I have to disagree with you coach. Parents may have good intentions, but poor judgment turns those good intentions into something quite different than the intended results...I think the writer had it correct.
Parents can be agents for change, both good or bad...it's the bad judgment, in my opinion, that gets them into trouble.
You certainly wouldn't discourage well inended parents, who have demonstrated good judgment previously, from stepping forward and helping out a program would you?
I'll probably take a fair amount of flak for this post, but here's an alternative view of the situation.
We read this story and say, "what a bunch of jerks!" and "these parents have lost control!" But do any of us see ourselves or someone we know...just a little bit here?
It seems to me that one key difference here is that the school and then the district and then (to a lesser degree) the school board said, "No! We won't fire this coach." In the end they compromised.
But how many of us know of a situation at our local HS or the HS down the road a little ways where parents rose up and got the HS volleyball, basketball or baseball coach fired? Maybe they got the AD to do it or the Principal to do it...but the fairly quick result was dismissal or "resignation." Was it always justified? Probably sometimes, but not always. Often, the principal or district just wants the problem off their books...easiest solution. Occasionally at the private school, the big donor gets his way. And sometimes, in the cases I know a little bit about, its a lot of the same stuff as here.
There were off-season teams, maybe coached by one of the dads, where the kids play a lot more but suddenly don't in HS (come on, we can always find a "travel" team where our son plays a lot...right?...if not, we form our own...right?). Sometimes its a coach who doesn't "win enough." Or a coach who doesn't "teach enough." Maybe a coach who is "too strict, too mean."
Same things I read here...but they got louder because the Principal said "no" and the district said "no" and the school board said "no, not all the way at least...but we'll give in a little," and the lead parent wouldn't give up but the coach stuck it out (rare...we wouldn't have ever heard about it if this coach would have done what I would have and said, "the he!! with you all!").
We're closer than we think (or would like to believe)...or a friend is closer than we think...at least thats what I think. It doesn't make us wrong, but we know someone who is closer to this than we think.
We read this story and say, "what a bunch of jerks!" and "these parents have lost control!" But do any of us see ourselves or someone we know...just a little bit here?
It seems to me that one key difference here is that the school and then the district and then (to a lesser degree) the school board said, "No! We won't fire this coach." In the end they compromised.
But how many of us know of a situation at our local HS or the HS down the road a little ways where parents rose up and got the HS volleyball, basketball or baseball coach fired? Maybe they got the AD to do it or the Principal to do it...but the fairly quick result was dismissal or "resignation." Was it always justified? Probably sometimes, but not always. Often, the principal or district just wants the problem off their books...easiest solution. Occasionally at the private school, the big donor gets his way. And sometimes, in the cases I know a little bit about, its a lot of the same stuff as here.
There were off-season teams, maybe coached by one of the dads, where the kids play a lot more but suddenly don't in HS (come on, we can always find a "travel" team where our son plays a lot...right?...if not, we form our own...right?). Sometimes its a coach who doesn't "win enough." Or a coach who doesn't "teach enough." Maybe a coach who is "too strict, too mean."
Same things I read here...but they got louder because the Principal said "no" and the district said "no" and the school board said "no, not all the way at least...but we'll give in a little," and the lead parent wouldn't give up but the coach stuck it out (rare...we wouldn't have ever heard about it if this coach would have done what I would have and said, "the he!! with you all!").
We're closer than we think (or would like to believe)...or a friend is closer than we think...at least thats what I think. It doesn't make us wrong, but we know someone who is closer to this than we think.
justbaseball:
I agree with you completely. Sometimes, not often, the parents are correct.
It's really no different than in any other walk of life...doesn't matter what the job is, task is, or occupation is...you have your really good ones (definitely keepers), your good ones (definitely keepers), your average ones (they stay as well), your bad ones(definitely look for something better), and of course your really bad ones (definitely make a change).
The key, of course, is everyone coming to the table honestly and moving forward to meet the goals of the program...whatever they may be.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Was it always justified? Probably sometimes, but not always.
I agree with you completely. Sometimes, not often, the parents are correct.
It's really no different than in any other walk of life...doesn't matter what the job is, task is, or occupation is...you have your really good ones (definitely keepers), your good ones (definitely keepers), your average ones (they stay as well), your bad ones(definitely look for something better), and of course your really bad ones (definitely make a change).
The key, of course, is everyone coming to the table honestly and moving forward to meet the goals of the program...whatever they may be.
quote:Parents can be agents for change, both good or bad..
when you are on the end of the bad you are leary of future attempts
quote:Same things I read here...but they got louder because the Principal said "no" and the district said "no" and the school board said "no, not all the way at least...but we'll give in a little,"
The following is giving in a little?
Nibarger will not be allowed to choose her team. That will be done by a six-person "panel," which will include parent representatives and members of the community, as well as Nibarger and her assistant coaches.
And finally, Nibarger is required to have an "ombudsman" attend every practice to keep an eye on things. Nibarger calls the representative a babysitter. Janice Friesen, president of the Castro Valley school board, says the stipulations were actually meant to defuse the situation.
