Payback

I don't do that.  I can't speak for others.

However, I would like to add - those who have an interest in the game often do not see things as they are.

From your mouth to fans' ears. Amen.

I've never done that and I wouldnt work again with anyone I could confirm that did so......I have ZERO interest in which side wins any game I am assigned to....

piaa -- that's as it should be, and good. I am curious, though ... do you HEAR belligerent fans? Or do you totally block them out? I last umped when I was 17, and I'm 53. I heard the fans. That may have something to do with my theory about payback -- wich I'm sure is wrong. But either way, I HATE obnoxious fans who think because a fence separates them, they are free to say whatever they want to umps.

And when it's my own son's team's fans, I just gotta get away.

I have observed in my short experience as a HS dad (son is freshman on varsity) that these parents tend to be far less informed and silly than travel ball parents. And one more observation: A mob mentality takes over. One knucklehead screams BALK and 10 others parrott him -- without any knowledge of what they are screaming about.

If you ignore it all, God bless ya.

Any umpire that makes calls based on what the fans are saying has no business umpiring. I have seen this happen in very isolated cases and I slammed the door on that behavior quickly. Umpires have no business doing that. 

I don't care if the call is for me or against me as long as the call is correct. I don't care if it's a ball or a strike as long as it's the same both ways. 

Let me say that we lost a very close, important, district game a few days ago. It didn't sit well because late in the game, there was an obvious blown call, to lead off the inning, when the FU called their base runner safe at first. He was out by a step. This ended up shifting the momentum. Now, the reason I was even more disappointed was all game, the (younger) FU was carrying on open conversations with the other team's players when they were in the field. They were more of the "Hey buddy, how is older brother, older sister, mom and dad doing?" To me, there seemed to be an obvious subconscious bias towards the other team. I had an issue with that...

"Hear" and "hearing" are 2 separate things......many young umpires have what was called "rabbit ears"....that is hearing and taking offense to every negative comment made about them or the calls they have made...."hearing" and letting that affect you negatively only pulls you off your game....it hurts your concentration and your ability to call an effective game.....

Those umpires who cant get past this in their training will cite this as the reason they gave up umpiring......hassle from fans......you will not umpire long nor successfully if you do not get over "hearing" the fans.....

we train umpires to "hear" what goes on around them, but to confine themselves to the area that the rule book gives them jurisdiction over. (confines of the field). its why you will hear so much about getting trained here.......

If you make the right rule call, any negative partisan comments dont mean a thing....if you are in the right position to make a call, comments from people hundreds of feet away dont concern you......if you make a judgment call based on the best view you had of the play, within the most common 2 man system, negative comments dont carry any sting.......

Understanding that baseball is a passionate game, and some that watch it and have an interest in who wins, will put on to the umpires, a unfair responsiblity for the loss of thier team.....in reality as I posted above, most all of us have no interest at all who wins......  

let me give you some example from my experience...

Had a woman berate me from the stands for 2 innings because i called an out at 2nd without the player being tagged......(it was a force play..no tag needed)

Had a dad ask me why I wouldnt call the high pitch a strike for his son.....(um....it was high?)

Had a woman follow me to my car to yell at me that I had called her son out because I didnt like him...(I had to ask her which team her son played for, then what position he played since i had no idea who she was talking about)

I'll bet you all 3 of those went home thinking I had it in for them and "got even" , which couldnt be farther from the truth.....  

I did an American Legion double in a neighboring state. The visiting team accused us of being homer umpires which was funny because we had never seen either team and had to get instructions to the field. 

Main reasons I avoid becoming an umpire:

I would get ripped from the home team

I would get ripped from the visiting team

I would get ripped from the people in the stands

After a game, I always try and make it a point to tell the umpires they did a good job. They are human and makes mistakes all the same as the coaches and the players. I would much rather build a solid relationship with people than try and tear them apart.

