Paul Byrd and HGH Report

lafmom - Byrd has admitted using prior to joining the Indians. He claims he was referred by his doctor to this "dentist" in Florida and he did not bother checking the credentials of the dentist nor did he question why he was not required to be examined by the dentist. This part of the explanation makes no sense either. Why would a legitimate doctor refer Byrd to anyone but someone the referring physician knew to be qualified to treat pituitary problems? If he referred Byrd to a dentist for a pituitary problem, that seems grounds for medical malpractice. I wonder if Byrd realizes he has thrown his original doctor under the bus by asserting he referred him to this dentist in Florida who has since had his license revoked. There is a house of cards here imho.

My son is a ball player. I understand we all do not want anyone to have an unfair advantage over our kids. And we all want our kids to know that their will be consequences for cheating and we dont ever want our kids to feel they have to cheat to compete. And we all the love the game and do not want to see the game tainted. We want to know that what we are watching is real and not something that has been enhanced by illegal or imoral means.

But. I have also been a person that trys to put the shoe on the other foot before I pass judgement on others. I am willing to wait for all the facts to come out before I throw anyone under the bus so to speak. What has been lost if we wait to pass judgement on another person? We all know how the media is. We all know how things can be distorted. And we all know with all this steroid talk today in baseball that it can get crazy really quick.

I for one will wait. If it is determined when all the facts come out that he cheated then I will be the first person to throw a stone right at his big head. If it is determined he did nothing wrong I will not have to worry about my stone because it will not have been thrown in the first place.

Some of you have kids in pro ball. What if this was your son they were talking about? Would you want others to wait untill the facts came out? I want the same thing for Paul Byrd I would want for my son or your son. Is that not too much to ask from anyone? JMHO

Coach May that's a great post. I have struggled at times with the herd mentality and our shared human tendency to rush to judgement. This country was built upon individual rights and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty is right there at the top.
Bonds was not given that right, as with many others discussed here. That doesn't make it OK to go after Byrd. If he's guilty then I too will pile on with the shame. I'll wait till then.

1) Byrd does have some explaining to do

2) All dentists should be routinley mis-trusted & investigated


3) did the SF Chronicle, Vegas, & Gambling benefit from the TIMING of that story

4) are the Sox a "preferred" WS match-up for the Rockies


5) if YES to #4 ... hmmm, is it significant that "Clarity Media", owners of the SF Chronicle
are based in . . . . DENVER

follow the $$$

I agree with Coach May. The media has been wrong in the past ala Duke LaCrosse, etc.

Here, the facts we are commenting on are Byrd's own statements and for that we have a right to voice our opinions. It seems to me what Byrd has proposed is hard to believe at best. He says he has a pituitary tumor that causes his normal production of HGH to be deficient. For this proposal, there seems to be some evidence backing Byrd up:

From the NY Times:

quote:

Dr. Gary I. Wadler, an associate professor of medicine at New York University and a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency, said if a pituitary gland was not functioning correctly, a deficiency of H.G.H. could occur in the body. Wadler said that deficiency could be demonstrated by an endocrinologist. Byrd said he worked with an endocrinologist.

“This case shows that there are some people that need the drugs for medical reasons,” Wadler said. “Human growth hormone was developed for people that have deficiency states. You can’t always say human growth hormone means illegitimate; there are legitimate uses. After all, athletes are subject to the same diseases we are subject to.”

Byrd can end this by releasing his medical records. Did his tumor cause HGH to not be produced correctly? Would the massive amounts he was taking over three years (1000 vials purchased) have been necessary even if his pituitary were completely malfunctioning?

More importantly, the Indians and MLB said they were unaware of his condition. Why did he stop his usage the same month that MLB banned the substance? Was he suddenly cured? MLB has a theraputic exemption for banned substances. Why did Byrd not apply for the exemption if he had such a grave medical condition and thus continue using the drug?