Let me say this as delicately as I can
The administration backed down big time. No guts.
That's why the baseball god's gave parent's LL.
To get all the Politic's, and back stabbing, must be the best, Most over powering Force on Earth, since Genghis Kahn.
So you can realize how Silly it is to want that much Control
over a Sporting event concerning are children.
"Parent's Beware"
At any sporting event's, Stay away from large crowd's of parent's. Nothing good ever come's of it.
Just another lost season of Parental Discontent.
You would be better off concentrating your effort's on doing what's right by your Child.
College camp's, Letter's, Visit's. Ect.
It does not matter what your Team's do.
It matter's what you Do.
What happen's when there Kid's go to College.
Talk about not having any control.
There head's are going to blow. LOL. EH
To get all the Politic's, and back stabbing, must be the best, Most over powering Force on Earth, since Genghis Kahn.
So you can realize how Silly it is to want that much Control
over a Sporting event concerning are children.
"Parent's Beware"
At any sporting event's, Stay away from large crowd's of parent's. Nothing good ever come's of it.
Just another lost season of Parental Discontent.
You would be better off concentrating your effort's on doing what's right by your Child.
College camp's, Letter's, Visit's. Ect.
It does not matter what your Team's do.
It matter's what you Do.
What happen's when there Kid's go to College.
Talk about not having any control.
There head's are going to blow. LOL. EH
quote:Originally posted by Will:
Let me say this as delicately as I can
The administration backed down big time. No guts.
I agree Will...could've picked my words much better. It wasn't the main point I was trying to make.
I know that for many coaches it's difficult to imagine that the coach could be wrong.
I have some personal experiences that would countervail the impression.
High school football coach; Remarks to assistant coach "he can punt but he's got a black face." in regards to a player and friend of mine who happens to be black.
Another high scool football coach decks player for argueing with him (respectfully)
High school baseball coach sends runner from third on a long fly ball with bases loaded and no outs;
Ball caught; double play
Dresses down the kid after the game and blames him at the post game meeting.
The whole team overheard him tell the kid to go.
No apology.
Chewing tobacco, drinking (NOT warter)
Not a list for cannonizing.
Well intentioned parents? At some point someones got to speak.
Rollerman
Will:
That makes perfect sense...I can understand a coach being hesitant to allow too much
interaction with parents if some of those parents at one time used their bad judgment and harmed the coach or the program.
This unfortunate situation happens in all walks of life also.
I've run into it in business...been burned by a customer and then I've been absolutely reluctant to deal with that type of individual ever again.
The not dealing with that type of customer ever again is not necessarily good or bad, but the getting burned in the first place was not good...no fun at all!
I understand your hesitancy coach.
quote:Originally posted by Will:
when you are on the end of the bad you are leary of future attempts
That makes perfect sense...I can understand a coach being hesitant to allow too much
interaction with parents if some of those parents at one time used their bad judgment and harmed the coach or the program.
This unfortunate situation happens in all walks of life also.
I've run into it in business...been burned by a customer and then I've been absolutely reluctant to deal with that type of individual ever again.
The not dealing with that type of customer ever again is not necessarily good or bad, but the getting burned in the first place was not good...no fun at all!
I understand your hesitancy coach.
And then they ASK " WHY CAN'T WE GET GOOD HS COACHES?"
duh !!!
duh !!!
Trhit
I have been out of it for 7 years.I still converse with coaches. the question is do I miss it. Yes and no however seeing and hearing what goes on the no wins.
I have been out of it for 7 years.I still converse with coaches. the question is do I miss it. Yes and no however seeing and hearing what goes on the no wins.
Will:
That is sad to hear...yet I understand.
That is sad to hear...yet I understand.
quote:And then they ASK " WHY CAN'T WE GET GOOD HS COACHES?"
I feel parents expect the same level of expertise as they find with select programs and when those expectations are not met they go for the first available head...the coach.
Another thought is that if you did a survey of basketball coaching complaints by parents, I would bet that many of them originate from the third or forth person off the bench. Other sports would fall with the same substitutional pecking order.
Will
I think I have mentioned it before on this site but after my son graduated HS the AD offered me the position as Head Baseball Coach---I said we are friends lets not go there and we are still friends to this day--we will be locking horns every week--- I am happy doing my thing where I drive the bus---IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT YOU CAN GET OFF AT THE NEXT CORNER !!!!---it is that simple but it won't work in the HS scenario
I think I have mentioned it before on this site but after my son graduated HS the AD offered me the position as Head Baseball Coach---I said we are friends lets not go there and we are still friends to this day--we will be locking horns every week--- I am happy doing my thing where I drive the bus---IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT YOU CAN GET OFF AT THE NEXT CORNER !!!!---it is that simple but it won't work in the HS scenario
Here is my 2 cents:
This is a reflection of one of the many things that has gone wrong in our country. Our youth can no longer be told what to do, when to do it, and that they are wrong. We actually expect coaches to more of a psychologist than a coach. We, as coaches, have to pay special attention to our kid's fragile psychological makeup, and to top that off, we have to be sure that "certian" players play. This provides a false sense of reality for the real world.
