Our new buddy, Tommy John

Swimfan2 posted:

Sounds like our 2017 is headed for UCL surgery.  I am a little familiar with what is involved but was wondering if you could share what to expect-is all activity limited or just throwing? for how long? Will he be able to write, drive, use a computer for the first few months? how many of your kids ended up back on the field?  Sounds like we can expect a year (give or take) before he will be playing again?  Seems like this will seriously alter college plans-not sure when and how to talk with college coaches about it-he's had 3 schools looking at him seriously...should we wait until surgery is done and we have a solid idea of recovery/progrnosis or tell them now?  Any advice is welcome

Can you share what you believe led to your son needing surgery?  I think this is a real fear of most parents today given that pitch counts are not mandated by the state. 

Tell them now, assuming it is scheduled. Find a good rehab specialist; consider the Wilk clinic in Birmingham if that's at all feasible. He will be in a sling/brace for the first 2-4 months with grip/ROM exercises depending on who chooses to rehab him and how aggressive they want to be (there is considerable variation in this, no two PTs and ortho partners are the same).

Sorry for the setbacks. If he focuses hard he can be back on the field in a year and pitch limited innings his SR year to compete.

Don't have any first hand experience with it, but it seems I see no small amount of kids with scares these days. It seems results really vary, with it being the end to some's career and others coming back stronger than ever. In fact while talking to some dads at a bar in FT. Mayer's one related the story of parents taking their perfectly healthy pitcher to the ortho and wanting the surgery because of seeing others come back and throw harder after TJ.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

Don't have any first hand experience with it, but it seems I see no small amount of kids with scares these days. It seems results really vary, with it being the end to some's career and others coming back stronger than ever. In fact while talking to some dads at a bar in FT. Mayer's one related the story of parents taking their perfectly healthy pitcher to the ortho and wanting the surgery because of seeing others come back and throw harder after TJ.

I have heard of parents trying to do that. Unbelievable. I can't imagine trying to convince any kid to go through major surgery because "you might get stronger and throw harder." Absolutely nuts! Take the time off and do the rehab for TJ without the surgery and I'll bet you'd see similar improvements! 

Search on the forums for a great poster "JH".  He did a blog about his TJ surgery awhile back.   Great first hand knowledge and he is a terrific writer.   I will see if I can find it and post back.

He doesn't post anymore, and I for one, miss him.

Here is the link to a blog post of when JH was cleared.  Go to the bottom and click on "older posts"  to get to the beginning and then enjoy reading through his journey with TJ surgery.

http://joshherzenberg.blogspot...e-rang-just-few.html

keewart posted:

Search on the forums for a great poster "JH".  He did a blog about his TJ surgery awhile back.   Great first hand knowledge and he is a terrific writer.   I will see if I can find it and post back.

He doesn't post anymore, and I for one, miss him.

Unfortunately, Josh had to largely go into "hiding" to some degree because of his job. I'm sure he'd love to still be around as well, but he's in a position now where he's got to be careful what conversations he has and where he allows that information to go online. I know he had an issue last year where he had posted something on social media and it got blasted out inappropriately. The message itself was great, but how it happened was a bit troublesome for him.. I remember talking to him about it. 

A year to recover and on the field, 2nd year to catch up and get fully back with real control.  He'll feel really good in 4 months and will be starting serious conditioning which is when the hard work of patience begins.  Before that writing, keyboarding won't be a problem after the first two weeks or so.  Its not legal to drive in our state with a brace on so I think t was at the 4 month mark although they let him pass his test with one on.  The key to full recovery is the diligence in rehab not so much the surgery.  It will be a frustrating, boringly repetitious recovery but if he perseveres he will have learned a lot about himself and discipline  bigger than baseball.   And, yes because of the rehab routine my son emerged all around physically stronger and mentally more resilient than before.  He also missed an important part of the recruiting cycle but still had good opportunities and new wisdom to weigh them with.  In the end, not an experience anyone should ever wish for however like all experiences it had a silver lining.  Be aware that high school age surgeries have a 50% failure rate because of lack of rehab follow through.  They don't have the support structure of college and pro players and its really tempting with all that new found free time to just have fun.   Also he will feel physically fine to play other sports but a reinjury is always a possibility so his doctor will ask him about priorities.  As Andrews says until that scar is white, there's risk.  We found an experienced trainer familiar with TJ to be invaluable both for the physical training and mental support because there is going to be discomfort and set backs.   Finally, he should use the time to get his grades as high as possible.  In the end that will serve to increase his recruiting attractiveness to a larger range of schools and provide a fallback for college admission.  Good luck to your son.   

LHP had TJ almost 17 months ago.  Now frosh in college.  Prior to TJ my son was sitting 86-87 with a bum arm. Tried rehab twice before finally seeking out a permanent fix to his arm.  Experienced no setbacks related to the surgery, rehab or throwing.  My son was religious about the recovery and rehab and never did more than he was told. His surgeon, Tim Kremcheck, didn't allow him to throw until 6 months in...stressing there was no reason to push it. 

