Paul Byrd and HGH Report

Nice timing on the story. I am sure crazy George will annoounce his Yankee coach during the World Series also.

When all the names are released, they will just * the entire era because it is likely they all did it.

Baltimore Brady and 51 bombs with those newly found Popeye forearms was the reddest flag out there.

What a coinkydink that the story breaks the day before he's supposed to start game 7 of the ALCS.

I've never been into conspiricy theory, but it doesn't take a conspiricy to leak something from on up high in a manner timely enough to upset the mentality of a player who will likely play the greatest role in whether his team succeeds or fails. I think the proper term would be manipulation.

Imagine the stain on the heirarchy if it comes out later that Wakefield took something, and it didn't get leaked. What a time bomb.

Whose fingerprints do you think are all over this one?

Westbrook is the starting pitcher

Why is it that it seems like the only newspaper in the country that breaks all the stories regarding steroids is the San Francisco Chronicle?

If it's conspiracy theories you want, lets look into who owns the SF Chronicle. What business are they in that they get all this information "leaked" to their paper? What agendas do they have both politically or morally?

Back to Byrd. His book might be a very interesting read.

Here is a different story on FoxSports.com
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7358706?MSNHPHMA

quote:

In an exclusive interview with FOXSports.com, Byrd did not dispute a San Francisco Chronicle report stating that he received nearly $25,000 worth of HGH and syringes from a Florida anti-aging clinic that was targeted by law enforcement for illegally distributing performance-enhancing drugs.

Byrd said that three different doctors diagnosed him as suffering from adult growth-hormone deficiency. In spring training, he said, he was diagnosed with a tumor on his pituitary gland at the base of his brain, a condition that may have contributed to his deficiency, doctors told him.

Please read the rest of the article...perhaps this is a case of everything not being what it appears at face value.

He's lying. My cousin had the same thing and he wasn't prescribed $25,000 worth from the corrupt pharmacy in Florida. He's plain and simple a cheater and should be boo'd if he steps foot on the mound tonight.

quote:

Originally posted by CCKnights:
Why is it that it seems like the only newspaper in the country that breaks all the stories regarding steroids is the San Francisco Chronicle?

If it's conspiracy theories you want, lets look into who owns the SF Chronicle. What business are they in that they get all this information "leaked" to their paper? What agendas do they have both politically or morally?

Back to Byrd. His book might be a very interesting read.

how about:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2007/news/story?id=3072845
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21405615/

oh, he says he doesn't take it now....ah, Pit tumors just don't disappear, unless gamma knifed or surgically removed....he's lying.

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
ESPN is reporting an article from the SF Chronicle, that Paul Byrd was heavily into HGH in the early 2000's, when he resurrected his career.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2007/news/story?id=3072845

I hate to hear this, because everything I hear about him is that Byrd is a quality guy...but it illustrates the pressure players face to get to the Show and stay there. Byrd, of course, has never been a blow the hitters away pitcher. I almost shudder that the thought of the names that could come out next, especially in the Mitchell report.

This Mitchell report could very well blow the lid off. MLB is tarnished just like the 1919 Black Sox cheating scandal. And the Bonds bashers are to be condemned as their own fav teams will be found guilty too.

Isn't there a breach of a patient's privacy rights when this type of information is disclosed? It seems there may be a possibility that Byrd's use of HGH was legitimate. Why is this public information if Byrd's use hasn't been proven to be illegal?

Curious how a drug company giving illicit drugs to a sports star breached doc patient confidencialty if disclosed?

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Curious how a drug company giving illicit drugs to a sports star breached doc patient confidencialty

Hey, I don't know. Are you saying that the drug is not prescribable? I thought that there was a requirement to protect the confidentiality of those getting prescriptions. It seems that I now have to stand away from the person being serviced at the counter when I am queued at the pharmacy.

JT ...

quote:

Please read the rest of the article...perhaps this is a case of everything not being what it appears at face value.

Excellant point ... I did read the rest of the article and a lot of it makes sense to me. And I think it admirable that Byrd acknowledges his usage and addresses the issue directly instead of ignoring it or saying he didn't take anything. I believe him when he says that his usage was not for performance enhancement ... he clearly acknowledges the temptation to try it for that purpose and then states that he resisted the temptation ... I happen to believe him (FWIW)

Thanks, "dot", and I like the signature.

