Question: Do you think parents are too involved in the college recruiting process? Some parents want to do everything for their kids but there are some who want to sit back and do nothing.
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A parent should be heavily invoved as long as they know what they are doing. You have to be careful you don't over sell and start to look like an other
over zealous parent. My son's job was to play BB study, work and supply input into what he was looking for in a college.
over zealous parent. My son's job was to play BB study, work and supply input into what he was looking for in a college.
The baseball recruiting process is overwhelming. This website attests to the vast amount of information and advice available. From my very limited experience in the process, I have learned that two things play very important parts: academics and ability. It is (or was) enough for my son to concentrate on both of those aspects of the recruiting process and leave the organizational aspects to his parents. While we presented materials and ideas to our son about what we'd found about colleges, coaches, teams and summer leagues, he often had input from what he'd heard from other players or coaches. In the end, the key events that lead to his recruitment success had little to do with what we did for him in the recruiting process. However, had we not taken an active role in understanding the recruiting process, he never would have experienced the key events. I think that, depending on the high school, league teams, area where you live and how much exposure your son gets, parents almost have to assume a majority of responsibility for the recruiting process. There just isn't hours in the day for a kid to do it all. This website lays it all out there for any parent or player to see. The "template" is easy to follow. I don't see the need for recruiting services unless, as a parent, you don't have the time to do it.
I know my son would not know enough to negotiate the offers he got. Most people accept the 1st dollar amount without sending it back for more money. Coaches dealing with a 19yo have an advantage. It took 2 weeks to get a final offer. Also we know what we were prepared to spend. Even with a great scholarship it still costs a l;ot of money to go to college. One friend who's daughter supposedly had a full ride, spent $10,000 a year.
In that you asked a question that was "general" in nature, I will give you and answer that is "general" in nature.
Looking back at kids that either moved on or wanted to move on after HS, I found that the kids whose parents were informed, open and involved had the greatest success. The parents that "believed" that their kids should go on, but were either uninformed or dillusional as to what level they should seek, failed to find an opportunity.
In my mind, the bigest help that parents can be in the process is to become informed. Learn what the world looks like and what opportunities may be out there. Otherwise kids generally listen to other kids and that presents a problem unto itself.
Looking back at kids that either moved on or wanted to move on after HS, I found that the kids whose parents were informed, open and involved had the greatest success. The parents that "believed" that their kids should go on, but were either uninformed or dillusional as to what level they should seek, failed to find an opportunity.
In my mind, the bigest help that parents can be in the process is to become informed. Learn what the world looks like and what opportunities may be out there. Otherwise kids generally listen to other kids and that presents a problem unto itself.
Yes, academics and ability are very important aspects of the recruiting process, but it is very important for the player to be very involved in the recruiting process as well, I see nothing wrong with Newcomer's process of assisting the player with the organizational aspects of finding the resources, processes, researching the schools and their needs, showcases, summer teams, camps, etc., but the ownership of contacting the school needs to remain on the player, even if the parent creates the correspondence and completes the questionnaires, it needs to come from the player with his name and signature, not the parent.
Coaches want to get to know the player and talk to them to find out what his makeup is and how much does he want to play for his program and succeed in his program, not the parent. Most all communication should involve the player and the coaches with very little interaction with the parents and the coaches except maybe the financial aspects.
The player also needs to be comfortable with the coaches as well, because the recruiting process is grinding but if the player is not comfortable with the coach who makes up the line-up, it is not going to be any good to play in the program.
Coaches want to get to know the player and talk to them to find out what his makeup is and how much does he want to play for his program and succeed in his program, not the parent. Most all communication should involve the player and the coaches with very little interaction with the parents and the coaches except maybe the financial aspects.
The player also needs to be comfortable with the coaches as well, because the recruiting process is grinding but if the player is not comfortable with the coach who makes up the line-up, it is not going to be any good to play in the program.
quote:Looking back at kids that either moved on or wanted to move on after HS, I found that the kids whose parents were informed, open and involved had the greatest success. The parents that "believed" that their kids should go on, but were either uninformed or dillusional as to what level they should seek, failed to find an opportunity.
I have also found this to be true.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I know my son would not know enough to negotiate the offers he got. Most people accept the 1st dollar amount without sending it back for more money. Coaches dealing with a 19yo have an advantage. It took 2 weeks to get a final offer. Also we know what we were prepared to spend. Even with a great scholarship it still costs a l;ot of money to go to college. One friend who's daughter supposedly had a full ride, spent $10,000 a year.
Well that does not sound like a full ride, does it
either they did not know what a full ride was or they were taken for a ride.
HR what you describe takes about 5 mins.
