Payment for select coaches

Technically, no one gets paid to coach Little League since it's an all volunteer organization.

At that level, regardless of "sponsorship", I haven't met a coach who wasn't spending money out of his own pocket to help his team.

By the way: What brings up this strange question?

He is talking about select team coaches, not LL Inc.

Last year we paid $200 a month and it included 3 uniforms, 2 tournaments a month, spring league and fall league and a trip to Cooperstown. I doubt if the two coaches made $50 apiece after you count all of the expenses involved. Our practice facility had a canal over the fence in left and they probably lost 15 balls per practice.

First of all I think that it is nobody's business what the coaches get paid not to mention that every program is different in what they do for the kids in terms of teaching, recruiting assistance, talking with college and pro scouts etc

quote:

Originally posted by Bob15:
Just curious how much are these coaches making each summer that they coach? Im not talking about the head of your particular select organization but just your normal ex pro player, current college player etc that gets paid to coach little league baseball. How much are these guys making after you eliminate travel cost and such. What say you?

When we had a small pre-high school youth travel team, not associated with a large elite travel team organization, we would pay the coach and his coaches (head coach received much more than his assts), a pre-determined amount for the season. We would also pay for all their travel cost, including hotels, flights, most meals, and other misc. travel expenses such as mileage.

If he had any out of pocket expenses, we would take care of it such as copies, binders, etc. We also agreed upon what equipment they thought he needed for the season; balls, fungos, bases, etc. as well as uniforms for him and his coaches.

It was not cheep, actually relatively expensive, since the head coach was very well respected and we wanted to compensate him. But the biggest expense was the travel for the coaches and players as we did a few out of state national tournaments, as well as, a lot of local tournaments.

PS all but 3 players are at D1 schools, so it was worth it!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
First of all I think is nobody's business what the coaches get paid not to mention that every program is different in what they do for the kids in terms of teaching, recruiting assistance, talking with college and pro scouts etc

What's the matter, tr, afraid your coaches will find out they're underpaid and ask for raises?
just kidding

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Last year we paid $200 a month and it included 3 uniforms, 2 tournaments a month, spring league and fall league and a trip to Cooperstown. I doubt if the two coaches made $50 apiece after you count all of the expenses involved. Our practice facility had a canal over the fence in left and they probably lost 15 balls per practice.

Each and every practice my kids 12 and under AAU coach used a wheelbarrow to build a mound on a softball field so the kids could practice. He dragged the field with a chain link fence roped to the bumper of his Plymouth Horizon with 200,000 miles on it. That guy was dedicated. I'm sure the guy was lucky to break even.

Here in Texas it can range from $500 to $1500 a month plus travel expenses. Depending on the team your with.

I never got a dime. In fact it cost me a heck of alot of money. I started coaching before my kids were born. We won alot of games and we had alot of fun. My last AAU team I coached is now the 08 guys in HS. Out of the 12 players on that team 9 have signed with college programs. All but 2 D-1. Two are still waiting on offers and one is a lacrosse player now. It never entered my mind to be paid a salary for coaching. Maybe it should have I dont know. I always saw my payment as being able to be a part of these kids lives. Being able to prepare them for HS baseball. And hoping I could help them achieve their dream of playing at the next level. I can tell you this they gave me a heck of alot more back in love and friendship than I ever gave them. I coached many teams at these levels during the summer and fall after my HS seasons ended. Two are now in pro ball. I always saw this as an opportunity to compete and be around the game. And an opportunity to show kids whats it really takes to play at the next level. Not as a way to make an extra buck. That just doesnt sit well with me. If I did it again I would probaly at least have my expenses paid. But I cant see making money off helping kids to the next level.

Some will argue that unless you pay these folks you cant find a quality coach. Maybe that is true. I dont know. But I would rather have a guy coaching my son for the love of the game and the desire to see his work pay off for others than a guy looking to get paid.JMHO

quote:

But I would rather have a guy coaching my son for the love of the game and the desire to see his work pay off for others than a guy looking to get paid.

For the love of the game. Now thats the real deal, IMHO!