FBM - I believe him too. He appears to be completely forthright. His medical records and the physician will be simple enough to verify. This rush to judgement right before game seven isn't fair to him, the Indians, or even the Red Sox. Let's play baseball!

I believe him for the most part, and I have yet to pass judgement, but the thing that really sticks out is getting a script from a Dentist....

This story is troubling. Byrd seems to be hanging his hat on the fact he never took more than medically prescribed. I wonder how many doses one gets for $25,000? Hundreds if not thousands perhaps? Sure glad he did not exceed that amount

Prescribed by his Doctor. He ordered the HGH with his credit card and had them shipped in his name to the teams clubhouse. Does this sound like a guy that was trying to hide something? I thought in this country you were innocent untill proven guilty? Can we please wait untill the whole story comes out and all the facts are known before we convict him in the court of public opinion? Come on folks. Are we going to have nothing but a bunch of witch hunts going on? Ridiculous stuff all the way around imo!

At that time HGH was not prohibided by MLB, so legality or lieing it is not the point, the point is that most of baseball players were using some kind of help from chimicals or similar sustances.

Why are we all even involved in this crapola ??

Who cares !!

Because we need to understand that so many players, managers, trainners, executives, owners, and the commissioner were involved, and is stupid to pretend make 3 or 4 players to pay for the whole thing.

quote:

Why are we all even involved in this crapola ??

Who cares !!

Because it's trickling down into the College and High School levels

The article reports 2 of the perscriptions for hgh were written by a FLorida Dentist!!!! who's license has been suspended...
He spent $25,000 on the stuff. Seems odd when MLB has excellent medical and perscription insurance .... Why wouldn't insurance pay for it ???

Let all the "facts" come out first is all I am saying. Passing judgement before the "facts" are really known is unfair imo.

I understand Coach May what your saying, But it takes so long for the FACTS.
People have to make a Judgement??
JMHO
EH

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
...But it takes so long for the FACTS.
People have to make a Judgement??...

Yeah, I agree. Let's not bother with facts. Condemn the man.


NOT!

quote:

Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
Why are we all even involved in this crapola ??

Who cares !!

I CARE!!!

As the parent of a college player, it scares me to think of the college players who have heard about how the stuff DOES WORK, and would be willing to sacrifice their health, and eligibility, if caught by the NCAA, to use the steroids and HGH. Several years ago, the NCAA was considering adding baseball to the year-round random testing program, along with track and football, which are already tested. Of course, COST was the reason they did not. Perhaps it is time the NCAA revisits it.

I Care!!

As a mom of a minor league player I want him to have a fair chance to compete for his job!!!

quote:

Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
Why are we all even involved in this crapola ??

Who cares !!

As fans of baseball and parents/friends of baseball players, I think the majority here care.

quote:

Originally posted by lafmom:

quote:

Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
Why are we all even involved in this crapola ??

Who cares !!

As fans of baseball and parents/friends of baseball players, I think the majority here care.

I will add to my original post:

Why are we even involved? The drug testing scared the majority of pro players to get off the juice. I don't really care about who HISTORICALLY took this stuff and they are now getting busted. Thats yesterdays news. They will * the entire era, or at least it will be tainted in everyones minds.

The drug screening trickles down to all levels.

What message did all this send to the kids? Just ask your own.

JUST SAY NO

That sound familiar??

quote:

Yeah, I agree. Let's not bother with facts. Condemn the man.

I never condemned anybody.
It just takes so long for the Facts to come out.

Why??

I was hopeing it would be behind us by now.

But it's like a toothache that flair's up every couple month's.

Deal with it. Are endure the pain of it all.
JMO
EH

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Let all the "facts" come out first is all I am saying. Passing judgement before the "facts" are really known is unfair imo.

The facts are that there were plenty who are using and I am sure there are plenty that still are. Are we so naive to beleive there were just a few? Did it really scare anyone?

I care! I am with njbb, I want my son to be able to have a fair chance to compete for his job. OS8 and others will understand some day the pressure that is placed upon them.

Until the player's union allows for testing for HGH (though blood tests only) we will never know.