My son never talked to a coach until the preliminaries were out of the way. A couple offers were made and he never talked to the coaches involved. All they cared about is whether he could pitch, get along with other players and succeed in academics.
The fact that he played elite BB showed most of that. The college he is at the coach asked for my son to call him on his cell. They talked and laughed for about 10 mins and the offer was fedexed the next morning.
After the commitment I only talked to the coach when he contacted me. Once was to say how wonderful he was as a BB player and a young man. Yes the coach asked if he wanted to play at the college.
My son never talked to a coach until the preliminaries were out of the way. A couple offers were made and he never talked to the coaches involved. All they cared about is whether he could pitch, get along with other players and succeed in academics.
The fact that he played elite BB showed most of that. The college he is at the coach asked for my son to call him on his cell. They talked and laughed for about 10 mins and the offer was fedexed the next morning.
After the commitment I only talked to the coach when he contacted me. Once was to say how wonderful he was as a BB player and a young man. Yes the coach asked if he wanted to play at the college.
quote:Originally posted by alwoods:
Question: Do you think parents are too involved in the college recruiting process?
Involvement could take many different meanings, each with it's own level of involvement. Some would consider it marketing and making contact with coaches, while others could take it to mean researching colleges and baseball programs for their son.
All I can do is profile what we did.
Parent-
I put together a spreadsheet of the colleges that had contacted my son, and included some he was interested in that hadn't. The spreadsheet showed all the stats I could come up with regarding the college...
Size
Location (state)
Costs
ACT/SAT profile
Avg Class Rank
Ranked it on 10pt scale as to academic standing
Baseball Stats
Conference
previous 2 years W-L record and conf standing
Number of years head coach had been there
previous 3 years RPI
number of JR's & SR's at his position
Then went through the list and gave each instituion a rank 1-10 with Junior based on his level of interest in each.
Other than that, I remained in the background, there to talk to a coach if he wanted, but passing the phone off to my son or standing a distance away when the coach wanted to talk to Jr.
My involvement also involved prodding Jr. to follow up with schools/coaches and talk to him about how to talk to adults and what questions he should ask.
I feel like I was heavily involved because I did much of the background and leg work. However, when it came to contact, Jr. was out front.
On official visits I sat quietly while they talked. In all our visits, I don't think I talked much unless the coach asked me something specifically, or it was to clarify something said, especially regarding the scholarship offer.
That was just our way of doing it.
HR it was from Boston U and they said there were costs that they hadn't anticipated. I think the term Full Ride is thrown around way too much. People think if they didn't get a full ride their athlete is not a great athlete.
I believe parents HAVE TO BE INVOLVED! That does not imply that we do all of the work for them. But to cast a 17-year old out there on his/her own would not be wise IMO.
My involvement included: keeping a data base of contacts/letters/information, researching programs that our son was interested in, getting our son to venues that fit his goals, keeping a running conversation with our son about his thoughts/dreams/worries and offering advice when appropriate, pointing out pros and cons of various options including summer teams/events/coaches.
My involvement did not include: calling coaches for him (other than understanding deadlines for applications/transcripts/etc...), answering the phone for him, negotiating scholarship amounts for him (we gave him our guideline for what we were able to pay...the rest was up to him), nor telling him which school to pick.
We also went on visits with him (unofficial and official)...but let him drive the conversations. We weren't silent by any means...we asked the typical parent questions about academic support, living/dormitory conditions/policies, expectations, etc...
I just think its all a balance. We parents cannot do everything, nor should we. But we provide support where/when we can and occasionally ask the probing question that our sons aren't confident or experienced enough to know how to ask.
My involvement included: keeping a data base of contacts/letters/information, researching programs that our son was interested in, getting our son to venues that fit his goals, keeping a running conversation with our son about his thoughts/dreams/worries and offering advice when appropriate, pointing out pros and cons of various options including summer teams/events/coaches.
My involvement did not include: calling coaches for him (other than understanding deadlines for applications/transcripts/etc...), answering the phone for him, negotiating scholarship amounts for him (we gave him our guideline for what we were able to pay...the rest was up to him), nor telling him which school to pick.
We also went on visits with him (unofficial and official)...but let him drive the conversations. We weren't silent by any means...we asked the typical parent questions about academic support, living/dormitory conditions/policies, expectations, etc...
I just think its all a balance. We parents cannot do everything, nor should we. But we provide support where/when we can and occasionally ask the probing question that our sons aren't confident or experienced enough to know how to ask.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
I believe parents HAVE TO BE INVOLVED! That does not imply that we do all of the work for them. But to cast a 17-year old out there on his/her own would not be wise IMO.
