luv.  But in a comment under definition of terms, page 147, there is this: Ordinary effort...is an objective standard in regard to any particular fielder. In other words, even if a fielder makes his best effort, if that effort falls short of what an average fielder at that position in that league would have made in a situation, the official scorer should charge that fielder with an error

I don't call myself an expert, but I've  taken that to encompass mental errors.  In this case, it would include an F1 failing to cover.  In same cases maybe even an F3 failing to cover. Or it would cover a SS failing to get an out on a cleanly fielded ground ball because he took his sweet time making a throw, or a guy throwing to the wrong base, etc.

The definition of error still applies which is the physical misplay of a ball.  

This definition would apply if a player goes to make an exceptional play, say a ball hit up the middle that the SS reaches, goes into a full stretch to reach the ball, gets his glove on it, but does not make the play because the ball popped out of his glove.  In this case, he went beyond ordinary effort, so an error would not be charged.  Another example would be a ball hit slightly to the SS's left.  An ordinary SS in his league would have made the play, but this guy didn't.  Ball goes through his legs.  It's an error because it only took ordinary effort to make the play.

Mental mistakes or errors in judgement do not constitute errors whether the play should ordinarily have been made or not.

bballman posted:

As a pitcher's dad, I hate these, but it's a hit.  Infield single.  No error, because there was no misplay on the ball.  Mental misplay's are not eligible to be errors.  Someone can come here and quote the rule for it, but it's there somewhere.  And if you want to place responsibility, it is on the pitcher...  As a pitcher, I would NEVER want the 1st baseman to not go after a ball to his right.  There are balls the 1st baseman could get to the the 2nd baseman could never get to.  If he doesn't do that, everyone would be complaining that he's lazy and won't even make a play.  All fielders in the vicinity should attempt to make a play on a batted ball, anything hit to the right side, pitcher should always be making a move to cover 1st.  

If it was my son pitching and this happened, I would politely say "you should have been there to cover", his response would have been "I know, it was my bad".

I catch myself, even now, watching a game & saying, "get over there" on a ground ball to the right side...

Isn't this the whole reason for PFPs?

Pitchers!

Bballman has it right.  If you do score errors on mental mistakes then you are not following the rules - which clearly address the scoring for mental mistakes not being an error.  There is no such thing as a mental error.  It is like a tie goes to the runner.  Nothing in the rules on that either.

Ordinary effort is a definition of how to score the handling the ball.  I.E. the expectation for a MLB player to field the ball and make a good throw is higher than a HS player. 

But ignoring Rule 10 and making stuff up on how the game should be scored is half the fun of it.  It always humors me when I hear people say stuff like - catcher should have blocked the ball in the dirt so it is a passed ball.  Nope - Rules say it is a wild pitch. 

Happily making up scoring decisions that are not in the rules or are opposite of what the book says doesn't change the outcomes of games and are fun to discuss.