As MLB (and MiLB, for that matter) are coming down like a ton of feathers on this, I've got no problem with the media outing suspects.

'Just say no' isn't all that easy. You all know how strong the dream can be with your boys. We talk about 'exposure' here --- well, hitting the ball further and throwing the ball harder get you noticed. Being bigger gets you noticed. If nature hasn't provided these edges, there is 'better living through chemistry'.

With all the money parents are spending on equipment, camps, and travel teams, do you think there aren't any spending on HGH?

The first time my son was offered steroids, he was a freshman in hs. There has yet to be a level where he hasn't known of multiple players on PED's. And all along the way, testing has been minimal to nonexistent.

Just like nj, I want a level playing field for my son. Just like every other real fan of the game, I want a true contest.

And what I'd really like to see is a purge. You get caught, you're out. Fifty games, then on to instrux to make up for the lost time simply says 'we gotta do this kid, but hey --- we admire your commitment'.

quote:

by MCO: we gotta do this kid, but hey --- we admire your commitment'.

you sure don't sugar coat it well put

quote:

As MLB (and MiLB, for that matter) are coming down like a ton of feathers on this, I've got no problem with the media outing suspects.

I agree. I do believe the information is being nefariously leaked if you will to do the most possible harm to the sport. That said, here is some advice for Byrd. Open your medical records to the public if you have nothing to hide. Apparently, 25,000 will buy you 1,000 doses. 1000 doses over three years is exactly one dose per day. I don't know if we have any physicians as members but is anyone aware of treating pituitary issues in this manner? Why weren't the Indians informed of his pituitary problem before signing him as a free agent for multiple millions? Also interesting how Byrd's last purchase coincided with baseball's ban on the substance in 2005. Why stop taking it if there are legitimate health issues? I was not born yesterday and don't believe Byrd's story.

I don't want a witch hunt, I just want a change. The only way for the testing for HGH to happen is for the fans to demand clean players.

MAD= Mother Against Doping

I want to believe Byrd but there are also some disturbing issues to be put to rest such as the fact that the prescriptions came from questionable sources and that he didn't apply for an exemption. It wouldn't surprise me if players didn't even know the exemption existed but it does all need to be investigated.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
I want to believe Byrd but there are also some disturbing issues to be put to rest such as the fact that the prescriptions came from questionable sources and that he didn't apply for an exemption. It wouldn't surprise me if players didn't even know the exemption existed but it does all need to be investigated.

Supposedly the dentist prescribing twice later had his licence suspended. I wonder how he treated the expense on his taxes, medical or business?

.
Observations beyond Byrd...

- HGH Test....Correct me if I am wrong...My understanding is that there is testing but NO reliable test for HGH...part of the problem. "You can't do it...but we can't enforce it" I am not so sure that MLB doesn't fully appreciate the absurdity of this position. Makes them look like they care, keeps it available to players. You can be certian that players understand this as well. Win/Win.

- Parental Concerns...Agree 100%. Like CD, saw it in high school. Some parents and coaches even knew. All our sons are under immense performance, and competitive pressure. Thank God most don't give in. The scary thing is that it would be very easy for them to begin to believe that it is not optional, but necessary.

- Will for Change...There is no will to take action. There is no upside to MLB...I think by now we all agree that there was/is a problem....Fans still buy tickets...why fix it? By the way...remember that report...a couple years ago...what was it..Mitchell?..what ever happened to that?

- Fans...Let's get real. Fans are, and will always simply a revenue source to use and abuse...stars are traded, popular players are cut, franchises moved under the cover of darkness, payrolls are slashed, colors and uniforms are changed to increase sales..it was never about the fans it was always about the fans money, and the fans themselves have proven that they will still buy tickets, and watch the tube, no matter what.

- Possible outing/big blowup...Turns out when the Chinese were not busy puting lead in toys and sawdust/poision in our pet food...they were shipping us huge amounts of the fixin's for steroids. Last month the DEA busted the connection, which apparently had extremely detailed records of who and when. The DEA keeps sending out public teasers each week like this, "well, geeze, if some one would ask we have lots of high profile names connected to this activity. But geeze no one has asked us yet..." As observed, no will on the part of pro sports franchises....yet. They push and the DEA gets thousands of dealers to sing...and it all breaks loose. Could be wrong but this bears watching.

