Over the Top vs Side Arm

Due to the spin imparted on the ball, I have found that an over the top pitchers ball will be much straighter. Might have more of an angle, but will be more on line. A low 3/4 or sidearm will have more "run" on the ball due to the sideways spin.

My son throws a low 3/4 slot (RHP) and his fastball runs about 4-6 inches in on a right handed batter. Leads to a lot of slow grounders off the handle and weak bloopers off the handle.

Don't worry about sidearmers being able to sink the ball. The good ones can make the ball sink just fine. I'm seeing more and more college pitchers being converted to sicde armers around our area than ever before. They're mostly specialists, and one or two inning guys.

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Originally posted by StatManLV:
This may be a stupid question, but wouldn't a side arm pitcher be easier to hit than an over-the-top pitcher (all else being equal)?

Yes, unless he has good movement on his fastball (which is often a byproduct of a lower arm slot) to compensate for a generally poorer curveball.

The result is mostly a wash, which is why you see many different arm slots.

We have an example of a good side-arm, low 3/4 slot pitcher at a local college.He does a great job of getting ground balls when he stays within himself and keeps the ball down. He has late downward movement when he does this. When he tries to muscle up on a pitch his ball comes up and flattens out and usually gets him in trouble. Take it for what it's worth.

I would say a side armer is more difficult if you're talking lefty vs. lefty or righty vs. righty. Another thing that I have seen from side armers is a tendency to throw across their body more- this allows them to hide the ball better than you would think, adding a little more deception.

College coaches are limited in resources regarding pitching spots these days. They have what they have and need to utilize every player to the maximum. I see more guys getting converted to side-arm guys because that's the only way these pitchers are going to contribute. Change an 85 and straight guy into an 81 with movement guy who has a different release. Throw him one time through on a Sunday and he now is able to eat up innings- thus, earning his scholarship.

Guys get changed into side-arm guys or knuckle ball guys because what they were doing was usually not working. Sometimes it saves careers (see Chad Bradford and Tim Wakefield).

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Will concur with '06 and Ncball on this one...and I would add that this is becoming pop wisdom at the college level...IMO coaches are VERY wary of pitchers with "flat" over the top fastballs at most any velocity, have heard that over and over from college recruiters.

Both mine were successful pitchers in HS...Both were told by many recruiters that their arm slots were too high...both arm slots were changed in college ball...both found the change long and difficult...the jury is still out but the results are both interesting and mixed.

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There are a lot more over the top pitchers out there than side arm and sub guys. there must be a good reason for that. I have seen some very effective side armers and sub pitchers but they are a minority.
A good over the top guy has a better leverage point and gets on top of the ball better getting better late break on the ball.

Nobody is denying that. No question they are the minority. It's not like side armers are going to take over. The point is that the guys they are converting were not effective against their competition doing what they are doing. They made a change so that they could get on the field. Regarding late break, what would you call Kevin Brown's sinker. He had a fairly low 3/4 slot and was absolutely filthy with his late run and sink. Definitely a two-plane pitch

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quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
There are a lot more over the top pitchers out there than side arm and sub guys. there must be a good reason for that. I have seen some very effective side armers and sub pitchers but they are a minority.
A good over the top guy has a better leverage point and gets on top of the ball better getting better late break on the ball.

My son is a low 3/4 guy. No one taught him to throw that way. Just his natural slot. He has a lot of movement on his fastball and throws it pretty hard. He does not have a 12-6 curve, but has a good change up as well as a cut fastball/slider that breaks down and away from RHB's (RHP). His fastball tails in on RHB's.

His pitching coach is a AA minor league pitching coach and every year he tells us, more than once "Don't let anyone change his arm slot". He has been very effective up to this point.

He is a 15 year old freshman and has never had any arm problems. I have always been leery about changing someone's arm slot. I think when you do that, you are not throwing naturally and could be more prone to injury. JMO.

I see lots of good side arm and submarine guys. 3/4 is not side arm in my opinion.

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Simply for another point of reference...

yep, not a lot of TRUE sidearm guys or submarine guys, but there are a heck of a lot of "less than over the top" guys...3/4 and 5/8 guys...and that is where most coach directed arm slot changes would be headed. In our cases I think they took a couple OTT big guys who would have been "roster" college pitchers and took the risk to see if they could create something special.

As far as injuries go...that is a good point...but having gone through the thing twice I am not yet convinced that any specific arm slot alone is injury/risk free. While I am a general fan of "natural" arm slots and the resulting smooth/effortless kinetic chain...for most I am not convinced that for most pitchers given the rigors/stresses of pitching that most all motions don't inherently come with thir own risks and danger points...and that changing arm slots is simply trading one possible stresspoint for another.

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I guess it's certainly far from cut and dried... thanks for the responses!!