My involvement included: keeping a data base of contacts/letters/information, researching programs that our son was interested in, getting our son to venues that fit his goals, keeping a running conversation with our son about his thoughts/dreams/worries and offering advice when appropriate, pointing out pros and cons of various options including summer teams/events/coaches.
My involvement did not include: calling coaches for him (other than understanding deadlines for applications/transcripts/etc...), answering the phone for him, negotiating scholarship amounts for him (we gave him our guideline for what we were able to pay...the rest was up to him), nor telling him which school to pick.
We also went on visits with him (unofficial and official)...but let him drive the conversations. We weren't silent by any means...we asked the typical parent questions about academic support, living/dormitory conditions/policies, expectations, etc...
I just think its all a balance. We parents cannot do everything, nor should we. But we provide support where/when we can and occasionally ask the probing question that our sons aren't confident or experienced enough to know how to ask.
What he said.
We may have been a little more involved in the financial aspect of my son's "negations" but other than that we did exactly as justbaseball's family.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
HR what you describe takes about 5 mins.
My son never talked to a coach until the preliminaries were out of the way. A couple offers were made and he never talked to the coaches involved. All they cared about is whether he could pitch, get along with other players and succeed in academics.
The fact that he played elite BB showed most of that. The college he is at the coach asked for my son to call him on his cell. They talked and laughed for about 10 mins and the offer was fedexed the next morning.
After the commitment I only talked to the coach when he contacted me. Once was to say how wonderful he was as a BB player and a young man. Yes the coach asked if he wanted to play at the college.
I would have to say that your recruiting experience was very successful on your behalf, but it may not work for every case.
The players that I am familiar with all had many and long conversations with coaches, again so the coaches could get to know them and their interest level and for the players to get to know the coaches.
Just playing for one of the top travel team in the country and some of the top high schools in the country, did not exempt them from going through the process with the top schools they were being recruited by. Even the players who went to less visible schools and/or JC's had a lot of conversations with the coaches.
I think those coaches who do not go through the process of working with the players and just make offers without doing the research will not have a successful program and will not be in their jobs for very long.
95% of the time my son was away, playing ball , basketball or in school. the coaches had no issue talking to me and some conversations lasted over an hour. I just explaned where he was. Most of them gave me a cell number and a best time to call once we had reached the point of number crunching. So we had offers from coaches who never talked to my son and who only saw his DVD. I suppose that si not the norm but if my son was busy he was busy. The coaches seemed to like that. I never had a coach not want to talk to me as opposed to my son. I was talking to approx 25 colleges and merely kept them organized and did brief research on them with my son. His main interest was top competition and great location. Coaches like his criteria about top competition.
Great players and prospects don't need much parental involvement other than help in evaluating options.
Average players need heavy parental involvement just to organize data and review marginal options.
Below average players (not even DIII material) don't need any help. It is these players for whom heavy parental involvement is not too healthy.
Average players need heavy parental involvement just to organize data and review marginal options.
Below average players (not even DIII material) don't need any help. It is these players for whom heavy parental involvement is not too healthy.
I'm right in the middle of this for my '09. He plays for a real good fall travel team and the coach thinks he is D2/D3/low D1 material.
We are looking at a ton of schools from Boston to Maryland. His grades/SATs are ok, not great. He is undecided in his major. There are literally over 100 schools that could fit the bill.
He is playing ball (traveling weekends to go to tournaments), studying for the SATs in October, and trying to do the best he can in school right now, plus he has a part-time job.
Does he have time to get very involved in the recruiting process? No, not really. He has sent out emails and dvd packages to about 2 dozen schools and has talked to a couple of coaches.
I keep the spreadsheet, research schools, and give him the opportunity to review it and say whether we should send a package. I like to talk to the coaches as well, not because I'm a helicopter dad, but because I love the process. I have been the manager of his summer team for the last 5 years, so I try to be as impartial as I can be and I think I have a decent grasp of the game and the process (thanks in a big part to this website).
So, its a partnership. He does most of the work on the field and in the class, and I support that with research and info.
The next few months should be interesting...
We are looking at a ton of schools from Boston to Maryland. His grades/SATs are ok, not great. He is undecided in his major. There are literally over 100 schools that could fit the bill.
He is playing ball (traveling weekends to go to tournaments), studying for the SATs in October, and trying to do the best he can in school right now, plus he has a part-time job.
Does he have time to get very involved in the recruiting process? No, not really. He has sent out emails and dvd packages to about 2 dozen schools and has talked to a couple of coaches.