44
.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

As MLB (and MiLB, for that matter) are coming down like a ton of feathers on this, I've got no problem with the media outing suspects.

I agree. I do believe the information is being nefariously leaked if you will to do the most possible harm to the sport. That said, here is some advice for Byrd. Open your medical records to the public if you have nothing to hide. Apparently, 25,000 will buy you 1,000 doses. 1000 doses over three years is exactly one dose per day. I don't know if we have any physicians as members but is anyone aware of treating pituitary issues in this manner? Why weren't the Indians informed of his pituitary problem before signing him as a free agent for multiple millions? Also interesting how Byrd's last purchase coincided with baseball's ban on the substance in 2005. Why stop taking it if there are legitimate health issues? I was not born yesterday and don't believe Byrd's story.

No, CD. The treatment isn't matching what he's claiming. Also, if it was truly a dentist that prescribed the medication, there's a problem. There's not a dentist in this country that would treat a pituitary tumor or diagnosis. Also, we all know that a professional ball organization know just about everytime their players use the bathroom... so why wouldn't they know? Also, they would never allow him to be treated for a disorder such as this by a dentist. Byrd seemed so sincere, but things are not adding up unfortunately. As CaDad says, an investigation is obviously warranted.

I suspect we'll continue to hear stories fairly regularly as various players stories leak out.

lafmom - Byrd has admitted using prior to joining the Indians. He claims he was referred by his doctor to this "dentist" in Florida and he did not bother checking the credentials of the dentist nor did he question why he was not required to be examined by the dentist. This part of the explanation makes no sense either. Why would a legitimate doctor refer Byrd to anyone but someone the referring physician knew to be qualified to treat pituitary problems? If he referred Byrd to a dentist for a pituitary problem, that seems grounds for medical malpractice. I wonder if Byrd realizes he has thrown his original doctor under the bus by asserting he referred him to this dentist in Florida who has since had his license revoked. There is a house of cards here imho.

My son is a ball player. I understand we all do not want anyone to have an unfair advantage over our kids. And we all want our kids to know that their will be consequences for cheating and we dont ever want our kids to feel they have to cheat to compete. And we all the love the game and do not want to see the game tainted. We want to know that what we are watching is real and not something that has been enhanced by illegal or imoral means.

But. I have also been a person that trys to put the shoe on the other foot before I pass judgement on others. I am willing to wait for all the facts to come out before I throw anyone under the bus so to speak. What has been lost if we wait to pass judgement on another person? We all know how the media is. We all know how things can be distorted. And we all know with all this steroid talk today in baseball that it can get crazy really quick.

I for one will wait. If it is determined when all the facts come out that he cheated then I will be the first person to throw a stone right at his big head. If it is determined he did nothing wrong I will not have to worry about my stone because it will not have been thrown in the first place.

Some of you have kids in pro ball. What if this was your son they were talking about? Would you want others to wait untill the facts came out? I want the same thing for Paul Byrd I would want for my son or your son. Is that not too much to ask from anyone? JMHO

Coach May that's a great post. I have struggled at times with the herd mentality and our shared human tendency to rush to judgement. This country was built upon individual rights and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty is right there at the top.
Bonds was not given that right, as with many others discussed here. That doesn't make it OK to go after Byrd. If he's guilty then I too will pile on with the shame. I'll wait till then.

1) Byrd does have some explaining to do

2) All dentists should be routinley mis-trusted & investigated


3) did the SF Chronicle, Vegas, & Gambling benefit from the TIMING of that story

4) are the Sox a "preferred" WS match-up for the Rockies


5) if YES to #4 ... hmmm, is it significant that "Clarity Media", owners of the SF Chronicle
are based in . . . . DENVER

follow the $$$

I agree with Coach May. The media has been wrong in the past ala Duke LaCrosse, etc.

Here, the facts we are commenting on are Byrd's own statements and for that we have a right to voice our opinions. It seems to me what Byrd has proposed is hard to believe at best. He says he has a pituitary tumor that causes his normal production of HGH to be deficient. For this proposal, there seems to be some evidence backing Byrd up:

From the NY Times:

quote:

Dr. Gary I. Wadler, an associate professor of medicine at New York University and a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency, said if a pituitary gland was not functioning correctly, a deficiency of H.G.H. could occur in the body. Wadler said that deficiency could be demonstrated by an endocrinologist. Byrd said he worked with an endocrinologist.

