Parents - Check Yourself

 Great post! Great story; great message.  Congrats. Let me guess - you also couldn't fall asleep that night reliving the moment over and over.   Thanks for sharing....one question that came to mind, though, and not to get off topic from your intended message:  Did the coach make the right decision by walking the bases loaded in that situation?  I think at the HS level (and below) and with a kid who probably has overpowering stuff, but by the coaches own assessment lacking a little command, why walk the bases loaded to put that pressure on him.  Not only do you load the bases where another walk scores a run, you put the winning run on base.  It worked out, for sure.  But, I am not convinced it is a no brainer decision.  In college or pros, yes.  (FWIW, I know all the arguements in favor of walking him, so no need to lay that all out).

 

Great story.

 

I am not sure the coach had to use the words he could not "trust" your son but perhaps he wanted to hurt his feelings a bit to motivate him.  At 88 mph, I am not sure he has to show the knee-buckling curve ball all that much.  If the coach is not calling every pitch, encourage your son to get ahead in the count with his fastball.  Even with the success last night, it appears the young man may be struggling with his control a bit.  I am thinking out loud here, but with that kind of velocity, it seems like he could aim for more of the fat part of the plate to get his strike count up and that ought to in turn further increase his confidence.  Baseball is the easiest game in the world when you are confident.  It is almost impossible to play if your confidence is lacking.  It takes courage to play it when you are not at 100% confidence and your son is to be commended for that.

Thanks for sharing, proud mj 8 (you should be).  That was a fantastic read!

Great story.  I will share a very recent incident, last weekend, that covers the flip side.  JV player 1 is contacted by a fellow JV 2 kid to see if he needs ride to saturday practice, player 1 says he is not going because his mom said it was a waist of Low and behold player 1 doesn't go to saturday practice..now player 1, who is a regular starter, will probably not play another inning the lat 6-8 games of the season due to parent interference....sad

Kid is old enough as JV to talk w mom or if she won't listen go to coach and tell him he wants to come maybe coach can intervene on his behalf.  If there r family issues coach needs to know kid is trying and making effort if kid is blowing it off he doesn't deserve to play. 

I don't think this relates all. The kid is an idiot for not going to practice and should be benched. Mom didn't contact coach, she was giving her son bad advice. I have a hard time understanding parents who would encourage a kid not to be involved in team functions. You are right in that it's sad. 

"Trust" is a funny thing. I can trust a kid to come in a district game and close it out, but I can't trust him to start a district game? I now have gained trust to appoint same kid to be next district game starter? I personally feel the guy mixed trust and faith up. He didn't have faith in your son. He obviously trusted him enough to put him in during a bind. He may not have had faith that he would have pulled it out. I believe he has gained that faith now. GOOD JOB MJ JR!

Great Story! Great advice!

That's one of the great things about HSBW, that it can provide the better / safer platform for a parent to question things, and / or vent. Thus giving a parent, a cool down period, and chance to listen to thee sound voice of reasoning, given here. And avoid the risk of doing or saying something that you or your son, may live to regret. And the chance of your son missing out of life lessons, and golden opportunities to learn from adversity.

As for us, as parent's,  we never communicated in any way with a Coach's decision. Irregardless, of how we may have privately felt. And our 2013 would not have stood for it, any other way.
For, if there were any situations, he already understood that it was between himself and his Coach.
Many times, what may seem like a bone-headed decision by a Coach, to parents, there may actually be much more ulterior motives by a Coach's decision. And players can learn from these on many levels.
One such time at a Tournament,  son was a starter, not pitching,  but playing CF that day. Son, who is known for his speed and base stealing, didn't make his run to first, as fast as his Coach felt that he was capable of. He made it to 1st safely. Coach benched him the last 6 innings and extra innings too. We lost. Coach or son, never said a word to each other. Son stood by the dugout and cheered teammates on, and threw balls from the side. Afterwards, being last one's to leave, son went up to Coach, on entirely different matter about the time the next day, that Coach had asked son for his help on something. Discussed that respectfully and went to leave. Coach called son back. Explained why he benched son. It was a lesson. For the Coach himself, a starter, was questioned on the same kind of running efforts, while in Div. 1 College, and got benched for several weeks. Coach did not want that to happen to our son. And he alerted our son, that a player never knows who is watching...

