Looking for clarification. I might have misunderstood some information at a presentation. If you receive a 25% athletic scholarship than you will not be eligible for Financial Aid. Can anyone confirm this or further explain?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
A student athlete may receive athletic aid as well as financial aid. Thankfully, b/c athletic aid is so scarce! Financial aid can be need-based or merit-based. Need-based aid can be loans (pay them back) or institutional grants (not paid back). Merit based is given to a student with high academic achievements in high school and really acts as a discount off of tuition. Any school (ie. the financial aid officers) should be more than happy to discuss how they 'stack' the aid packages. I always tell clients to call and ask their preferred school's financial aid office for help in figuring it all out even if they haven't yet applied. That's what they are paid for. Just keep in mind that supply/demand is the thing eg. Ivies don't give merit b/c, well, all their applicants are probably worthy of it but they do encourage everyone to fill out the financial aid forms and surprisingly, even income levels of $200G may get a little something in need-based aid. At the other end of the 'ranking' are schools that may discount tuition a bunch just to get you in the door.
- Use their Net Price Calculators and don't be afraid to ask questions.
real green posted:Looking for clarification. I might have misunderstood some information at a presentation. If you receive a 25% athletic scholarship than you will not be eligible for Financial Aid. Can anyone confirm this or further explain?
Was the presentation given by a D1 college?
Yes but it was in an example. He said they offered a kid $25k athletic money OR they could get $37k in needs based financial aid (student loan) but not both. Something about they come out of the same bucket of money as far as the school was concerned.
real green posted:Yes but it was in an example. He said they offered a kid $25k athletic money OR they could get $37k in needs based financial aid (student loan) but not both. Something about they come out of the same bucket of money as far as the school was concerned.
i wonder if he was talking about the kid needing to meet the requirement of ACT sum score of 105, 3.5 GPA, or top 10% of their class. If you don't meet that requirement any academic aid counts against the baseball total.
real green posted:Yes but it was in an example. He said they offered a kid $25k athletic money OR they could get $37k in needs based financial aid (student loan) but not both. Something about they come out of the same bucket of money as far as the school was concerned.
That sounds specific to the school. If it's the same bucket, they would rather not use up part of the 11.7 scholarships.
There are also D1 rules about non-athletic financial aid counting toward the 11.7. Those rules are too complicated for me, but can be found around these sections of the D1 Manual.
15.5.3.2 Equivalency Computations.
15.02.4.4 Exempted Institutional Financial Aid.
My daughter played and received both academic and athletic monies all four years of college.
Need-based aid is reduced by academic awards so it wouldn't surprise me if it is also reduced by athletic awards.
Certain academic standards have to be met to receive both academic and athletic money. I don't know what they are. They've changed in the past couple of years.
d-mac posted:real green posted:Yes but it was in an example. He said they offered a kid $25k athletic money OR they could get $37k in needs based financial aid (student loan) but not both. Something about they come out of the same bucket of money as far as the school was concerned.
i wonder if he was talking about the kid needing to meet the requirement of ACT sum score of 105, 3.5 GPA, or top 10% of their class. If you don't meet that requirement any academic aid counts against the baseball total.
This was my understanding as well. The example I saw about why this rule was put in place was so that a D1 school couldn't say well we only have 11.7 scholarships to give so what we will do for the 2.3 GPA pitcher throwing 92 is we will have the school offer him academic money. The NCAA then came out and said the kid must meet the ACT, GPA, Top of their class to receive true academic money, if the player doesn't qualify for one of those 3 categories it counts against the 11.7 scholarship money.
Pretty sure that if a student/athlete gets non-athletic money that ANY other student in the school would get, it is not counted against the 11.7 athletic money. But, if exceptions are made and a student/athlete gets academic money or needs based money that any normal student wouldn't get, that would count against the 11.7 athletic money. Hope that makes sense.
bballman posted:Pretty sure that if a student/athlete gets non-athletic money that ANY other student in the school would get, it is not counted against the 11.7 athletic money. But, if exceptions are made and a student/athlete gets academic money or needs based money that any normal student wouldn't get, that would count against the 11.7 athletic money. Hope that makes sense.
Yes. Need based aid doesn't require you to meet the academic qualifications because it is available to any student meeting the need requirements. The same goes for tuition waivers or automatic academic scholarships such as schools that offer an amount based strictly on qualifying academic numbers. There are a ton of exemptions to those numbers. For example, Stanford gives a full tuition scholarship to anyone from a household with income under $125,000. This does not fall under the 3.5/10%/105 sum rule.