I keep the spreadsheet, research schools, and give him the opportunity to review it and say whether we should send a package. I like to talk to the coaches as well, not because I'm a helicopter dad, but because I love the process. I have been the manager of his summer team for the last 5 years, so I try to be as impartial as I can be and I think I have a decent grasp of the game and the process (thanks in a big part to this website).
So, its a partnership. He does most of the work on the field and in the class, and I support that with research and info.
The next few months should be interesting...
HR you are partially right. The one coach at a D1 JC in Iowa had been to the D1 WS 4 times in a row. He is an expert on pitching and travels all over the country lecturing on pitching. Several pro players came through his school. He has been their a long time and is still there. Never taked to my son or saw him in person.
That was totally my doing and my son as I said is not a country kid. He probably would have been a great choice if it was just about BB.
His coach was let go this year due to complaints from SRs who wrote bad exit letters about his management of the team etc. The one thing he was good at was finding good talent. His crop of recruits was excellent last year. He just couldn't run the team. No pitching coaches except 1st year. He destroyed players love of the game. He drove away the only good P coach because he wouldn't delegate authority. It really was a shame. He was great to my son who never turned on him even though he was frustrated. I told him to support him as long as he was the coach and not to join in on the bad mouthing. He was rewarded with a nice increase in his scholarship. At the exit meeting last year the coach asked him if he was coming back and he said yes. He told my son he had interviewed 6 guys and 5 were leaving. I felt for him but the writing was on the wall. I just wish he had figured it out before he got so deep into it.
All the rest of the coaches are still at their respective colleges. A couple have moved to other colleges and are still succesful..
That was totally my doing and my son as I said is not a country kid. He probably would have been a great choice if it was just about BB.
His coach was let go this year due to complaints from SRs who wrote bad exit letters about his management of the team etc. The one thing he was good at was finding good talent. His crop of recruits was excellent last year. He just couldn't run the team. No pitching coaches except 1st year. He destroyed players love of the game. He drove away the only good P coach because he wouldn't delegate authority. It really was a shame. He was great to my son who never turned on him even though he was frustrated. I told him to support him as long as he was the coach and not to join in on the bad mouthing. He was rewarded with a nice increase in his scholarship. At the exit meeting last year the coach asked him if he was coming back and he said yes. He told my son he had interviewed 6 guys and 5 were leaving. I felt for him but the writing was on the wall. I just wish he had figured it out before he got so deep into it.
All the rest of the coaches are still at their respective colleges. A couple have moved to other colleges and are still succesful..
L that is a strange view. I know D111 pitchers who are in the pros. Can't quite see the correlation between BB ability and parental guidance.
It would be interesting to see how you get that approach.
It would be interesting to see how you get that approach.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
HR you are partially right. QUOTE]
Well BBH, thanks for thinking I am partially right. Again, I can appreciate your individual success in placing your son through your process, from my partially correct point of view, it was uniquely successful and I would not want to put a player in that situation when trying to find a quality school.
I prefer not to specifically address your son's situation at his school, but would rather offer my opinion to address the original question in a more general view that could help others successfully maneuver through the recruiting process.
As you can see, others have been successful in helping their player organize the process, but many have the player communicate with the coach directly. Most coaches called the player directly on their cell phone or in the old days texted them directly....
In the area of BC and your friend, there may be some additional lab fees and other smaller fees but $10,000 short fall definitely was not a full ride as they would normally calculate everything tuition, room and board, normal fees, transportation, etc. Some parents tell me that their son got a full ride (which does not come easily or at all from just baseball money), but then they go on to say all they have to pay in for room and board and and and…….I just smile and say congratulations!
HR you are partially right. QUOTE]
Well BBH, thanks for thinking I am partially right. Again, I can appreciate your individual success in placing your son through your process, from my partially correct point of view, it was uniquely successful and I would not want to put a player in that situation when trying to find a quality school.
I prefer not to specifically address your son's situation at his school, but would rather offer my opinion to address the original question in a more general view that could help others successfully maneuver through the recruiting process.
As you can see, others have been successful in helping their player organize the process, but many have the player communicate with the coach directly. Most coaches called the player directly on their cell phone or in the old days texted them directly....
In the area of BC and your friend, there may be some additional lab fees and other smaller fees but $10,000 short fall definitely was not a full ride as they would normally calculate everything tuition, room and board, normal fees, transportation, etc. Some parents tell me that their son got a full ride (which does not come easily or at all from just baseball money), but then they go on to say all they have to pay in for room and board and and and…….I just smile and say congratulations!