As for missing a practice! Nope, not in this household, by any of our 3 sons. No excuses! That was made clear, whenever they made a commitment to anything. They made a commitment,  then they better be prepared to honor it. And on any rare occasion that they had to miss something, they knew that they, themselves would be making any necessary phone calls.

Good job mj8 jr.!

mj 8- Check your inbox..

BucsFan - yes it was VERY hard to sleep that night and I still jumped out of bed in the morning wearing a smile I couldn't remove. Jr. sure had a fun day at school the next day.

On subject of intentional walk to regain the force play with 1 out and 2 run lead, you're right and it was surprising he did that knowing his lack of trust in Jr. I agreed with move though because it provided a quick way to end the game by turning 2 a number of ways.

Cleveland Dad - actually Jr. has better command than he’s exhibited to begin this spring. Like a golfer that’s tweaked his swing, it can take a while to instill the habit. This past summer while working with his pitching coach he made some changes that increased velo and movement. He’s still working to re-capture previous command. Seemed like he had it figured out in the fall but regressed to begin this season for some reason.The motivation tactic you expressed also occurred to me. Another good reason for me to keep my trap shut.

 

Thank you both for your compliments of my story and to the rest of you who’ve appreciated it and expressed it, thank you as well.

 

Tonight Jr’s big night as they go for 4-0 to start district. I’m already nervous. It will be a packed house since we face a crosstown rival and it will be telecast by the local television network. Prayers are welcome

mj 8, your restraint is to be commended in the situation you faced.  Best of luck to your son in the game tonight!!  As the dad of a pitcher myself, I know it can be nerve wracking!!!  Hope it all goes well.  Let us know after the game.

Great story!  We always try to stay out of it, but sometimes it's sooo not easy.

 

Good luck tonight, your opponent's last two losses should be in your favour.  Let us know how it goes

For those that wanted a follow up to this story.

 

Jr. started the 4th district game and was pulled after 1 and 2/3 innings.

When pulled the score was 0-0. He had given up 1 hit and 3 walks. He had 3 K's.

The situation when Jr. was removed - runners at 1st and 3rd and 2 outs. R3 had advanced from 2nd on a wild pitch walk. That's how runners got to 1st and 3rd.

We were playing a team we should defeat. Not near the quality of team we faced when Jr. closed the previous Tuesday. Our reliever did a great job and got the win. 9-0 was the final.

Jr. was angry and embarrassed. I was livid. My thoughts to coach, "you put him in a critical pressure packed situation with no hope for recovery if it didn't go well the previous district game, but you can't handle 1 run to MAYBE score in the top of the 2nd inning against a much weaker team."

So I found myself struggling again to follow my own advice "check yourself". I so wanted to address this with HC. I didn't though.

 

5th district game comes around and our starter that went long the night Jr. successfully closed, gets rocked for 4 runs in the 1st inning. With 2 outs in the 1st, Jr. is brought in to relieve with very little warm up. He throws the balance of that inning and 3 more. Gave up a 3 run HR in the 3rd. Gets 7 K and gives up 5 walks and 2 hits.

We lost 9-2.

HC tells team post game, we are a team that has to win with 3 or 4 runs scored. We don't score enough runs. Pitching needs to be better.

So without realizing it he's told the team, you aren't good hitters therefore I'm going to add more pressure to pitchers.

 

We'll see how this turns out. I don't feel good about it. I'm still going to stay quiet though.

 

Jr's summer team and coaches are pros and he's always felt supported and believed in, thus he pitches great for them. Summer ball is how Jr. was seen and received his baseball scholarship anyway. It sure wasn't the HS HC's doing. 

Jr. will get back on track in the summer if it doesn't work out this spring. I'm positive of that. I have that much faith in Jr. and his summer team coaches.

 

Everything that you mentioned above is what coaches do, if someone can't get the job done, in comes the next guy. Your son has to learn to work under all different types of coaches. he is going to have good outings and bad ones as well.

 

This is how the game of baseball is.  If the pitchers can't do their job, then the hitters have to step up, if the hitters can't hit, then the pitchers have to step up.

This game is all about the pressure, very rarely does a pitcher get a far enough lead to feel comfortable.

If the player can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen and that goes for his/her parents as well.

