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Parental Showcase Meltdown?

Coach WaltripCoach Waltrip100+ posts
This last weekend I was at the Arizona Junior Fall Classic and saw a parent go into a meltdown mode yelling at the umpire. However, maybe some of you have seen such something like this...If yes, I would be curious to hear about it.

My son was on the 2012 AZPro team that played a team from a country north of the US on Sunday that will remain nameless here on this post (to protect the innocent of course!)

This incident occurred like this...

Everything was going so well until the top of the 1st inning!

That's when the umpire threw out the other team's head coach for challenging pitches...followed after a few more pitches by the assistant coach, which then got a dad into the mix with the umpire whom quickly chucked him as well. The dad showed little regard for his behavior and was very verbally abusive, i.e. every word in the book. It looked as if he was going to get violent at one point until the now ejected coach talked him out of it.

My initial thoughts were this...no wonder some kids today have no respect for authority since dads like this seem to think he can freely challenge the umpire with insults, abusive taunts and embarrassing displays. Could it be father like son?

Wow, what a spectacle he caused in front of everybody...including college coaches and recruiters...very, very embarrassing and un-necessary
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justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
Every once in a long while you see something like this. Its embarrassing for everyone in the ballpark...most especially the son. Thats really too bad, I feel sorry for the son.

The most surprising thing to me is that the format of that event has essentially no focus on winning. Given that, its usually pretty darn calm...most especially from the coaches. I guess I can imagine a parent getting frustrated over balls/strikes, but I cannot see any reason for a coach to be ejected over any call in this format.

Too bad. Sad. Big red flag for colleges.
Coach WaltripCoach Waltrip100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by justbaseball:
but I cannot see any reason for a coach to be ejected over any call in this format.

Too bad. Sad. Big red flag for colleges.



From where I was sitting I couldn't hear what the head coach was saying to get thrown out except the pitcher was struggling...I personally think this was one of those 'angry umpires' who had little patience. However, I'm sure you'd agree this does not excuse abusive behavior from a dad...

Ya think a college coach would want this guy's kid on his team? (sarcasm intended)
B brod100+ posts
I'll go one better. I saw a poster here on this site throw the umpire out of a game!

Here's the situation: Umpire with rabbit ears talking back to fans of opposing team. Clearly making wrong calls to hurt fans of team making remarks. My son's team's coach stops game, and points to umpire, saying he is making mockery of game. Umpire throws him out. But instead, Coach says, "No, you're out of the game!" and makes a phone call to tournament director. Eventually umpire leaves the field, and both sets of coaches umpire rest of game.

The coach threw the umpire out of the game! One of the coolest and most ethical things I have ever seen in baseball.
L Leftysidearmom100+ posts
justbaseball, ITA. Worse for the son than anyone else. What a dumb thing to do to your kid. I also don't understand how anyone that truly understands the format and purpose of showcase would get so aggitated.

In a showcase game recently, my son had a balk called on him that was obviously a bad call as he never moved a muscle. He had been brought in to relieve with bases loaded and we were up by one run. That bad call cost him the win. Watching the video the next day, we were still befuddled at the call. But son turned it around by keeping his calm and composure and striking the batter out on the next two pitches. After the game, we told him that what he exhibited after the bad call was probably more valuable than anything he had done prior in the game. That's what showcases are for right?

How can a kid get so far to go to an AZ showcase and the parent not understand what the colleges are looking for in both the player and parent. Wow.
Last edited by Leftysidearmom
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach Waltrip:
quote:
Originally posted by justbaseball:
but I cannot see any reason for a coach to be ejected over any call in this format.

Too bad. Sad. Big red flag for colleges.



From where I was sitting I couldn't hear what the head coach was saying to get thrown out except the pitcher was struggling...I personally think this was one of those 'angry umpires' who had little patience. However, I'm sure you'd agree this does not excuse abusive behavior from a dad...

Ya think a college coach would want this guy's kid on his team? (sarcasm intended)


you couldnt hear what was said, but you personally think it was the umpires fault?......

please...
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by brod:
Clearly making wrong calls to hurt fans of team making remarks. .


I wont work with cheaters.........and it would be the last time he drew a game from my association...