TR - I think the original question was a reasonable one...so, I have no problem with it being asked. HAving said that, I agree with you that every program is different, so to try to compare-very hard to do.

I think most situations I know are like what Coach May describes where the coach reaches into his own pocket much more than parents realize. but, they do it because they love being with the boys and around baseball. Trust me, if you have a great coach....they are worth more than money. Problem is...many (most) of the truly great coaches wouldn't accept the $$$ if offered. Just my experience. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country.

I think most situations I know are like what Coach May describes where the coach reaches into his own pocket much more than parents realize. but, they do it because they love being with the boys and around baseball. Trust me, if you have a great coach....they are worth more than money. Problem is...many (most) of the truly great coaches wouldn't accept the $$$ if offered. Just my experience. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country.[/QUOTE]

It is different down here with many paid programs. I do not know what they are paid even with both of my boys on "paid" teams. But I have also never asked. Nothing wrong with the question though.

quote:

your particular select organization

who SELECTS the coach.

What is the difference between a select team a travel team a tournament team an all star team a showcase team an elite team. I am confused (that happens at my age

From my experience: Select Team / Travel Team is the same thing. It is usually the pre HS years. Its a group players selected either from baseball reputation or a combinaton of tryouts and reputation. They then travel and play other teams comprised of other select players. USSSA AAU etc. Then around here during the HS years they are called Showcase Teams. These teams are usually selected through tryouts and coached by former ML players / Scouts / High School Coaches. These teams play each other at all the college venues in the state and travel to other states to play other Showcase Teams. Plus almost all play the WWBA events at East Cobb and Jupiter. The top showcase teams in NC are the Dirtbags , South Charlotte Panthers , On Deck O's , Charlotte Heat , Carolina Cubs , NC Baseball Academy , Hurricances etc. Over the last few years more and more of these Showcase teams are popping up just like back in the day more and more Travel teams popped up. The talent level of some of these Showcase teams is starting to get dilluted with less talented players. The benefit to the players playing showcase is they play at college sites and most of the games are attended by college coaches. The top tier programs have many college coaches at every event they play. The benefit to the college coaches is they can go to one site and see several players that are capable of playing at the college level. Last year my sons entire roster signed D-1 all ACC SEC Big South or Conf USA. This year everyone has signed so far but two and they have offers. All but one D-1 with most being ACC and SEC.

The Beast,
$500 to 1500 a month? Holy cow! Is that year round?What age group is that? Do they offer scholly's? That would price most of the players I know right out of the market.
Dman Jr would have to go back to rec if that was the price in AZ.

Just, WOW.

The Beast,
$500 to 1500 a month? Holy cow! Is that year round?What age group is that? Do they offer scholly's? That would price most of the players I know right out of the market.
Dman Jr would have to go back to rec if that was the price in AZ.

Just, WOW.

Hustle never has a bad day.


$500.00 TO $1500.00 per summer season

Whew! Per season.

The showcase team my son played on was very reasonable imo. It is one of the top showcase teams in the nation. The sign up fee was 700.00 for summer and fall. The kids get cleats batbags several uniforms t-shirts shorts bat gloves etc. They played around 65 games in the summer and another 40 in the fall. The real cost comes in the food motel and travel expense for the parents. I learned over the years how to save alot of money. For all you youth travel team parents just remember the older they get the more it costs.

Wow. That's a lot less than the premier team "South Of The Border." Heck, that's significantly less than some of the third tier teams down here.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
The showcase team my son played on was very reasonable imo. It is one of the top showcase teams in the nation. The sign up fee was 700.00 for summer and fall. The kids get cleats batbags several uniforms t-shirts shorts bat gloves etc. They played around 65 games in the summer and another 40 in the fall. The real cost comes in the food motel and travel expense for the parents. I learned over the years how to save alot of money. For all you youth travel team parents just remember the older they get the more it costs.

Yes I agree its a heck of a deal. Impact also has three showcase events each year where players are invited to attend that do not play for Impact. Usually there are numerous college coaches in attendance. The players that play on Impacts teams attend free of charge. This past year those events were held at Old Dominion , Wake Forest and ECU.

you can check out their website if you want its
www.Impactbaseball.com the teams are called the Dirtbags.