 

Why in the world would you even CONSIDER speaking to the coach?

Maybe the coach saw something in your son he didn't like, it could be mechanics, or his demeanor. The coach played a hunch and the reliever did his job.He is right pitching needs to be a LOT better.  WTG coach!

 

 Pitchers will always have good and bad days. Sounds like your son needs to work on BB. Those can come back to get you in the end. A relievers job is to come in and find the strIke zone right away. I hate when boys don't get chance to warm up but that can happen sometimes and u make the best of it.

 Your son is a SR and needs to do all the talking. IMO parents need to be quiet unless it's an injury/health situation then it can be brought up w son there. Never talk to them about anything witout your  son present.

keep us posted as the yr progresses on how it's going esp w Summer team.

I agree with TPM.  mj8, your son gave up 8 walks in the last 5 innings he pitched.  THAT is what he needs to focus on.  It sounds like he has potentially good stuff since he had 10 Ks during that same stretch, but that is way too many walks.  Nothing good can come out of this.  And he is in college, there is absolutely NO reason for you to talk with the coach about anything baseball related.  Period.

 

My son had a tough year last year as a freshman.  He would go in, give up some runs on a few bloop hits, an error, then one hard hit double.  It went like that all year.  It was devastating for us to watch because he had never struggled that hard that long.  We never even considered talking to the coach or blaming him for taking son out.  What I had to do is look at what he needed to work on and help my son with some mechanical issues AND encourage him to keep his confidence.  Personally, I was grateful that the coach continued to give him chances.  At the end of the year, his team made it into the conference tournament.  We didn't even go because we thought there was no chance he would get in.  Turns out, to our surprise and his, he got to start an elimination game.  Pitched 6 2/3 innings giving up two runs and got the win.  It kind of saved his year.  

 

He worked hard this summer on a collegiate league team.  This year, he has the most relief innings on the team and has a 1.61 ERA.  A totally different season than last year!!  Part of that is because we were all honest with each other that he did not perform up to his standards and had some things to work on to get better.  My son and I both knew that he needed to get better.  We did not blame the coach for taking him out or not getting enough innings or anything else.  It was a total attitude all around of "get better and you will have more success and opportunities".  

 

I think you need to talk to your son about what he needs to do to cut down the walks.  That seems to be the biggest problem.  Take responsibility.  The coach doesn't have confidence in your son for a reason.  It is your son's job to figure that out.  Your job is to support him and help him where you can.  STAY AWAY FROM THE COACH.  Especially in this situation.  I guarantee if your son cuts down on the walks, he will be getting a lot more time on the bump.

 

Edit: I mentioned your son was in college.  Sorry, I went back and saw that he is a senior in HS.  My advice still applies and will especially apply when he goes to college next year.

I like your post a lot.  Sometimes it is so easy to blame everyone else.  Up until this year, my son struggled with control too.  Because of his lack of control, he would throw so many pitches that he wouldn't last more than 4 innings.  Thankfully, he worked hard all winter, and he has given up 3 walks in 10 2/3 innings, while striking out 18.

Nice numbers ryno.  That is the kind of things coaches look for.  Pitchers need to throw strikes.  Nothing gets a coach hotter than a bunch of walks.  Even if you don't have a ton of Ks, throw strikes and get outs.  No way to defend the walk.

Also mentioned that he was livid, at who?  The coach, his son?

Get your son to a pitching instructor!

Keep out of it!!!!

 

 

That's exactly the coach's philosophy at my son's D2 JuCo.  He knows that at that level he won't have overpowering pitchers (they average low to mid 80's tops) so its basically pitch-to-contact and keep it low in the zone to get the ground ball or pop up.  You don't have to strike out every batter and yes, walks are hard to defend. 

When a coach says things like, “We aren’t a team that lights up the scoreboard …..”

“I can’t trust you to ……” “you are not a good ……”

 You’ll unknowingly plant seeds of negativity and self-doubt.

Most good coaches with winning reputations don't use this form of motivation.

 

A poem, author unknown, hangs in Arnold Palmer’s office and it’s called

“Whether You Think You Can Or You Can’t You’re Probably Right”

A passage in it reads –

If you think you’ll lose, you’ve lost; For out in the world you’ll find success begins with a fellow’s will.