He walked on campus this fall after and  started a new throwing program, and was able to go full capacity in fall ball. He did ok ...had control issues. His velo was sporadic...sometimes as low as 80...with his last outing sitting 85-86. .

The transition has been hard for him mentally as he would like to be farther along in returning to his pre-TJ self. The recovery provided him the opportunity to come into college in the best shape of his life....stronger than ever before and putting more weight on (he's 6'7" / 215).

 I can tell you that time has gone quickly and that each milestone of the rehab provided him something to hang onto. My son has a deep passion for the game and is hoping to follow a dream for as long as he can. He doesnt worry about his elbow...and has made great adjustments to mechanics to reduce stress on arm.

My son got down at times but made the decision to accept it....really had no choice if he wanted to keep playing. We are hoping as he moves into the Spring season and with more time, his velo will continue to climb. I have read that year two is where many start feeling normal again.

 Hang in there.   PM me if you would like more information or even my sons contact information....he would be more than willing to reach out to your son.  I truly believe this has made my son stronger on many levels and will just be part of his "story", and that much sweeter as the successes are achieved.  

Bulldog 19 posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

Don't have any first hand experience with it, but it seems I see no small amount of kids with scares these days. It seems results really vary, with it being the end to some's career and others coming back stronger than ever. In fact while talking to some dads at a bar in FT. Mayer's one related the story of parents taking their perfectly healthy pitcher to the ortho and wanting the surgery because of seeing others come back and throw harder after TJ.

I have heard of parents trying to do that. Unbelievable. I can't imagine trying to convince any kid to go through major surgery because "you might get stronger and throw harder." Absolutely nuts! Take the time off and do the rehab for TJ without the surgery and I'll bet you'd see similar improvements! 

Btw i think the reason why some players throw harder is the intense rehab program and physical training and not the surgery. Even in MLB there are pitchers for which the post surgery rehab was the first really serious physical workout in their life ( of course they worked out hard doing pitching, long toss and some basic lifting but I'm talking specialized strength excercises). Eric cressey wrote that baseball is a pretty bad sport for being in good physical shape because in season you have little time to work out due to games and travel and the offseason is short too ( and usually you will rest the first month of it).

many TJ pitchers are simply in the best shape of their life because they were working out every day for a year instead of traveling around, eating pretty badly, pitching and waiting for their arm to rest after a start.

i certainly don't think that it is the surgery and I would strongly discourage that ( I also heard that the chances to come back from second TJ is worse than the first one, so it probably makes sense to delay the first one as long as possible).

Son had surgery 10/13, stayed about a month ahead of rehab schedule. Doc says because he only pitched for 3 weeks, infielder / catcher that was converted in college, that there was less stress on the rest of the arm and everything lined up perfect that it helped move it along.

At 8 months he was given the go full throttle in all baseball activities by doc. He worked out the rest of the summer, started fall ball and wasn't 100%, well maybe he was but was overly cautious with everything he did. 

Went back after the break and has been back to normal and he says he can throw 80% across the diamond and it's better than his 100% used to be. He says he lets one fly 100% every practice during in and out and he says it's easily 5mph harder than he's ever thrown. 

A friend he played with in high school came by and they were talking and he told him I don't know what it is but when I came back from the break my arm and everything felt new. He said in the fall I still had it in my head and was scared to hurt something. 

So I guess in a nutshell it is a year long or longer process no matter when cleared. The mental part is probably just as important as the physical part. 

lionbaseball posted:

Swimfan2 posted:

Sounds like our 2017 is headed for UCL surgery.  I am a little familiar with what is involved but was wondering if you could share what to expect-is all activity limited or just throwing? for how long? Will he be able to write, drive, use a computer for the first few months? how many of your kids ended up back on the field?  Sounds like we can expect a year (give or take) before he will be playing again?  Seems like this will seriously alter college plans-not sure when and how to talk with college coaches about it-he's had 3 schools looking at him seriously...should we wait until surgery is done and we have a solid idea of recovery/progrnosis or tell them now?  Any advice is welcome

Can you share what you believe led to your son needing surgery?  I think this is a real fear of most parents today given that pitch counts are not mandated by the state. 

Not pitch counts with him.  His coaches, both travel and school, are hardcore about not overusing pitchers.  He is coming off 8 weeks of no throwing/down time so that may have played into it somehow. I really couldn't guess.  He'll have his eval this week and we will see if PT or surgery-hopefully PT.

People always want to find "the reason." While normal, there's just a large amount of variance around UCL injuries. It could just be bad luck, anatomical, whatever. It is what it is, sometimes.

Dominik85 posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

Don't have any first hand experience with it, but it seems I see no small amount of kids with scares these days. It seems results really vary, with it being the end to some's career and others coming back stronger than ever. In fact while talking to some dads at a bar in FT. Mayer's one related the story of parents taking their perfectly healthy pitcher to the ortho and wanting the surgery because of seeing others come back and throw harder after TJ.