I do not believe in payback because someone is probably going to get screwed over at a point when the game is on the line.  As much as I like to win I don't want help from an ump who messed up - let us do it.  If you mess up then let me come out and vent some (within reason) and we move on.  Don't help me out later in the game or better yet screw me over to "help" out the other team.  If we have a good relationship then you can admit you missed it.  I'm going to say nothing and go back to the dugout.

It happens but there is a ton of truth to the old phrase "two wrongs don't make a right".

Coach,

in this case, the Op is usign the word "payback" to describe an Umpire who would willfully make calls agains one team to get back at one team for verbal abuse he received....

Your example, would be more in line with a "makeup" call......where an umpire who missed a call would intentionally make another wrong call to even up his mistake.......an equally wrong thing to do....

No umpire should ever give a makeup call......, like Coach2709 says, if you blow it, take your lumps and move on.........When a foolish umpire gives a makeup call, all he has done is confirm to the coach that he is willing to alter calls based on bias.....

2 wrong calls never make 1 right one.....         

And then there is the 3rd type of intentionally incorrect call - the FY call.

I believe I've received a couple of those calls...

Really? I have seen them for catchers and batters, but not coaches.  Personally, I don't believe in them, but I admit to being amused when I see a PU call a ball (or several balls) on obvious strikes after a catcher turns around to complain about a pitch.

One incident I will never forget is when a batter drew a line about 8" inside after strike two was called on him.  Instead of ejecting him, the PU asked to see his bat.  He then proceeded to draw a corresponding line 8" outside, and then connected the lines by drawing a huge plate before handing the bat back to the batter.  The catcher got the message and set up about a foot outside.  You can guess the rest.

Yeah I just breezed through most of the posts and didn't get the purpose of the topic but it's all good because we are all on the same page.

In AZ we call that the nominal strike zone...

But seriously LOL by this thread. Thanks for all your posts.

That is great that umpire did that imo. Should teach that player to keep it shut. As far as my FY call, well, I would have to PM that situation. Let's just say an umpire held a grudge from the previous season. When he had us again, he immediately went into FY mode. I didn't know if I should have been angry or flattered? I admit I was both... I let him know it too!

Here's the thing...

FYC means something very specific to umpires. It means using a blatantly incorrect call to immediately manage a situation that would warrant an ejection without doing so, as in Dash's example. What you are referring to here is not an FYC, but exactly what you described--an umpire with a grudge.

And has no business in the game. We need to not carry stuff from game to game. A few can not and as such should not be umpiring. 

In all my years I have only worked with one cheater..........I was working 3 man mechanics in a playoff game. My regular partner and I are the base umpires working with an umpire who is clearly pinching one pitcher......the strike zone is wide for one and narrrow for another.....it did not take long for my partner to come to me in between innings to confirm what we both were seeing.

We called time and walked in and the conversation was short...he admitted he was holding a grudge against the coach. It was what I would call a "come to Jesus" meeting.... he was cheating and if he missed another pitch he would be explaining to the world why we base umpires just left the field, because we dont work with cheaters.... He never missed another pitch again that day and we never worked another game with him again.....

Maybe I misunderstood what umpires consider FY calls? I took it as "F" You calls. Something that was deliberate and thrown in the face of a player/coach simply to let them know "who was in charge". If that is the case, like I said, I have received a couple of those. IMO with hopes I would blow a fuse and he could eject me (ejection being the ultimate FY). Now, if I'm misunderstanding, can someone please let me know what FY means so I will be on the same page?

You have the correct meaning of FY, but can you be specific with respect to the FY calls you have received?  What were the circumstances leading up to the FY call (history), and what was the actual call?  That will help put it in perspective.

Guys, I know this thread has moved on but I continue to be amazed by coaches, players and parents that are definitive that calls are missed.  I'm set, 6-10" away from a call, 100% focused on what I'm doing and I'm not sure some times I got it right, just that I did everything possible to get it right. 

Beyond that, we are paid to be objective.  If an umpire does not have the emotional intelligence to keep he's feelings about a player, coach or fan from effecting his judgement, he needs to do something else.