I am not stupid and neither are most people. As an Indians fan, nobody wants to see him come out on the right side of this more than me. His answers do not make sense to me and that does not even get to the issues of why several of his prescriptions were from a dentist. Byrd seems to be hanging his hat on the fact that he only took what was prescribed. That's great because from what I recall, Elvis Presley only took what was prescribed to him as well.

In order to believe Byrd's story, you have to believe that a negligent doctor referred him to a dentist for his serious pituitary gland problem. Secondly, you have to believe that Byrd was miraculously healed of this serious condition the same month that MLB banned the use of HGH. I am willing to give Byrd the benefit of the doubt of these two conditions but I have to be honest - it does not look good.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
1) Byrd does have some explaining to do

2) All dentists should be routinley mis-trusted & investigated


3) did the SF Chronicle, Vegas, & Gambling benefit from the TIMING of that story

4) are the Sox a "preferred" WS match-up for the Rockies


5) if YES to #4 ... hmmm, is it significant that "Clarity Media", owners of the SF Chronicle
are based in . . . . DENVER

follow the $$$

C'mon Bee. It was the Red Sox that sent your guys home to Cleveland, not the Chron. I suppose that if I were an Indians fan I too would wonder why the story wasn't squelched until after the playoffs. But you have to ask yourself, would YOU sit on a story like that? Or would you want to get paid for your work ASAP?

Given the timeline indicating his HGH use stopped around the time it was outlawed by MLB, are we concerned he was cheating or merely using an "MLB non banned substance" within the letter of the (MLB) law. If his story falls apart, then is he cheater, even though the juice was not banned?

MLB has denied that Byrd was given permission to take the stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
MLB has denied that Byrd was given permission to take the stuff.

Did Byrd say otherwise?

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
Given the timeline indicating his HGH use stopped around the time it was outlawed by MLB, are we concerned he was cheating or merely using an "MLB non banned substance" within the letter of the (MLB) law. If his story falls apart, then is he cheater, even though the juice was not banned?

Dad04 - these are great questions to ask. In my mind, Byrd cannot technically be called a cheater (in baseball terms since it was not outlawed) unless it can be shown that he obtained his prescriptions improperly. For several of his prescriptions however, the HGH was obtained improperly because Dentists cannot ethically treat these type of symptoms. Perhaps Byrd was improperly referred to the Dentist and he is telling the truth on that point. It still does not explain his miraculous recovery the same month the substances were banned however.

quote:

by spizzle: I suppose that if I were an Indians fan I too would wonder why the story wasn't squelched until after the playoffs. But you have to ask yourself, would YOU sit on a story like that?

you saying a story that has been several yrs in the making would lose value or credibility if not released after game 6??


Mike Seba of the Las Vegas Sports Consultants says last week ... (my caps & parenthasis)

“Some of the (sports) books do have a LOT OF LIABILITY on Colorado,”
(ie: they're squirming uncomfortably & will cold sweat if Rockies become favorite vs Tribe)

“The (sports) books REALLY want the Red Sox to win, I will say that!”

The oddsmaker goes on to say that - "if the Red Sox win the AL pennant, SOX would still be the FAVORITE over the Rockies."

"HOWEVER, if Cleveland wins, the ROCKIES would enter the World Series as a SLIGHT FAVORITE, even though the AL team will have home-field advantage."

hmmm??

(if anything happens to me, you'll know I was on to 'em)

BEE

Byrd didnt even pitch in the series so how can odds be involved or altered---where are you coming from?

Are you promoting the other HUGE SIN in college athletics---GAMBLING?

quote:

by TR: Byrd didnt even pitch in the series so how can odds be involved or altered---where are you coming from?

if you didn't have a tv, radio, or newspaper you may have been un-aware that the media attention/questions at MLB press conferences all weekend focued on HGH instead of ERA

quote:

by TR: Are you promoting the other HUGE SIN in college athletics---GAMBLING?

???????????????