Coach Andy Partin runs Impact Baseball. The important thing to me is if your son has the chance to play on a quality showcase team its a good way to get out there and be seen by college coaches. But look around first and get some advice from those that have already gone through the process. jmo

Coach May...I don't know you, but I think you are my hero
I'm sure your kids feel it is an honor to play for you!

Coach May,

I have been reading your posts for awhile now. After every post I am more and more impressed with your love for the game and the kids. You are at the top of my list for heros, along with others like you who my son has had the priveledge to play for. We have really been blessed.

At times I think it a valid question to ask and other instances it’s nobody's business. The only thing a parent needs to look at what they get for the money they spend. If YOU are satisfied with what YOU are getting for YOUR money --- then why ask? If the cost to join the team seems to be inflated then I would ask how your money is going to be spent. If the coach’s salary is a big part of the team fees I would question his motivation for putting together the team and probably move on. For the most part I think coaches spend more money (and more time) than any parents ever thought about spending.
Fungo

My question is directed to Coach May based on his post, but I'd be curious to see anyone's response. Are showcase/travel teams hurting the Legion programs in your area? Legion used to be premier baseball.

As my son approaches Legion age and I do research I'm noticing the better players in our area are now passing on Legion for showcase/travel teams. I watched a handful of Legion games. I wasn't impressed with the quality of play. I watched one game with the local reporter assigned to cover the game. He agreed the quality of Legion ball (in our area) is not what it used to be.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
The showcase team my son played on was very reasonable imo. It is one of the top showcase teams in the nation. The sign up fee was 700.00 for summer and fall. The kids get cleats batbags several uniforms t-shirts shorts bat gloves etc. They played around 65 games in the summer and another 40 in the fall. The real cost comes in the food motel and travel expense for the parents. I learned over the years how to save alot of money. For all you youth travel team parents just remember the older they get the more it costs.

Been there, done it with travel softball. Cost to be on the team: $700, travel costs (food, gas, lodging just for the player) $2,500 to 3,000.

When I started a 12U baseball team, I remember attempting to get parents in the mindset it isn't LL at $75 a season. One dad told me the cost of the travel team was one weekend of hockey.

Doughnutman, that is what the coach makes per month ($500 - $1500). Usually in the 9u - 14u they are paid from January to August. In the 15u - 18u they are paid a little more than $1500 a month because they only really coach the kids from June to the end of August. Usually a typical season (January - August) for 9u - 14u will range from $1000 -$1800 for each kid. Some teams do have scholarships available. For the 15u -18u it ranges from $1200 - $1800 for a season that being June thru August. Plus travel expenses. Those are just ballpark figures some teams are more and some are less.

RJM -
You are right with the comment on the costs of travel baseball vs. the cost of hockey. With the cost of ice rental running from $3-400/hour, the meter runs pretty quick in travel hockey. We are no longer involved in travel hockey....but my guess would be is that you can pay between $2500-$5000 per season for travel hockey these days....depending upon the level you play at. This would not include travel, hotels, meals, equipment, etc.

Your question: Are showcase teams hurting Legion programs.

Really I can only speak of NC. Legion has hurt legion in my opinion. First of all not every area of the state has legion programs. So many times players have to travel to another county to play legion. The way legion works is they have a base school. Then they have feeder schools that along with the base school make up the legion team. The problem is the base school runs the program. Many of these base schools keep their players in order to keep them together for the summer playing together. The players that tryout from the feeder schools are usually the ones cut. If I have a 2b that is all conference and he goes to the tryout and the base school's 2b is trying out my guy is in trouble. Happens all the time. Unless a kid is a sure fire stud and more than likely a pitcher his chances of going to the tryout and making the team over a base schools player are slim. Now the player cut has to go somewhere else and tryout again. In other words there seems to be alot of politics with legion teams.