On the correspondences our son sent to college coaches, he always put our home phone number and his cell phone number. He felt that (and experience proved him right) that the coaches would call HIS phone first. We never fielded calls from coaches on our home phone except in one instance (the BIG call, as a matter of fact) when the recruiting coach realized he had reached our son while he was driving on the 101 up the coast. The coach called our home phone and said he had "good news" but would wait until son was out of the car to call. IN retrospect, we did a lot of the legwork, behind the scenes. The coaches never really talked to us until after the process was pretty much finished. After that, the coach treated us just like family and we spoke often. It was great to know that our son had provided this entre for us to get to know a very nice gentlemanly coach!
I helped keep my kid organized, but he handled all of the communications.
The biggest mistake in direct communication with coaches is parents discussing their kid's talent. The coaches aren't interested in a parents' view. They know our views are biased, and its really a waste of breath and time.
Let your son handle the communications; it's a great maturing process for him.
Parents should be involved at the stage of (1) whether to accept an offer, and (2) the scholarship amounts, and to be honest, good coaches shouldn't be having those two discussions without parental involvement.
The biggest mistake in direct communication with coaches is parents discussing their kid's talent. The coaches aren't interested in a parents' view. They know our views are biased, and its really a waste of breath and time.
Let your son handle the communications; it's a great maturing process for him.
Parents should be involved at the stage of (1) whether to accept an offer, and (2) the scholarship amounts, and to be honest, good coaches shouldn't be having those two discussions without parental involvement.
I also agree that Boston U probably didn't give her a full ride. It just seems parents have to say their kid got a full ride. A 32 year veteran recruiter from Western Michigan U told me he had never seen one in 32 years. There were 8 other coaches there and he asked them if they had ever heard of a Full Ride in BB and they all said no. One said he heard a rumour that Jeter got one but not sure. These were some head coaches from some great colleges as far away as California.
My whole point is that there is no need to have your son talk to a college coach until you are getting serious. Everyone seems to think they have to man up when that is not the case. My son played BB all over the US and Basketball as far away as Vegas. He worked out just as hard for Basketball as he did for BB. Started early morning and when into the evening after school. I always told the coaches that he asked me to get in touch with them and that he was interested in their program. No problem at all. They loved the fact he was busy. The DVD showed him playing high level ball and he had top marks. If a coach wanted to speak to him they asked him to call on the cell when he was free. It was not required and it was mainly to see if he had true interest in their school. I happen to negotiate for a living and it is called delegation of tasks. I get the coach on side and then he can talk to them after viewing the DVD if he hadn't got one yet. My son even enrolled in a college and got his student number before they would make him an offer. He talked to the coach after the offer was amde. It was agreat school but the weather was too cold. It was early in the recruiting and they approached us. We had BB programs being sent from all over and messages expressing interest but it was mostly from cold weather colleges which my son wasn't interested in. The one I applied to was an Ivy so I was interested from an academic point of view.
My whole point is that there is no need to have your son talk to a college coach until you are getting serious. Everyone seems to think they have to man up when that is not the case. My son played BB all over the US and Basketball as far away as Vegas. He worked out just as hard for Basketball as he did for BB. Started early morning and when into the evening after school. I always told the coaches that he asked me to get in touch with them and that he was interested in their program. No problem at all. They loved the fact he was busy. The DVD showed him playing high level ball and he had top marks. If a coach wanted to speak to him they asked him to call on the cell when he was free. It was not required and it was mainly to see if he had true interest in their school. I happen to negotiate for a living and it is called delegation of tasks. I get the coach on side and then he can talk to them after viewing the DVD if he hadn't got one yet. My son even enrolled in a college and got his student number before they would make him an offer. He talked to the coach after the offer was amde. It was agreat school but the weather was too cold. It was early in the recruiting and they approached us. We had BB programs being sent from all over and messages expressing interest but it was mostly from cold weather colleges which my son wasn't interested in. The one I applied to was an Ivy so I was interested from an academic point of view.
Yup talking to a BB coach will put hair on his chest.
The less parental involement the better.
My son took all his official and all but 1 unofficial visit on his own. We only spoke to one coach. I still have not talked to his college coach.
We (I?) did the spreadsheet thing etc....In our (my?) case I don't think it was very helpful. My son talking to his JC coach was far more helpful then anything I did for him. I emailed a few people with questions about schools that he took into consideration. Ultimatly, my only input was that some schools were financially/academically off limits and
It was a good learning process for him as some coaches didn't take rejection very well, some coaches were just socially weird.....
btw the offer sheets my son got clearly spelled out all the costs and how much they would pay, leaving an estimated amount for us to pay. It's not in the coach's best interest to have confusion in this area.
My son took all his official and all but 1 unofficial visit on his own. We only spoke to one coach. I still have not talked to his college coach.