I have heard of parents trying to do that. Unbelievable. I can't imagine trying to convince any kid to go through major surgery because "you might get stronger and throw harder." Absolutely nuts! Take the time off and do the rehab for TJ without the surgery and I'll bet you'd see similar improvements! 

Btw i think the reason why some players throw harder is the intense rehab program and physical training and not the surgery. Even in MLB there are pitchers for which the post surgery rehab was the first really serious physical workout in their life ( of course they worked out hard doing pitching, long toss and some basic lifting but I'm talking specialized strength excercises). Eric cressey wrote that baseball is a pretty bad sport for being in good physical shape because in season you have little time to work out due to games and travel and the offseason is short too ( and usually you will rest the first month of it).

many TJ pitchers are simply in the best shape of their life because they were working out every day for a year instead of traveling around, eating pretty badly, pitching and waiting for their arm to rest after a start.

i certainly don't think that it is the surgery and I would strongly discourage that ( I also heard that the chances to come back from second TJ is worse than the first one, so it probably makes sense to delay the first one as long as possible).

Oh you're definitely right. I'm trying to convince kids to take a break all the time.. it's not easy for them to understand! I also tell kids that their surgery is the easiest part of the whole process. It's the rehab afterwards that's so difficult! That can go for any orthopedic surgery: Tommy John, ACL, FAI, etc. Gotta have faith in the rehab process.

swimfan2 - Sorry to read about your son.  The good news is in all likelihood he will be fine...but it will take some time.

Our older son had TJ almost 2 years ago now (April 2014).  He had just broke into the big leagues the year before and felt he was on the cusp of sticking.  He missed the entire 2014 season - rehabbing the whole time.  Last year he spent nearly all of the season in the minor leagues with a September callup, but did not pitch in a big league game.

Despite all of the best care and rehab (which he got), he was still surprised to learn new things along the way.  Velocity came back fairly quickly - and by the end of the year was up even about 2-3 mph.  But the biggest thing that was a struggle was command of his pitches.  Command is different than control in that he could throw strikes, but he found it difficult to put the ball where he wanted to put it in or out of the strike zone.  By his account, that took nearly the entire summer last year and he was pretty frustrated along the way - yet many of his teammates and the organizational people told him it was normal and to just be patient.

Every journey back is different.  I just wanted to quickly give you a story that would (hopefully) get you ready for the 'patience' you may both need if you want to be as good or even better than he was before.

All the best. 

Dominik85 posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

Don't have any first hand experience with it, but it seems I see no small amount of kids with scares these days. It seems results really vary, with it being the end to some's career and others coming back stronger than ever. In fact while talking to some dads at a bar in FT. Mayer's one related the story of parents taking their perfectly healthy pitcher to the ortho and wanting the surgery because of seeing others come back and throw harder after TJ.

I have heard of parents trying to do that. Unbelievable. I can't imagine trying to convince any kid to go through major surgery because "you might get stronger and throw harder." Absolutely nuts! Take the time off and do the rehab for TJ without the surgery and I'll bet you'd see similar improvements! 

Btw i think the reason why some players throw harder is the intense rehab program and physical training and not the surgery. Even in MLB there are pitchers for which the post surgery rehab was the first really serious physical workout in their life ( of course they worked out hard doing pitching, long toss and some basic lifting but I'm talking specialized strength excercises). Eric cressey wrote that baseball is a pretty bad sport for being in good physical shape because in season you have little time to work out due to games and travel and the offseason is short too ( and usually you will rest the first month of it).

many TJ pitchers are simply in the best shape of their life because they were working out every day for a year instead of traveling around, eating pretty badly, pitching and waiting for their arm to rest after a start.

i certainly don't think that it is the surgery and I would strongly discourage that ( I also heard that the chances to come back from second TJ is worse than the first one, so it probably makes sense to delay the first one as long as possible).

I've often wondered what kind of results you would have if you took a healthy pitcher at, say 16, and simply took a year off and did all the work someone rehabbing from TJ surgery would do. I'd love to see what kind of pitcher you came out the other side with.

roothog66 posted:

le).

 

I've often wondered what kind of results you would have if you took a healthy pitcher at, say 16, and simply took a year off and did all the work someone rehabbing from TJ surgery would do. I'd love to see what kind of pitcher you came out the other side with.

This is close to what my son went through at 15.  The process was a little abbreviated because he was dealing with tendonitis rather than actually having a tear repaired.  However his PT handled the case as if he had gone through the surgery.

He went through 5-6 months of rehab and gym work, then the return to throwing protocol.  He kept up the gym and made a few mechanical changes once the was cleared to get back on the mound.

After about 10 months he was back to full velocity without any pain.  He added about 10 mph over that time frame.  Some of that I attribute to the mechanical changes, but a big portion to the fact he was considerably stronger.

I suspect that he was like most guys who go through TJ surgery.  They may have "worked out" or "conditioned", but never in a rigorous, regimented manner with the proper exercises.  It really makes a difference.

My wild speculative guess is that even if they didn't take the year off, many pitchers would improve their performance, and reduce their injury risk if they just got in the gym before getting hurt instead of after.