Now another problem is the schedule. They play almost every night of the week and they play 9 inning games. These teams do not have enough quality pitching to play at a high level. Many times kids get over thrown. If you have 5 or 6 9 inning games in a week think about how many arms you really need? Guys end up throwing on one and two days rest. Guys get left on the hill way too long because they need them to burn some innings. Not a good situation at all. Believe it or not there is a huge difference in a 9 inning game and a 7 inning game.

Many Legion programs use college players on their rosters. This takes alot of opportunities away from HS players. Also seniors have just graduated from HS and are getting ready to go to college in a couple of months. Many do not want to play every night and want to work out to get ready for college. Add in the trips to the beach etc etc and many teams struggle to field a team night in and night out.

The college coaches. If I am a college coach and I am out scouting where do I want to spend my time? At a legion game on a Saturday watching maybe 1 or 2 potential prospects? Or at a showcase tourney where I can watch at least a couple of games with several potential prospects?

If Legion would take out all the politics , take the absolute best players from the area it would help itself alot. Hey if Im a college coach do I want to drive 3 hours to see one game? See just two teams? Knowing that there is a good chance that there might not be but one or two kids worth me seeing. Or do I want to go to a college campus and see several teams of top flight players competing against each other?

The better players are going to continue to play at the venues that attract the college coaches. And the college coaches are going to go to the venues that provide them the best bang for their buck and their time. Legion is hurting legion. The quality of the play in Legion would be at least 2 notches below the bottom tier showcase play in our state. Most legion teams are no better than a good hs team. If my son was a pitcher legion would never be an option. If he was a posistion player I would want to see alot better pitching on a consistent basis.

We do have three or four outstanding legion programs in our state. They usually dominate all the others. These are the areas where alot of the top players decide to play together over the summer. And most are from two or three HS programs. But the competition they face is very weak. Again I can only speak about NC. It may be alot different in other states. I hope it is.

Context disclaimer: I deleted a lot of Coach's test and saved what I believed to be the key points I'm reponding to. Please scroll up if you need to see his entire response.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
The way legion works is they have a base school. Then they have feeder schools that along with the base school make up the legion team. The problem is the base school runs the program. ..... In other words there seems to be alot of politics with legion teams.

Our Legion is independent of the high school although the school district is basically the boundaries. We have a lot of players in private and Catholic schools residing within the boudaries. We do have daddyball (every coach) in our Legion program.

quote:

Now another problem is the schedule. They play almost every night of the week and they play 9 inning games. These teams do not have enough quality pitching to play at a high level.

The local Legion team only plays twenty games plus playoffs. This would be fine if they practiced a lot. They don't. They only play three games a week. When I played we had a twenty-eight game season and twenty-plus non-league games against teams outside our zone. We had a fifteen player roster with 8-10 pitchers (four studs for the league games).

quote:

Many Legion programs use college players on their rosters. This takes alot of opportunities away from HS players.

I agree. Unless the team keeps a large roster it drives players off to travel teams. Some don't return to Legion to tryout again. A couple of high school starters played Connie Mack (equal to JV ball in our area). It was a step backwards. It couldn't have helped their game.

quote:

The college coaches. If I am a college coach and I am out scouting where do I want to spend my time? At a legion game on a Saturday watching maybe 1 or 2 potential prospects? Or at a showcase tourney where I can watch at least a couple of games with several potential prospects? ..... Or do I want to go to a college campus and see several teams of top flight players competing against each other? ..... The better players are going to continue to play at the venues that attract the college coaches. And the college coaches are going to go to the venues that provide them the best bang for their buck and their time.

Baseball has become the same as softball, basketball, s****r, lacrosse, tennis,etc.. in terms of exposure. Exposure tournaments are the new world.

quote:

We do have three or four outstanding legion programs in our state. They usually dominate all the others. These are the areas where alot of the top players decide to play together over the summer. And most are from two or three HS programs. But the competition they face is very weak.

Same here. We live in a tri-state area. Two of the states have teams that repeatedly win their states.

I was one of the heretics that pulled baseball players from the local programs and started a travel team based on my softball experience with my daughter. I'd love for my son to play Legion ball, but the closer I look at it the more flaws I see in today's model. LL, Babe Ruth ball and Legion were tremendous models when I played (back when dinosaurs ruled the earth). But, the world changes.