We (I?) did the spreadsheet thing etc....In our (my?) case I don't think it was very helpful. My son talking to his JC coach was far more helpful then anything I did for him. I emailed a few people with questions about schools that he took into consideration. Ultimatly, my only input was that some schools were financially/academically off limits and
It was a good learning process for him as some coaches didn't take rejection very well, some coaches were just socially weird.....
btw the offer sheets my son got clearly spelled out all the costs and how much they would pay, leaving an estimated amount for us to pay. It's not in the coach's best interest to have confusion in this area.
I have seen "full rides," but its not 100% athletic money. Usually, with a top student, some schools can mix half and half athletic and academic money to put together a very attractive package. I have seen real cases where both added up to 100%.
If you explore the financial aid website of the school, you often see that there is a formula of GPA/class rank and test scores that yield a stated amount of academic aid that is automatically granted. Many private schools use these formulas.
If you explore the financial aid website of the school, you often see that there is a formula of GPA/class rank and test scores that yield a stated amount of academic aid that is automatically granted. Many private schools use these formulas.
Louisiana Lightning
Forgive me. I dont understand your post at all.
What do you mean " Below average players (not even DIII material) "?.
What exactly/specifically does THAT mean?
Have you ever watched or seen a DIII game?
Have you ever seen their athletes?????
My son is an average player who didnt need heavy parental involvement nor did he receive
" marginal " options.
By the hair on his chinny chin chin, and alot of hard work, he had some pretty good ones.
quote:Great players and prospects don't need much parental involvement other than help in evaluating options.
Average players need heavy parental involvement just to organize data and review marginal options.
Below average players (not even DIII material) don't need any help. It is these players for whom heavy parental involvement is not too healthy.
Forgive me. I dont understand your post at all.
What do you mean " Below average players (not even DIII material) "?.
What exactly/specifically does THAT mean?
Have you ever watched or seen a DIII game?
Have you ever seen their athletes?????
My son is an average player who didnt need heavy parental involvement nor did he receive
" marginal " options.
By the hair on his chinny chin chin, and alot of hard work, he had some pretty good ones.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
HR it was from Boston U and they said there were costs that they hadn't anticipated. I think the term Full Ride is thrown around way too much. People think if they didn't get a full ride their athlete is not a great athlete.
Ok one more point, I was saying BC, Boston College and you indicated twice Boston U or University. BC is D1 and Boston University is D3, Boston University can not give athletic scholarships if that was what it was vs a academic/need based grant.
DIII is not below average. My son plays DIII. I was referring to players who don't even have DIII skills.
This is a difficult and complicated process for everyone, from the player getting calls and multiple offers to the player not getting calls. Each brings it's all set of issues and your player cannot do all of it on his own.
Our recruiting experience was very similar to that of justbaseballs and anyone else taking that similar route. From the beginning we told son how much we were willing to pay towards his education, that gave him a guideline regarding where his offers had to be. We did some of the paperwork, but he also had to take responsibility in the process and speaking with coaches, developing relationships was his job.
My son traveled all over the country that summer, also worked and churned out a 68 game schedule in baseball in a few short weeks. They would call here if they could not reach him by cell phone, a quick hello how are you and they left messages. Those coaches that wanted to talk specifically to us did so in the beginning of the summer to tell us how much they wanted son to play for them, one coach came to the house, most of them saw him play in person so we didn't have to "sell" him. The coaches that called without ever seeing him he said no thank you from the beginning. No way was he going to play for anyone based on recommendation or a video without them seeing him play in person and that was our rules as well as how he felt about the process. I feel that is a dangerous way to go and that is my opinion. Any coach that recruits without seeing his players actually play, be involved in team dynamics, extensive getting to know each other is not doing his program justice. Those coaches that are not able to see your son play should have plenty of people watching for him would be the only circumstance. First question asked by son was where have you seen me play (if he already didn't know). A perfect example was his call from UM, the new pitching coach had never seen him play, well sir, you live mighty close, come watch. He never did, son was not going to make up his mind when they asked not knowing who he was going to spend 90% of his time with. That may sound crazy, but that was very important to him. His mentors needed to be someone he was going to feel comfortable with and in the end, they got a yes. His future depended on those coaches. And that didn't just mean a pro future either but his happiness in the whole experience.
When it came down to business, that was a discussion between son and the coaches except at official visits and in the end Clemson raised their offer through us, twice, but we never negotiated anything for son or answered for him.
I find it very interesting that the 2 coaches that made an offer after a call or two no longer coaching baseball at those schools. They all ended with losing programs, lost their jobs, and I can understand why.
A coach spending hours on the phone with parents is trying to recruit the parent, not the player. JMO.