I only worked one game with a cheater...3 man game, my regular partner and I are on the bases and the plate umpire is squeezing the strike zone on one team visible to both my partner and I....

at the break of the inning we walked in and asked him point blank what he was doing...seems he had a beef with the coach of one team and was getting even...

we told him if he missed one more pitch, we were walking off the field and he could explain to the TD why we wont work the rest of the game...he never missed another pitch....and 5 years later, Ive never worked a game with him again....

there are umpires out there doing games who should not be doing the job....
Coach WaltripCoach Waltrip100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by piaa_ump:
quote:
Originally posted by Coach Waltrip:
quote:
Originally posted by justbaseball:
but I cannot see any reason for a coach to be ejected over any call in this format.

Too bad. Sad. Big red flag for colleges.



From where I was sitting I couldn't hear what the head coach was saying to get thrown out except the pitcher was struggling...I personally think this was one of those 'angry umpires' who had little patience. However, I'm sure you'd agree this does not excuse abusive behavior from a dad...

Ya think a college coach would want this guy's kid on his team? (sarcasm intended)


you couldnt hear what was said, but you personally think it was the umpires fault?......

please...


I see lots of coaches having issues with umpires' calls...and I doubt very seriously a coach that came all the way down from Canada playing a game where winning or losing doesn't mean a thing...just that your kids are treated fairly by an umpire that has a strike zone all over the place, said anything that was out of order. And yes, it did look like the strikezone was all over the place to me as well...

Since I was there I think I can judge that issue...however, verbal abuse by a dad is no excuse.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach Waltrip:
Additionally, since I was there...I did see and hear the asst coach get tossed by the same unpire for asking him to keep his calls consistent...only one time did he say this, which caused him to get tossed. Do I still think the ump was an 'angry umpire'? Most definately...


after his head coach gets tossed for arguing balls and strikes the assistant has to get a last jab in?....

I'm certainly willing to believe you that the HC might have deserved some more leeway before the ol heave ho..but that depends on what was said.....(however, all coaches know you cant argue balls and strikes)......but assistants dont get that leeway .....not at the higher levels .....
Last edited by piaa_ump
H Homerun041,000+ posts
Dang, my son has been in AZ for the last three weekends scouting and he must have missed it!

I heard about what Brod brouhgt up, my younger son was just hanging out at the game and he said it was the funniest thing! Used to be the coach would get thrown out alot that one of the other coaches had a T-shirt made: "I am not R**", don't throw me out.

Short of that, obviously they did not understand what the AZ Fall classic was all about....
Last edited by Homerun04
BOFBOF10,000+ posts
We were there and had great umps, and one bad ump. (just happens that we also had him during the USA Baseball tournament in June). The only thing the bad ump did was irritate some of the fans (little chirping nothing more). He did not change the game one iota since no score was kept. Good pitchers looked good, good hitters looked good, even when they were called out on strikes on a ball. The coach was really out of line if he did not understand the whole point of the tournament. Shame on him for putting his players in a bad situation.
06catcherdad06catcherdad1,000+ posts
Coach Waltrip, I didn't see this, but when you and I were visiting at our game, the plate umpire we had was probably as incompetant as any to have ever worked one of our games in Arizona. You didn't hear anyone complaining. The rules in the Jr. Fall Classic made it clear to all participants that we're in a SHOWCASE, and that scores are not being kept, nor winners recognized, AND THAT NO ARGUING WITH UMPIRES WOULD BE TOLERATED. The way I dealt with the plate ump was to ask his partner to deal with it. The base umpire agreed that he was not qualified to be out there, and he brought tournament officials over to watch the guy work. They talked to me, and I declined to have a new umpire brought in, I simply asked that they not use the guy for any other games. You didn't see any of the fans acting like idiots, for either team.

My guess is that this team may not be invited back next year, as the coaches know Ted's rules, and pretty much everyone goes by them with no controversy.

It was a great team showcase, lots of college coaches and some quality competition. We're definitely looking forward to going back next year.
Last edited by 06catcherdad
Coach WaltripCoach Waltrip100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by brod:
I'll go one better. I saw a poster here on this site throw the umpire out of a game!

Here's the situation: Umpire with rabbit ears talking back to fans of opposing team. Clearly making wrong calls to hurt fans of team making remarks. My son's team's coach stops game, and points to umpire, saying he is making mockery of game. Umpire throws him out. But instead, Coach says, "No, you're out of the game!" and makes a phone call to tournament director. Eventually umpire leaves the field, and both sets of coaches umpire rest of game.

The coach threw the umpire out of the game! One of the coolest and most ethical things I have ever seen in baseball.