Legion ball shot itself in the foot when they allowed 19 year olds to play--not only does that chase the younger players away but the 19 year olds are college kids who are not that good or they would be in wood bat summer college leagues.

Coach May also makes a great point in terms of exposure--unless a college coach is going to look at one specific player it is not worth his while to attend a legion game when he can go to a showcase or watch a travel team with a multitude of prospects

Let me tell you where I see this all going in the future. Remember when everyone started playing AAU or USSA because they wanted to play with and against better players? Then every dad of a kid that did not get to play SS or pitch started his own Travel team. Then the competition and teams got watered down and many of the teams were no more than rec level competition. This is the same thing that is now happening with Showcase teams for HS players. More and more showcase teams are popping up because someones kid could not make the legit showcase team and now many dads etc are starting their own showcase teams. It is getting watered down now. The college coaches do not want to come to ECU for example to watch a bunch of daddy ball showcase teams play oneanther.

Ask Perfect Game how many teams tried to come to Jupiter. It used to be that there were only a few in each state. Now they are everywhere and growing by leaps and bounds. And dont talk about "Scout" teams either. I can start a team and call it the "Tamp Bay Scout Team". Im an associate scout and I can go out and get a bunch of kids and get in a tourney. And we might be just as horrible as the next team.

Here is what I predict is going to happen with Showcase baseball. You are going to see the elite type players start to consolidate on teams. Much like AAU when it started D-1 and D-2 teams for its tourneys. It is already starting to happen around here. Teams will no longer be able to just send in the check and get into these local showcase tourneys that all the college coaches come to. You will have to have some "Coaching and Player" credibility to get in and a track record of having top notch players. Much like what PG does in Jupiter when they exclude certain teams because of either poor performance at events or no track record of success.

If I am a college coach I do not want to see Bubba's Bombers play Jimmy's Jack Rabbits with no prospects on the rosters. It has gotten watered down and it will have to be retooled and its going to be. Less teams with more top players is what is going to emerge.

Showcase baseball works that is why it is so popular. It works for the college coaches and it works for the players. But as it continues to get watered down you will see it change and evlove.

speaking for Virginia, more specifically Northern Virginia, legion ball has almost dropped to the level of a competitive solid rec. ball team. On one hand I find it sad but on the other I agree w/ Coach May, they've brought it on themselves. In Virginia our set up is exactly how it is in NC. I've been told by many legion coaches it's getting more and more difficult to get quality players, since most of them are choosing other alternatives. I cannot speak for southern Virginia or southwestern Virginia, from what I've read it sounds like their programs are a bit more competitive.

I'll echo what you guys are seeing:
Legion made a REALLY bad call by letting 19 year olds in. One of their biggest stands is for sportsmanship and by letting collge players in with high school players... well, it messed it up.
2) The legion program can get political and 'cut' kids from certain schools for petty reasons (dont' like coach, don't want that high school to succeed, etc)
3) Legion calendar is antiquated. if you are on a good team and win state, your regional will overalp with college classes or college fall sports... causes real problems...
4) Legion makes it harder on the paperwork side of things to get everyone certified ... some programs just plain and simple don't want to mess with all that when there are simpler alternatives and still a lot of baseball to play

This has been an interesting thread to follow, even before it bifurcated into two seperate topics. I guess I'd like to address each question separately. First, many of the travel teams out here in California (and our very best summer teams out here are generally referred to as travel teams) have coaches that are compensated for their efforts. Not all programs, but more than a few. Most people know the ones where the coaches do it as a business and the ones who do is without regard to compensation. I don't think either way is superior, there is good instruction/coaching and quality baseball played by both type of organizations, as well as bad by both types. As for the program I run, the coaches are not compensated. Some of their out of pocket expenses are reimbursed, but not all the out of pockets by any means. We simply don't have the funds to do so. The guys who coach do it for the enjoyment of helping these kids move along, and it actually detracts from most of our earning ability in our real jobs.