Our recruiting experience was very similar to that of justbaseballs and anyone else taking that similar route. From the beginning we told son how much we were willing to pay towards his education, that gave him a guideline regarding where his offers had to be. We did some of the paperwork, but he also had to take responsibility in the process and speaking with coaches, developing relationships was his job.
My son traveled all over the country that summer, also worked and churned out a 68 game schedule in baseball in a few short weeks. They would call here if they could not reach him by cell phone, a quick hello how are you and they left messages. Those coaches that wanted to talk specifically to us did so in the beginning of the summer to tell us how much they wanted son to play for them, one coach came to the house, most of them saw him play in person so we didn't have to "sell" him. The coaches that called without ever seeing him he said no thank you from the beginning. No way was he going to play for anyone based on recommendation or a video without them seeing him play in person and that was our rules as well as how he felt about the process. I feel that is a dangerous way to go and that is my opinion. Any coach that recruits without seeing his players actually play, be involved in team dynamics, extensive getting to know each other is not doing his program justice. Those coaches that are not able to see your son play should have plenty of people watching for him would be the only circumstance. First question asked by son was where have you seen me play (if he already didn't know). A perfect example was his call from UM, the new pitching coach had never seen him play, well sir, you live mighty close, come watch. He never did, son was not going to make up his mind when they asked not knowing who he was going to spend 90% of his time with. That may sound crazy, but that was very important to him. His mentors needed to be someone he was going to feel comfortable with and in the end, they got a yes. His future depended on those coaches. And that didn't just mean a pro future either but his happiness in the whole experience.
When it came down to business, that was a discussion between son and the coaches except at official visits and in the end Clemson raised their offer through us, twice, but we never negotiated anything for son or answered for him.
I find it very interesting that the 2 coaches that made an offer after a call or two no longer coaching baseball at those schools. They all ended with losing programs, lost their jobs, and I can understand why.
A coach spending hours on the phone with parents is trying to recruit the parent, not the player. JMO.
Right now we're in the soup with GoMo. 4thGen has the advantages of high academic achievement and good SAT scores. Yesterday he received 17 emails from coaching staffs that required my to do something. I don't communicate with the coaches much, if at all, but I try and help him with what I've learned about the process and do the leg work of sending out schedules, DVDs, setting up travel, record keeping and the like. He is busy keeping his grades up, working out, working as an intern 3 hours a day and playing. He really only has a small window of time to talk to coaches and those calls are to his cell phone. I told my son the other day that this was just like other marketing campaigns I'd worked on. He is the client deciding who we are marketing to and what results he wanted.
After confirming 4thGen's academic record, the next question is "why do you want to play here?"
After confirming 4thGen's academic record, the next question is "why do you want to play here?"
Correction. Boston University is an NCAA D1 school. It isn't in baseball since they dropped the program. When they had baseball I believe they played in the America East Conference. Softball is in the AEC.quote:Originally posted by Homerun04:quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
HR it was from Boston U and they said there were costs that they hadn't anticipated. I think the term Full Ride is thrown around way too much. People think if they didn't get a full ride their athlete is not a great athlete.
Ok one more point, I was saying BC, Boston College and you indicated twice Boston U or University. BC is D1 and Boston University is D3, Boston University can not give athletic scholarships if that was what it was vs a academic/need based grant.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:Correction. Boston University is an NCAA D1 school. It isn't in baseball since they dropped the program. When they had baseball I believe they played in the America East Conference. Softball is in the AEC.quote:Originally posted by Homerun04:quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
HR it was from Boston U and they said there were costs that they hadn't anticipated. I think the term Full Ride is thrown around way too much. People think if they didn't get a full ride their athlete is not a great athlete.
Ok one more point, I was saying BC, Boston College and you indicated twice Boston U or University. BC is D1 and Boston University is D3, Boston University can not give athletic scholarships if that was what it was vs a academic/need based grant.
Thanks! So noted...
If a parent is paying the EFC, otherwise known as the difference between cost of attendance and financial aid granted/applied, then they have a responsibility to be involved in that aspect.
I also suggest parents of recruits learn section 15 of the NCAA Bylaws.
I also suggest parents do roster analysis of interested programs.
Let the kid check on academic programs, campus, etc., and maybe plan a visit if possible. The environment(where he lives) is most important to the resident(the kid). Haggling over a few thousand bucks is a parental job.
I also suggest parents of recruits learn section 15 of the NCAA Bylaws.
I also suggest parents do roster analysis of interested programs.
Let the kid check on academic programs, campus, etc., and maybe plan a visit if possible. The environment(where he lives) is most important to the resident(the kid). Haggling over a few thousand bucks is a parental job.