“This case shows that there are some people that need the drugs for medical reasons,” Wadler said. “Human growth hormone was developed for people that have deficiency states. You can’t always say human growth hormone means illegitimate; there are legitimate uses. After all, athletes are subject to the same diseases we are subject to.”

Byrd can end this by releasing his medical records. Did his tumor cause HGH to not be produced correctly? Would the massive amounts he was taking over three years (1000 vials purchased) have been necessary even if his pituitary were completely malfunctioning?

More importantly, the Indians and MLB said they were unaware of his condition. Why did he stop his usage the same month that MLB banned the substance? Was he suddenly cured? MLB has a theraputic exemption for banned substances. Why did Byrd not apply for the exemption if he had such a grave medical condition and thus continue using the drug?

I am not stupid and neither are most people. As an Indians fan, nobody wants to see him come out on the right side of this more than me. His answers do not make sense to me and that does not even get to the issues of why several of his prescriptions were from a dentist. Byrd seems to be hanging his hat on the fact that he only took what was prescribed. That's great because from what I recall, Elvis Presley only took what was prescribed to him as well.

In order to believe Byrd's story, you have to believe that a negligent doctor referred him to a dentist for his serious pituitary gland problem. Secondly, you have to believe that Byrd was miraculously healed of this serious condition the same month that MLB banned the use of HGH. I am willing to give Byrd the benefit of the doubt of these two conditions but I have to be honest - it does not look good.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
1) Byrd does have some explaining to do

2) All dentists should be routinley mis-trusted & investigated


3) did the SF Chronicle, Vegas, & Gambling benefit from the TIMING of that story

4) are the Sox a "preferred" WS match-up for the Rockies


5) if YES to #4 ... hmmm, is it significant that "Clarity Media", owners of the SF Chronicle
are based in . . . . DENVER

follow the $$$

C'mon Bee. It was the Red Sox that sent your guys home to Cleveland, not the Chron. I suppose that if I were an Indians fan I too would wonder why the story wasn't squelched until after the playoffs. But you have to ask yourself, would YOU sit on a story like that? Or would you want to get paid for your work ASAP?

Given the timeline indicating his HGH use stopped around the time it was outlawed by MLB, are we concerned he was cheating or merely using an "MLB non banned substance" within the letter of the (MLB) law. If his story falls apart, then is he cheater, even though the juice was not banned?

MLB has denied that Byrd was given permission to take the stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
MLB has denied that Byrd was given permission to take the stuff.

Did Byrd say otherwise?

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
Given the timeline indicating his HGH use stopped around the time it was outlawed by MLB, are we concerned he was cheating or merely using an "MLB non banned substance" within the letter of the (MLB) law. If his story falls apart, then is he cheater, even though the juice was not banned?

Dad04 - these are great questions to ask. In my mind, Byrd cannot technically be called a cheater (in baseball terms since it was not outlawed) unless it can be shown that he obtained his prescriptions improperly. For several of his prescriptions however, the HGH was obtained improperly because Dentists cannot ethically treat these type of symptoms. Perhaps Byrd was improperly referred to the Dentist and he is telling the truth on that point. It still does not explain his miraculous recovery the same month the substances were banned however.

quote:

by spizzle: I suppose that if I were an Indians fan I too would wonder why the story wasn't squelched until after the playoffs. But you have to ask yourself, would YOU sit on a story like that?

you saying a story that has been several yrs in the making would lose value or credibility if not released after game 6??


Mike Seba of the Las Vegas Sports Consultants says last week ... (my caps & parenthasis)

“Some of the (sports) books do have a LOT OF LIABILITY on Colorado,”
(ie: they're squirming uncomfortably & will cold sweat if Rockies become favorite vs Tribe)

“The (sports) books REALLY want the Red Sox to win, I will say that!”

The oddsmaker goes on to say that - "if the Red Sox win the AL pennant, SOX would still be the FAVORITE over the Rockies."