I'll have Frank translate that nonsense statement & get back to ya with a reponse

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
Given the timeline indicating his HGH use stopped around the time it was outlawed by MLB, are we concerned he was cheating or merely using an "MLB non banned substance" within the letter of the (MLB) law. If his story falls apart, then is he cheater, even though the juice was not banned?

Dad04 - these are great questions to ask. In my mind, Byrd cannot technically be called a cheater (in baseball terms since it was not outlawed) unless it can be shown that he obtained his prescriptions improperly. For several of his prescriptions however, the HGH was obtained improperly because Dentists cannot ethically treat these type of symptoms. Perhaps Byrd was improperly referred to the Dentist and he is telling the truth on that point. It still does not explain his miraculous recovery the same month the substances were banned however.

David Segui also claimed he had a pituitary gland problem requiring HGH treatments. Adult onset pit problems are relatively rare, 35,000 cases annually. I am fearing an epidemic in baseball. Maybe the Center for Disease Control needs to check for pituitary problem "hot spots" at baseball parks. Statistically, less than 0.01167% of MLB players should be effected or one every 10 years. I'm skeptical at best.

BEE

Read your own posts---the word bookmaker pops up

As for what was happening in the media I was in a better place---with my team in 80 degree sunshine playing baseball in front of loads of scouts and in the midst of great competition out on LI--- dinner was oysters or clams, lobster or soft shell crab---more inmportant things in life than media divel


There is a simple solution to all this----give all the players two years to clean up their act---after the two year period you get caught you are gone---everthing before the two period will exist in the record books--but after that you are done and if you get caught and hold a record from previous years you get that record erased--you don't own it anymore

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
Given the timeline indicating his HGH use stopped around the time it was outlawed by MLB, are we concerned he was cheating or merely using an "MLB non banned substance" within the letter of the (MLB) law. If his story falls apart, then is he cheater, even though the juice was not banned?

Dad04 - these are great questions to ask. In my mind, Byrd cannot technically be called a cheater (in baseball terms since it was not outlawed) unless it can be shown that he obtained his prescriptions improperly. For several of his prescriptions however, the HGH was obtained improperly because Dentists cannot ethically treat these type of symptoms. Perhaps Byrd was improperly referred to the Dentist and he is telling the truth on that point. It still does not explain his miraculous recovery the same month the substances were banned however.

The FEDERAL LAW banning the use and/or prescription of HGH for any treatment other than a very specific, tiny list of ailments pre-dates this. In fact, that law has been on the books since 1988.

The only allowed uses of HGH in the US are:

* hormonal deficiency that causes short stature in children;
* long-term treatment of growth failure due to lack of exogenous GH secretion;
* long-term treatment of short stature associated with Turner syndrome;
* adult short bowel syndrome;
* adult deficiency due to rare pituitary tumors or their treatment;
* muscle-wasting disease associated with HIV/AIDS.

Once the growth plates have fused, use of hGH for growth failure or short stature is no longer approved.

So the only reason for an adult athlete to be taking hGH is for rare pituitary tumors, and it's been this way since 1988.

People seem to insist that it was/is Ok to take a drug that wasn't/isn't on MLB's banned list without regard to whether the act of taking it was legal, regardless of MLB's policy.

If Paul Byrd has a rare pituitary tumor, then he deserves our respect for playing through that condition. If he doesn't, then it sounds like his response to interviewers was very carefully coached by an attorney.

quote:

by TR: with my team in 80 degree sunshine playing baseball in front of loads of scouts and in the midst of great competition out on LI--- dinner was oysters or clams, lobster or soft shell crab---more inmportant things in life than media divel

agree, it doesn't get much better that that

and now ya got me thinking agout heading out and picking up some (relativley) fresh seafood for dinner

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Some of you have kids in pro ball. What if this was your son they were talking about? Would you want others to wait untill the facts came out? I want the same thing for Paul Byrd I would want for my son or your son. Is that not too much to ask from anyone?