I might be a bit old fashioned about this, but I think the offer should go to the player first with discussion to follow. I see no problem with discussing anything with the coach AFTER the offer comes in. I agree a parent has the right to enter into discussion as they will be paying the difference. I don't feel that a parent needs to get on the phone with a coach to ask what they are going to offer their son.
That is not advice I would pass on to anyone.
JMO.
That is not advice I would pass on to anyone.
JMO.
Well this is a breath of fresh air! Here I had been beating myself up about how involved I got in the organizational part of this whole thing, and it turns out many of the rest of us have done the same thing! My son has a really hard time with the calling the coaches part of this. He can talk all day when they call him. I think this is typical.
I agree with the other posters here who have said that there just aren't enough hours in the day - between practice, lifting, and academics - especially if you've got demanding teachers in an AP class.
One thing I think we all need to remember is that they need to be just goofy kids too, especially during that senior year. I know my son had an absolutely unforgettable senior year - between being captain of the push up crew, showing and selling a cow at the fair in FFA, going to all the dances, going to every athletic event he could (girls tennis, anyone?) - even the all school play!
He had such a great sr year, he hated to see it end. He has many many friends and memories from high school. Now he is making more friends and memories at JC as all those hs kids go their separate ways.
I feel for the family who thinks the kids can do it all on their own!
I agree with the other posters here who have said that there just aren't enough hours in the day - between practice, lifting, and academics - especially if you've got demanding teachers in an AP class.
One thing I think we all need to remember is that they need to be just goofy kids too, especially during that senior year. I know my son had an absolutely unforgettable senior year - between being captain of the push up crew, showing and selling a cow at the fair in FFA, going to all the dances, going to every athletic event he could (girls tennis, anyone?) - even the all school play!
He had such a great sr year, he hated to see it end. He has many many friends and memories from high school. Now he is making more friends and memories at JC as all those hs kids go their separate ways.
I feel for the family who thinks the kids can do it all on their own!
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
I don't feel that a parent needs to get on the phone with a coach to ask what they are going to offer their son.
That is not advice I would pass on to anyone.
JMO.
I agree as I never said that!!
HR she was a coxy on a rowing team.
L I was referring to the skill level. Many D111 players could play D1 and many are drafted so I don't get the logic. I have never been able to distinguish since many D111 players have been drafted.
L I was referring to the skill level. Many D111 players could play D1 and many are drafted so I don't get the logic. I have never been able to distinguish since many D111 players have been drafted.
TPM,
Your point is valid re a coach offering a kid when the parents aren't there. It isn't always a problem, nor always a bad practice. And a lot of times the initial "offer" is more of an inquiry about the seriousness of the players' interest, a prelude to a real offer. I certainly have no problem with that.
My comments were more addressed to avoiding embarrassing situations. What if a coach offers, a kid says "yes," and then the parents say "no." That's why, in most circumstances, a coach should probably wait to do the formal offer until the parents are there. The parents may raise issues the kid might not have considered, not the least of which is financial. Waiting for the parents to be there for the big questions -- the offer and the amount -- just avoids a potentially messy situation.
The coaches we dealt with invited us and our son to campus to make the formal offer in person.
But we did have some coaches who made offers directly to our son over the phone and we didn't object. We knew our son needed to handle it in order to continue maturing. We never forced ourselves into the dialogue, and we only responded to coaches when they asked us questions.
Last, we did not try and steer our son anywhere, we just made sure he was considering all the important factors that high school kids might overlook, and that at the end of the day, he was certain and excited about his choice. Parents can't make the kids decisions for them, but they should help their kids make a considered decision.
Your point is valid re a coach offering a kid when the parents aren't there. It isn't always a problem, nor always a bad practice. And a lot of times the initial "offer" is more of an inquiry about the seriousness of the players' interest, a prelude to a real offer. I certainly have no problem with that.
My comments were more addressed to avoiding embarrassing situations. What if a coach offers, a kid says "yes," and then the parents say "no." That's why, in most circumstances, a coach should probably wait to do the formal offer until the parents are there. The parents may raise issues the kid might not have considered, not the least of which is financial. Waiting for the parents to be there for the big questions -- the offer and the amount -- just avoids a potentially messy situation.
The coaches we dealt with invited us and our son to campus to make the formal offer in person.
But we did have some coaches who made offers directly to our son over the phone and we didn't object. We knew our son needed to handle it in order to continue maturing. We never forced ourselves into the dialogue, and we only responded to coaches when they asked us questions.
Last, we did not try and steer our son anywhere, we just made sure he was considering all the important factors that high school kids might overlook, and that at the end of the day, he was certain and excited about his choice. Parents can't make the kids decisions for them, but they should help their kids make a considered decision.