My son, a junior, recently left for another school because of this type of stuff. Several of the kids who play at his prvious school also play for a travel team I coach. At a recent game, as I was calling the pitches for my pitcher, the father of our catcher started telling his son not to call curves and changeups if I called them. He was yelling it loud so everyone could hear him - including our other players. Thankfully, his son did not listen to him. Afterward, we had a parent meeting to address this kind of stuff (we are having another one tomorrow night)and many of the parents indicated that because they pay for their son to play on this team they have a right to be involved with the decisions on the team.
As soon as I read this article I emailed it my son's current HS coach to encourage him to never give in to this kind of stuff. I may be in the minority, but I really don't care if the coach is wrong from time to time and acts like it is my son's fault. I want my son to learn to be tuff, and how deal with adversity. Heck, I am wrong from time to time, and don't want my parenting privledges to be stripped. Most coaches I know really do care about their kids. They are not perfect, and they will make mistakes. However, we have an epidemic on our hands with kids not being able to handle authority. Talk to just about any public school teacher about the authority they've been stripped of in the classroom. Most of it, sad to say, is due to "well meaning parents." If your kid cannot handle someone criticizing them, yelling at them, or telling them when they are wrong, then they are in for a rude awakening in the real world. We simply must teach our kids that they cannot run to mommy and daddy everytime for help. Of course, I would not want my kid to have to endure constant critique, but I doubt this is what this coach was doing.
This is a reflection of one of the many things that has gone wrong in our country. Our youth can no longer be told what to do, when to do it, and that they are wrong. We actually expect coaches to more of a psychologist than a coach. We, as coaches, have to pay special attention to our kid's fragile psychological makeup, and to top that off, we have to be sure that "certian" players play. This provides a false sense of reality for the real world.
My son, a junior, recently left for another school because of this type of stuff. Several of the kids who play at his prvious school also play for a travel team I coach. At a recent game, as I was calling the pitches for my pitcher, the father of our catcher started telling his son not to call curves and changeups if I called them. He was yelling it loud so everyone could hear him - including our other players. Thankfully, his son did not listen to him. Afterward, we had a parent meeting to address this kind of stuff (we are having another one tomorrow night)and many of the parents indicated that because they pay for their son to play on this team they have a right to be involved with the decisions on the team.
As soon as I read this article I emailed it my son's current HS coach to encourage him to never give in to this kind of stuff. I may be in the minority, but I really don't care if the coach is wrong from time to time and acts like it is my son's fault. I want my son to learn to be tuff, and how deal with adversity. Heck, I am wrong from time to time, and don't want my parenting privledges to be stripped. Most coaches I know really do care about their kids. They are not perfect, and they will make mistakes. However, we have an epidemic on our hands with kids not being able to handle authority. Talk to just about any public school teacher about the authority they've been stripped of in the classroom. Most of it, sad to say, is due to "well meaning parents." If your kid cannot handle someone criticizing them, yelling at them, or telling them when they are wrong, then they are in for a rude awakening in the real world. We simply must teach our kids that they cannot run to mommy and daddy everytime for help. Of course, I would not want my kid to have to endure constant critique, but I doubt this is what this coach was doing.
quote:I may be in the minority, but I really don't care if the coach is wrong from time to time and acts like it is my son's fault. I want my son to learn to be tuff, and how deal with adversity.
sherman - you are not in the minority imho.
I have always felt this way. The only way to learn how to be tough in life is to persevere when things are not going your way. Don't point fingers or try and lay the blame somewhere else, look in the mirror and do something about it. Sometimes learning to deal with someone who seems against you is a lesson in itself.
Look, there have been some posts in this thread saying there are some bad coaches out there and sometimes people need to do something about it. Ok... that does not seem at all to be the case here. This coach seems more than adequate to coach this team. Of course coaches make mistakes and so do all of us. We cannot legislate perfection however.
TR:
Finally! I just knew that you reminded me of someone...I've been wracking my brain for months now trying to figure it out...and voila!...it hits me like a bus...
You're Ralph Kramden.
The lovable Ralph of course!
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
I am happy doing my thing where I drive the bus---IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT YOU CAN GET OFF AT THE NEXT CORNER !!!!
Finally! I just knew that you reminded me of someone...I've been wracking my brain for months now trying to figure it out...and voila!...it hits me like a bus...
You're Ralph Kramden.
The lovable Ralph of course!
Enough already!!!!
Jerry (PG Staff) said it best.
Jerry (PG Staff) said it best.
You're referring to the PUKING...right?
quote:We, as coaches, have to pay special attention to our kid's fragile psychological makeup, and to top that off, we have to be sure that "certian" players play.
Maybe that is why some coaches just choose to do something else with their time.