Great point Coach and I'd always want you in my corner. However, as I've mentioned before, the reason why humans are at the top of the food chain is because we have the ability to form opinions and more important is we can live with our "mis-judgments". I know that I've been wrong once or twice in my life , but I will continue to form early unsubstantiated opinions as will almost all other human concerning baseball or any other topic with "unknown" answers.

In regard to the question "What if this was your son they were talking about?". If it was one of our sons and the allegations were substantiated, would we we look at our kid with the same venom as we would if it were a high profile player breaking records? . We tend to protect our heros aka the city of SF and those close to us.

Thanks, H3, that point always aggravates me. But it does get wearisome every time this comes up to post "MLB rules don't specifically prohibit ax murder either".

Perhaps it's part of Jock Worship --- still trying to give them that little bit of an excuse....

BEE

Once again you conveniently ignored the first part of the post regarding "bookmakers"

quote:

People seem to insist that it was/is Ok to take a drug that wasn't/isn't on MLB's banned list without regard to whether the act of taking it was legal, regardless of MLB's policy.

HHH - I agree with everything you said. Since I was quoted, I am hoping you were not implying that I insisted anything about it being ok. I stated the facts at the time during Byrd's admitted usage. He would not have been a cheater UNLESS the prescriptions were obtained improperly i.e., illegally, from unethical sources, etc. I am guessing that if he would have had a legitimate medical usage, he would have applied for the exemption. It is also possible that his condition was miraculously healed the same month that baseball banned the substance in 2005.

CD ... I never thought any thing like that ...

I just wanted to stir the pot a bit.

I have a son with Prader-Willi syndrome, one of the VERY few allowed medical syndromes that does allow for the use of hGH. As soon as his growth plates fused, he had to come off of the medication due to current legal reasons, even though everyone knew that continued use would have medical benefits for that particular syndrome.

So I was familiar with the law. Faced it before. As for athletes using it to obtain a competitive advantage while children can't get access to the medication unless they have REALLY good insurance ... well, needless to say, it iritates me a bit.

quote:

by TR: BEE - Once again you conveniently ignored the first part of the post regarding "bookmakers"

yummm, 2 doz littlenecks/little kings w/Canadian walleye fillets



oh yea, the the Vegas quote was to explain this call to spizzle ... follow the $$$

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
you saying a story that has been several yrs in the making would lose value or credibility if not released after game 6??

No Bee. I'm saying the same guys that broke the Bonds story released the Byrd story because they had enough meat to make a sandwich. If they don't do it somebody else does and they don't get paid. Do you honestly think the Vegas books were waiting for the Bonds story to break before they laid odds on when he breaks 755?

One blown call does not a series make. But wait, do you think Joel Skinner was in on this conspiracy too?

"HGH was only used for legitimate medical purposes. On this I am swearing to you."

Coach May's post has caused me to think a bit. There is another possibility for Byrd that may be more innocent of an explanation. Assuming Byrd's story is true that he was improperly referred to the Dentist and he did not question it, then the other main hole in his story is why did he discontinue his use when the substance was banned in 2005?

Perhaps Byrd attempted to get an exemption and he was flat out told they would not grant an exception for his particular condition or... Perhaps there is a document explaining the guidelines for an exemption, and Byrd's doctors and/or lawyers felt he did not qualify as such. Based on such information, Byrd perhaps discontinued his use rather than create any controversy that may unfavorably call attention to himself. Have not heard this explanation from him but he is free to use mine without charge if he needs one.

quote:

by spizzle: No Bee. I'm saying the same guys that broke the Bonds story released the Byrd story because they had enough meat to make a sandwich. If they don't do it somebody else does and they don't get paid

not polite to talk food at dinner time
- - -
anyway - oops wrong, who else had the story?? - IT WAS SF-C's STORY - - nobody else had it or pressured them, no Oct 21 deadline

you can google the story and STILL ONLY find follow-up interviews .. no secondary scoops

follow the $$$

there have been some REALLY ODD NFL endings recently too!