It’s all in the state of mind. If you think you are outclassed, you are;

You’ve got to think high to rise; you’ve got to be sure of yourself before you can ever win a prize.

Life’s battles don’t always go to the stronger or faster man, but sooner or later the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

 

The best course for motivating players, is using positivity. Talk about what they do well and not what they don't. Work hard in practice to turn a weakness into a strength.

 

Jr. will get back on track, might not be until the summer though. It will have to come from within him with help from his summer pitching coach, because his HS HC doesn't recognize how to cultivate confidence in his players. Big reason the team presses at the plate.

 

The point of this thread seems lost by some and you are preaching to the choir.

I'm revealing my inner-thoughts about a frustrating situation and how I'm handling it. 

 

Sometimes parents want to lash out at the HC for a number of reasons, but it doesn't help if you do. It certainly hurts future opportunities to get back on track. Just enjoy or endure the ride as best as you can.

 

This is my message.

 

 

mj8, not to be rude, and I appreciate you sharing your innermost thoughts on the subject, but if your son does not foster an inner confidence in himself and his abilities, he will never make it.  You cannot depend on other people to prop you up all the time.  Maybe your parents, but that's about it.

 

My son's college coach has over 600 wins at his school alone.  Almost 800 total as a head coach.  He is not an encouraging kind of guy.  He's better this year than last, but I don't think he sees his job as one to encourage players to feel good about themselves.  His job is to put the best 9 players on the field and win.  If you mess up, you're probably going to get cussed out.  If you don't perform, someone else will be in there in your place.  If you don't perform consistently, you won't be on the team next year.  There are hundreds of other players just dying to take that spot.

 

If you can't deal with that, you aren't ready for the next level.

 

I've shared my story about my son's tough freshman year here before.  This year, I told him I was proud of him for enduring last year and keeping his confidence up.  I said it must have been hard to do.  His response was that it wasn't that hard.  I think he believed in himself, regardless of the circumstances.  It certainly didn't come from the coach.

 

This is life though.  Most bosses will not be there to encourage you and prop you up.  They want you to get the job done.  If you don't, they will find someone who will.  It is a good life lesson.  Help your son to develop a confidence in himself so that no matter what anyone else says or does, he still believes he is the best and can get the job done.  He will need that attitude for the rest of his life, and definitely if he plans on playing college baseball and possibly beyond.

There is a difference between negativity and reality.  If you aren't a high powered offensive team, then pitching and defense will have to win games.  If you defense sucks, you better hit.  It's pretty simple.  If you walk too many batters, that's a problem. 

 

While I'm not a big touchy feely guy, a coach has to know is players and what motivates them.  Each one may be different.  Some are head cases and need condoling.  Some need a swift kick in the butt.  I, myself, was always motivated by being told I suck and can't do something.  My response was always "FU, I'll show you you sob."   

Motivation comes within.  Someone telling you that you suck is a great motivator.
Better get used to no one holding your hand if you want to play at the next level and how to deal with all types of personalities.
as a parent you can provide the motivation that works best for your son.

 I always found that the tougher the coach was, The more likely he was all about hard work. I have seen these mean old guys bend over backwards for a kid that would just work hard. If they thought you were giving it all than you were all right. But once you got labeled a jackass it was gonna be a tough year.

Actually my sons greatest motivator was realization that he did suck at times.

 

The most successful teams my son has ever played on are the ones who labeled themselves as "scrubs" and motivated themselves.  It had nothing to do with what the coach said or didn't say.

 

I don't think the point of this thread is lost on some, I understand what you are trying to get across. 

 

In a perfect world its wonderful to have everyone be polite to you and encourage you with great stuff but the best coaches in the game are the ones that let the players find their own motivation, and yes at times that may include a verbal lashing to a player and the team.

 

Funny story, I know of a  player that wanted to do things HIS way and completely ignored the improvements the coach was trying to make, plus he didn't take criticism that well. One day he came into the locker room and found notes pasted all over his locker. They weren't that supportive or nice. he wanted to come home, he was not happy and very angry at how he felt he was being treated.

2 years later he was the 4th pick of that years draft.

That coach knew exactly what he was doing when he pasted up those notes.

       
       


Wow! Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing those thoughts and input.