Brod,

That is hilarious!!!!
Coach WaltripCoach Waltrip100+ posts
Coach Sozzi,

It could have been the same guy...

But you're right, arguing balls and strikes in a showcase game is not smart. Especially, when it escalates into what I witnessed...

I agree about the showcase...it was really a good place to expose your players to college coaches and recruiters. Well worth the time and effort...I suspect that the dad in question is probably now kicking himself in the butt for his behavior. I didn't see any of the other parents involved in the controversy. They were no doubt very embarrassed by this unacceptable behavior.
Last edited by Coach Waltrip
Q Quincy1,000+ posts
In defense of the parent, the cost of joining a team, traveling to the showcase/game and food and lodging while at the showcase/game can be quite an expensive undertaking. After all the sacrifice of time and money, to have your child or child's team be treated to a substandard umpire can be disheartening or maddening.

We are all human. The parent made a bad decision, but by the same standard, the showcase/game organizer made a bad decision in subjecting the teams, coaches , players and parents to the substandard umpire.

With the 'No Refunds' rule in effect, the organizer should be held to a higher standard than a coach and especially a parent in this situation.

The organizer should have seen that an unusual incident was taking place with the substandard umpire being the cause. The organizer should have removed the substandard umpire, replaced him/her and apologized to the coaches, players and parents who had to suffer the actions of the substandard umpire.

There should be no repercussions for the player or the parent or the coaches in this matter.

The failure of the organizer to vet his umpires was the cause of the entire incident.

In a sad sense, I feel bad for the parent to have become so incensed with the unfair treatment of all involved especially at the cost involved.
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Ok let's think about this....in a perfect world these showcase games would have been played with very good umpires but as we all know it's not perfect. Therefore we are left with umps who are just not very good. That being said it's still no reason to act like an idiot. Bad umpiring isn't going to hurt the players in a situation like this.

This is showcase baseball where wins and losses don't matter because only 5 things matter - the 5 tools. A college coach at one of these things will look at a kid and say "i'm not going to recruit this kid because he didn't get anybody out during that showcase game". They are going to look at the tools the kids have and see if there is anything to work with or develop. They are smart enough to see what the ump is doing and realize he stinks.

No excuse for this behavior because bad umpiring will not hurt them. Being able to get on a field and show their skills off is the whole purpose of the games - not to win.
Q Quincy1,000+ posts
Using the same rationale, the coaches then should not have been ejected since it was a showcase and not a game. The parent then would not have seen the team leadership sent away from the players leaving them rudderless.

Bad organization. If the ump doesn't light the match, there is no fire.

Organizer should apologize to the affected team, players and parents.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
quote:
This is showcase baseball where wins and losses don't matter because only 5 things matter - the 5 tools. A college coach at one of these things will look at a kid and say "i'm not going to recruit this kid because he didn't get anybody out during that showcase game". They are going to look at the tools the kids have and see if there is anything to work with or develop. They are smart enough to see what the ump is doing and realize he stinks.


coach,

True, but...

I've seen many times where a hitter is rung up on a real bad third strike call. You are right when it comes to scouting, but it is still unfair to that hitter. We always write a note that the hitter struck out on a bad call. However, parents and even players don't always understand exactly how all this stuff works.

Pitchers are not really hurt as much by bad umpiring, for the reasons you have mentioned. Still the parents and player might not understand. Scouts and recruiters have no problem figuring things out, based on what they see.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
From my experience at showcase events the strike zones tend to favor the pitchers. The umpires want to move the games along and most of the hitters are looking to be aggressive and swing the bat. No ones wants to walk at one of these events. But I would say a pitcher being squeezed is akin to a hitter getting screwe_d by a huge and inconsistent strike zone as well.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
quote:
PGStaff, I bef to differ with you on your opinion that pitchers are hurt as much by the umpires. A pitcher that is being sqeezed, to the point that the strike zone in the size of a dinner plate, is at distinct disadvantage.


jjbaseball,

Guess what I meant was... The hitter who doesn't swing at a bad pitch, can't show any hitting ability on that pitch. He has to sit down, losing his opportunity to show his ability in that at bat when he actually did the right thing by not chasing. The umpire took away an opportunity.

The pitcher displays his ability on every pitch. While the umpire can cause a problem with the results, the scouts/recruiters still see the ability. They also know when a pitcher is being sqeezed rather than just being wild. The umpire can not take away the pitchers opportunity.

Now if we are talking about winning and losing games rather than a showcase, that is a different story.

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