"HOWEVER, if Cleveland wins, the ROCKIES would enter the World Series as a SLIGHT FAVORITE, even though the AL team will have home-field advantage."

hmmm??

(if anything happens to me, you'll know I was on to 'em)

BEE

Byrd didnt even pitch in the series so how can odds be involved or altered---where are you coming from?

Are you promoting the other HUGE SIN in college athletics---GAMBLING?

quote:

by TR: Byrd didnt even pitch in the series so how can odds be involved or altered---where are you coming from?

if you didn't have a tv, radio, or newspaper you may have been un-aware that the media attention/questions at MLB press conferences all weekend focued on HGH instead of ERA

quote:

by TR: Are you promoting the other HUGE SIN in college athletics---GAMBLING?

???????????????


I'll have Frank translate that nonsense statement & get back to ya with a reponse

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
Given the timeline indicating his HGH use stopped around the time it was outlawed by MLB, are we concerned he was cheating or merely using an "MLB non banned substance" within the letter of the (MLB) law. If his story falls apart, then is he cheater, even though the juice was not banned?

Dad04 - these are great questions to ask. In my mind, Byrd cannot technically be called a cheater (in baseball terms since it was not outlawed) unless it can be shown that he obtained his prescriptions improperly. For several of his prescriptions however, the HGH was obtained improperly because Dentists cannot ethically treat these type of symptoms. Perhaps Byrd was improperly referred to the Dentist and he is telling the truth on that point. It still does not explain his miraculous recovery the same month the substances were banned however.

David Segui also claimed he had a pituitary gland problem requiring HGH treatments. Adult onset pit problems are relatively rare, 35,000 cases annually. I am fearing an epidemic in baseball. Maybe the Center for Disease Control needs to check for pituitary problem "hot spots" at baseball parks. Statistically, less than 0.01167% of MLB players should be effected or one every 10 years. I'm skeptical at best.

BEE

Read your own posts---the word bookmaker pops up

As for what was happening in the media I was in a better place---with my team in 80 degree sunshine playing baseball in front of loads of scouts and in the midst of great competition out on LI--- dinner was oysters or clams, lobster or soft shell crab---more inmportant things in life than media divel


There is a simple solution to all this----give all the players two years to clean up their act---after the two year period you get caught you are gone---everthing before the two period will exist in the record books--but after that you are done and if you get caught and hold a record from previous years you get that record erased--you don't own it anymore

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
Given the timeline indicating his HGH use stopped around the time it was outlawed by MLB, are we concerned he was cheating or merely using an "MLB non banned substance" within the letter of the (MLB) law. If his story falls apart, then is he cheater, even though the juice was not banned?

Dad04 - these are great questions to ask. In my mind, Byrd cannot technically be called a cheater (in baseball terms since it was not outlawed) unless it can be shown that he obtained his prescriptions improperly. For several of his prescriptions however, the HGH was obtained improperly because Dentists cannot ethically treat these type of symptoms. Perhaps Byrd was improperly referred to the Dentist and he is telling the truth on that point. It still does not explain his miraculous recovery the same month the substances were banned however.

The FEDERAL LAW banning the use and/or prescription of HGH for any treatment other than a very specific, tiny list of ailments pre-dates this. In fact, that law has been on the books since 1988.

The only allowed uses of HGH in the US are:

* hormonal deficiency that causes short stature in children;
* long-term treatment of growth failure due to lack of exogenous GH secretion;
* long-term treatment of short stature associated with Turner syndrome;
* adult short bowel syndrome;
* adult deficiency due to rare pituitary tumors or their treatment;
* muscle-wasting disease associated with HIV/AIDS.

Once the growth plates have fused, use of hGH for growth failure or short stature is no longer approved.

So the only reason for an adult athlete to be taking hGH is for rare pituitary tumors, and it's been this way since 1988.

People seem to insist that it was/is Ok to take a drug that wasn't/isn't on MLB's banned list without regard to whether the act of taking it was legal, regardless of MLB's policy.