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
..... Have not heard this explanation from him but he is free to use mine without charge if he needs one.

Nahh ... I'd charge him, college is expensive. Don't deny yourself a chance at creating a new revenue stream.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
follow the $$$

Make sure and check back when you find it.

.
Dad04...

quote:

David Segui also claimed he had a pituitary gland problem requiring HGH treatments. Adult onset pit problems are relatively rare, 35,000 cases annually. I am fearing an epidemic in baseball. Maybe the Center for Disease Control needs to check for pituitary problem "hot spots" at baseball parks.

Good info...If on the small chance mine are drafted...will advise not to sign...not worth the obvious health risks...

44

With his lack of velocity, for me, it doesn't matter what Paul Byrd takes...he's a PITCHER.

quote:

Assuming Byrd's story is true that he was improperly referred to the Dentist and he did not question it, then the other main hole in his story is why did he discontinue his use when the substance was banned in 2005?

Using common sense, why would a person that supposedly has a rare pituitary condition be referred to a dentist in Florida for treatment?

Why would that person not personally visit the Dr. that he's referred to?

Why would a player with a health insurance plan from MLB order $25,000 worth of HGH on his personal credit card?

As far as I know, none of the teams he played for claim to have knowledge of his "rare pituitary condition". Since he didn't disclose that when he signed with them, would that be grounds for terminating his contract, and demanding their money back?

What's the guarantee that Byrd quit using HGH in 2005? He could've injected it today...MLB doesn't test for HGH.

Byrd is walking, talking proof that users of substances like this can avoid suspicion of use by taking smaller doses. Some players are obvious by their appearance that they're using..guys like Bonds, Canseco, and Brady Anderson come immediately to mind. By using smaller doses, players can achieve gains without building the mass associated with the larger doses. Who'd have thought Palmeiro was using steroids just by looking at him? No one. Same with Byrd.

The whole thing stinks. And no, he's not the only one. What'll be interesting is how much MLB'S Keystone Kops investigation turns up. The problem is apparently more widespread than people may have thought.

"I have never used steroids...Period."

Raphy's ex-wife is coming out with a new tell all book, in which she is reported to disclose details on her attempts to cork his bat.

quote:

Originally posted by lafmom:
FBM - I believe him too. He appears to be completely forthright. His medical records and the physician will be simple enough to verify. This rush to judgement right before game seven isn't fair to him, the Indians, or even the Red Sox. Let's play baseball!

"Two of Byrd's prescriptions for growth hormones were not written by a physician, according to a law enforcement source. Instead, the prescriptions were written by a Florida dentist, said the source, who asked not to be quoted by name because he was not authorized to comment. The dentist's license was suspended in 2003 for fraud and incompetence, state records show."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/200.../MNN6SSC8F.DTL&tsp=1

Byrd lies right into the camera - "Prescribed by doctor!"

And it's a disbarred DENTIST!!! Byrd the liar.

This whole thing is making me sick.

The lying and the deceit. And the lying. And the deceit.

Do they all think we are stupid or something?

I can't stand it.

Here...I fixed it for you, Dad04...

Right cheek or left?

quote:

Originally posted by Rico:

"Two of Byrd's prescriptions for growth hormones were not written by a physician, according to a law enforcement source. Instead, the prescriptions were written by a Florida dentist, said the source, who asked not to be quoted by name because he was not authorized to comment. The dentist's license was suspended in 2003 for fraud and incompetence, state records show."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/200.../MNN6SSC8F.DTL&tsp=1

Byrd lies right into the camera - "Prescribed by doctor!"

And it's a disbarred DENTIST!!! Byrd the liar.

Rico, This is really a key component of this story. Byrd had to know this guy was a dentist! Anyone with any common sense knows a dentist doesn't treat this kind of disorder. There are reasons he might have had to pay for the drugs out of his own pocket... but there's no reason he would have gotten a prescription that was legitimate for a pituitary disorder from a dentist. There's certainly some 'splaining to do.