The idea was to keep schools from keeping under the limit by saying, "hey, we only have 25% available under the 11.7 guideline, but I can get you a 50% scholarship from the band. Don't play an instrument? That's ok."
roothog66 posted:bballman posted:Pretty sure that if a student/athlete gets non-athletic money that ANY other student in the school would get, it is not counted against the 11.7 athletic money. But, if exceptions are made and a student/athlete gets academic money or needs based money that any normal student wouldn't get, that would count against the 11.7 athletic money. Hope that makes sense.
Yes. Need based aid doesn't require you to meet the academic qualifications because it is available to any student meeting the need requirements. The same goes for tuition waivers or automatic academic scholarships such as schools that offer an amount based strictly on qualifying academic numbers. There are a ton of exemptions to those numbers. For example, Stanford gives a full tuition scholarship to anyone from a household with income under $125,000. This does not fall under the 3.5/10%/105 sum rule.
The idea was to keep schools from keeping under the limit by saying, "hey, we only have 25% available under the 11.7 guideline, but I can get you a 50% scholarship from the band. Don't play an instrument? That's ok."
Again, refer to 15.02.4.4 and 15.5.3.2, but I also linked a more user-friendly summary of the rules below. In the case of the Stanford need-based tuition scholarship, I would image that those types of schools will offer the student non-athletic institutional aid instead of an athletic scholarship. Without the athletic scholarship component, the player is not considered a counter, and their need-based scholarship will not count toward the 11.7 total.
- Countable Aid
- Individual limit.
- Athletics aid up to the full grant-in-aid.
- Non-athletics aid up to cost of attendance.
- Team limit.
- Athletics aid counts toward the team limit.
- Once a counter, all institutional aid becomes countable (except exempted institutional aid). [emphasis added]
- A student-athlete (other than a recruited football or basketball student-athlete) does not become a counter based on receipt of institutional aid granted without regard to athletics ability.
- Individual limit.
- Exempted Aid
- Certain types of institutional aid may be exempt from counting toward the institutional (team) limit for a student athlete who is otherwise a counter.
- Examples include honorary academic awards, federal need-based grants (e.g., SEOG), state need-based grants, state merit-based grants, etc.
- Complete list is designated in Bylaw 15.02.4.3.
- Certain government grants may be exempt from counting toward a student-athlete’s cost of attendance.
- Examples include AmeriCorps, Post-9/11 G.I. Bill.
- Complete list is designated in Bylaw 15.02.4.3.
- Certain types of institutional aid may be exempt from counting toward the institutional (team) limit for a student athlete who is otherwise a counter.
Well this is quite the rabbit hole I have gone down. Hopefully we will be in a position/need to further explore next summer. It seems there is a lot "if/than" scenarios very dependent of the circumstances. I would guess once those circumstances are more defined it will be much easier to understand options.
Unfortunately or fortunately at this point it doesn't seem that cost analysis is a good factor to help narrow down target schools for our "marketing" campaign.
real green posted:Well this is quite the rabbit hole I have gone down. Hopefully we will be in a position/need to further explore next summer. It seems there is a lot "if/than" scenarios very dependent of the circumstances. I would guess once those circumstances are more defined it will be much easier to understand options.
Unfortunately or fortunately at this point it doesn't seem that cost analysis is a good factor to help narrow down target schools for our "marketing" campaign.
I agree, the bottom line will depend heavily on the institution. Imagine a school with 4 funded scholarships... they probably won't mind adding your 25% baseball scholarship and a 25% institutional aid grant. That would make you a 0.5 counter, and they have 7.7 to play with.
After working through two college searches with my kids, one of my strongest recommendation to people just starting the process is to ignore the cost side until the school tells you exactly how much it will cost. Until that point, you're just guessing without enough information to make a good decision.
MidAtlanticDad posted:real green posted:Well this is quite the rabbit hole I have gone down. Hopefully we will be in a position/need to further explore next summer. It seems there is a lot "if/than" scenarios very dependent of the circumstances. I would guess once those circumstances are more defined it will be much easier to understand options.
Unfortunately or fortunately at this point it doesn't seem that cost analysis is a good factor to help narrow down target schools for our "marketing" campaign.
I agree, the bottom line will depend heavily on the institution. Imagine a school with 4 funded scholarships... they probably won't mind adding your 25% baseball scholarship and a 25% institutional aid grant. That would make you a 0.5 counter, and they have 7.7 to play with.
After working through two college searches with my kids, one of my strongest recommendation to people just starting the process is to ignore the cost side until the school tells you exactly how much it will cost. Until that point, you're just guessing without enough information to make a good decision.
It makes sense to ignore the "counter" part and ignore the "%" part. That really doesn't matter. When you get to the point of comparing schools and their offers, it's the out of pocket part that matters. And what part of the total package is "at risk" in future years. IE, some academic aid is only eligible with a certain GPA in college. If your son doesn't hit that, your out of pocket goes up.
So when you receive your first "offer" how much detail of amount or percent is given?