If Paul Byrd has a rare pituitary tumor, then he deserves our respect for playing through that condition. If he doesn't, then it sounds like his response to interviewers was very carefully coached by an attorney.

quote:

by TR: with my team in 80 degree sunshine playing baseball in front of loads of scouts and in the midst of great competition out on LI--- dinner was oysters or clams, lobster or soft shell crab---more inmportant things in life than media divel

agree, it doesn't get much better that that

and now ya got me thinking agout heading out and picking up some (relativley) fresh seafood for dinner

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Some of you have kids in pro ball. What if this was your son they were talking about? Would you want others to wait untill the facts came out? I want the same thing for Paul Byrd I would want for my son or your son. Is that not too much to ask from anyone?

Great point Coach and I'd always want you in my corner. However, as I've mentioned before, the reason why humans are at the top of the food chain is because we have the ability to form opinions and more important is we can live with our "mis-judgments". I know that I've been wrong once or twice in my life , but I will continue to form early unsubstantiated opinions as will almost all other human concerning baseball or any other topic with "unknown" answers.

In regard to the question "What if this was your son they were talking about?". If it was one of our sons and the allegations were substantiated, would we we look at our kid with the same venom as we would if it were a high profile player breaking records? . We tend to protect our heros aka the city of SF and those close to us.

Thanks, H3, that point always aggravates me. But it does get wearisome every time this comes up to post "MLB rules don't specifically prohibit ax murder either".

Perhaps it's part of Jock Worship --- still trying to give them that little bit of an excuse....

BEE

Once again you conveniently ignored the first part of the post regarding "bookmakers"

quote:

People seem to insist that it was/is Ok to take a drug that wasn't/isn't on MLB's banned list without regard to whether the act of taking it was legal, regardless of MLB's policy.

HHH - I agree with everything you said. Since I was quoted, I am hoping you were not implying that I insisted anything about it being ok. I stated the facts at the time during Byrd's admitted usage. He would not have been a cheater UNLESS the prescriptions were obtained improperly i.e., illegally, from unethical sources, etc. I am guessing that if he would have had a legitimate medical usage, he would have applied for the exemption. It is also possible that his condition was miraculously healed the same month that baseball banned the substance in 2005.

CD ... I never thought any thing like that ...

I just wanted to stir the pot a bit.

I have a son with Prader-Willi syndrome, one of the VERY few allowed medical syndromes that does allow for the use of hGH. As soon as his growth plates fused, he had to come off of the medication due to current legal reasons, even though everyone knew that continued use would have medical benefits for that particular syndrome.

So I was familiar with the law. Faced it before. As for athletes using it to obtain a competitive advantage while children can't get access to the medication unless they have REALLY good insurance ... well, needless to say, it iritates me a bit.

quote:

by TR: BEE - Once again you conveniently ignored the first part of the post regarding "bookmakers"

yummm, 2 doz littlenecks/little kings w/Canadian walleye fillets



oh yea, the the Vegas quote was to explain this call to spizzle ... follow the $$$

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
you saying a story that has been several yrs in the making would lose value or credibility if not released after game 6??

No Bee. I'm saying the same guys that broke the Bonds story released the Byrd story because they had enough meat to make a sandwich. If they don't do it somebody else does and they don't get paid. Do you honestly think the Vegas books were waiting for the Bonds story to break before they laid odds on when he breaks 755?

One blown call does not a series make. But wait, do you think Joel Skinner was in on this conspiracy too?

"HGH was only used for legitimate medical purposes. On this I am swearing to you."

Coach May's post has caused me to think a bit. There is another possibility for Byrd that may be more innocent of an explanation. Assuming Byrd's story is true that he was improperly referred to the Dentist and he did not question it, then the other main hole in his story is why did he discontinue his use when the substance was banned in 2005?

Perhaps Byrd attempted to get an exemption and he was flat out told they would not grant an exception for his particular condition or... Perhaps there is a document explaining the guidelines for an exemption, and Byrd's doctors and/or lawyers felt he did not qualify as such. Based on such information, Byrd perhaps discontinued his use rather than create any controversy that may unfavorably call attention to himself. Have not heard this explanation from him but he is free to use mine without charge if he needs one.

quote:

by spizzle: No Bee. I'm saying the same guys that broke the Bonds story released the Byrd story because they had enough meat to make a sandwich. If they don't do it somebody else does and they don't get paid

not polite to talk food at dinner time
- - -
anyway - oops wrong, who else had the story?? - IT WAS SF-C's STORY - - nobody else had it or pressured them, no Oct 21 deadline

you can google the story and STILL ONLY find follow-up interviews .. no secondary scoops

follow the $$$

there have been some REALLY ODD NFL endings recently too!

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
..... Have not heard this explanation from him but he is free to use mine without charge if he needs one.

Nahh ... I'd charge him, college is expensive. Don't deny yourself a chance at creating a new revenue stream.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
follow the $$$

Make sure and check back when you find it.

.
Dad04...

quote:

David Segui also claimed he had a pituitary gland problem requiring HGH treatments. Adult onset pit problems are relatively rare, 35,000 cases annually. I am fearing an epidemic in baseball. Maybe the Center for Disease Control needs to check for pituitary problem "hot spots" at baseball parks.

Good info...If on the small chance mine are drafted...will advise not to sign...not worth the obvious health risks...

44

With his lack of velocity, for me, it doesn't matter what Paul Byrd takes...he's a PITCHER.

quote:

Assuming Byrd's story is true that he was improperly referred to the Dentist and he did not question it, then the other main hole in his story is why did he discontinue his use when the substance was banned in 2005?

Using common sense, why would a person that supposedly has a rare pituitary condition be referred to a dentist in Florida for treatment?

Why would that person not personally visit the Dr. that he's referred to?

Why would a player with a health insurance plan from MLB order $25,000 worth of HGH on his personal credit card?

As far as I know, none of the teams he played for claim to have knowledge of his "rare pituitary condition". Since he didn't disclose that when he signed with them, would that be grounds for terminating his contract, and demanding their money back?

What's the guarantee that Byrd quit using HGH in 2005? He could've injected it today...MLB doesn't test for HGH.

Byrd is walking, talking proof that users of substances like this can avoid suspicion of use by taking smaller doses. Some players are obvious by their appearance that they're using..guys like Bonds, Canseco, and Brady Anderson come immediately to mind. By using smaller doses, players can achieve gains without building the mass associated with the larger doses. Who'd have thought Palmeiro was using steroids just by looking at him? No one. Same with Byrd.

The whole thing stinks. And no, he's not the only one. What'll be interesting is how much MLB'S Keystone Kops investigation turns up. The problem is apparently more widespread than people may have thought.

"I have never used steroids...Period."

Raphy's ex-wife is coming out with a new tell all book, in which she is reported to disclose details on her attempts to cork his bat.

quote:

Originally posted by lafmom:
FBM - I believe him too. He appears to be completely forthright. His medical records and the physician will be simple enough to verify. This rush to judgement right before game seven isn't fair to him, the Indians, or even the Red Sox. Let's play baseball!

"Two of Byrd's prescriptions for growth hormones were not written by a physician, according to a law enforcement source. Instead, the prescriptions were written by a Florida dentist, said the source, who asked not to be quoted by name because he was not authorized to comment. The dentist's license was suspended in 2003 for fraud and incompetence, state records show."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/200.../MNN6SSC8F.DTL&tsp=1

Byrd lies right into the camera - "Prescribed by doctor!"

And it's a disbarred DENTIST!!! Byrd the liar.

This whole thing is making me sick.

The lying and the deceit. And the lying. And the deceit.

Do they all think we are stupid or something?

I can't stand it.

Here...I fixed it for you, Dad04...

Right cheek or left?

quote:

Originally posted by Rico:

"Two of Byrd's prescriptions for growth hormones were not written by a physician, according to a law enforcement source. Instead, the prescriptions were written by a Florida dentist, said the source, who asked not to be quoted by name because he was not authorized to comment. The dentist's license was suspended in 2003 for fraud and incompetence, state records show."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/200.../MNN6SSC8F.DTL&tsp=1

Byrd lies right into the camera - "Prescribed by doctor!"

And it's a disbarred DENTIST!!! Byrd the liar.

Rico, This is really a key component of this story. Byrd had to know this guy was a dentist! Anyone with any common sense knows a dentist doesn't treat this kind of disorder. There are reasons he might have had to pay for the drugs out of his own pocket... but there's no reason he would have gotten a prescription that was legitimate for a pituitary disorder from a dentist. There's certainly some 'splaining to do.