As for the comparison between American Legion ball and travel ball, I couldn't be more in agreement with Coach May. Legion ball in northern CA is definitely lower caliber baseball. We've played in several large Sr. Legion tournaments over the past few summers, and the end result is that we've been banned from each of them after playing. We don't take any players who are 19, in fact many aren't even 18, but the legion programs have told me that they won't admit us any longer and they just want to keep them exclusive to legion teams. We did very well in these tournaments and found the competition less than we're used to playing, but we were still surprised to be told "don't come back". A central part of our philosophy has always been to "play up", but legion teams don't view it the same way out here. We are now continuing with Connie Mack league (the best 18u baseball out here) as well as high level tournaments and competing against jr. college summer teams. The kids get seen by plenty of college coaches and their rate of moving on to college programs is commensurate as a result.

i'm not sure if legion takes 19 yr olds any longer? but they should be playing in a wood bat league. legion offers a 16 yr old jr. legion, but not many teams in that program.
i believe legion rules have a base school and the feeder schools are the ones closest to the base school,with out a legion program. legion has nothing to do with high school other than enrolement numbers.teams are based on enrollment,with a cap of 3500 kids i think. in my town, which backs up to the ocean. with in a 25 mile semi circle(because of the ocean) there are 6 legion teams. as you may have guess the talent is watered down. you add in 9 inning games and you have a recipe for arm problems. my son's both threw more in the legion program than they did in hs,with the same number of games.
i believe kids at that age that want to play should have a place to play, but the talent isn't what it should be. we don't lose kids to travel ball much,there isn't anything close by for 16 -18 yr olds. but any town that has a legion and wants a team seems to get one.

a few thoughts re legion ...
most impressions of Legion as "High Level" baseball were formed 30+ yrs agro

25 yrs ago it was very high caliber baseball, but the face of amature baseball has changed.
(with legions 'unintended help')

legion was instrumental in causing travel baseball to flourish because their roster formation favored "base schools" and left alot of nearby good players "high & dry"

for the past 12 yrs or so most Oh legion teams have been last season's JV team, a (very) few rising srs, no graduated srs

as the better rising srs sought out quality travel teams for better exposure, ..
legion became essentially jv baseball

re allowing 19 yr olds
with travel teams growing wildly in our region legion rosters got small .. some posts who formerly had an extra 20+ players trying to get on their roster could no longer field a team.
legion was forced to allow 19 yr olds as a fix, tho probably will be temporary, as folks seem unhappy with the fix as well, not realizing that the alternative was to close the doors or merge with another national baseball association

I have let this thread sit a bit before returning to it.
Lets leave payment for coaches and legion out of this discussion as well as what it costs the player/players family and talk about the types of travel/select teams that are around today

01-- The team that does only showcases
02- The team that only does tournaments
03- the team that does does neither of the above but plays in leagues exclusively
04---The team that does both showcase and tournament events and does not play in a league
05-- The team that plays in both showcase and tournament events and also in league play
06-- the team also works with you and your son in terms of the next level and the efforts do not stop after the last fall game. Are the coaches available for discussions and phone calls ?

I bet many of you did not realize that there were this many variances among teams---well there are !

It also varies from age bracket to age bracket---varies in terms of intensity and attitude---I am talking here about the teams that are into getting their players great exposure and into college/pro draft because that is what I am most familiar with--

What we try to do with formatting our team, and many other teams have similar formats, is as follows:

01-- get the best coaches we can, both as baseball minds and gentlemen---we want to refine the skills of the players as the season goes along---the MENTAL ASPECT is key to us because we truly believ that this is missing in many HS players, regardless of their talent
02-- get the best players we can provided that they are the type of kid we want to be with us--"baggage" is a criteria that is quite important---sometimes the best talent is not the best kid for the team
03-- get the team playing in the best events, that we can, that work for the team makeup in terms of where they want to attend college and be seen---we go where not only Division I schools will attend but also Division II and III schools-- of interest--we saw Division III schools from our Northeast Region down in Jupiter this fall---
04-- strive to give the players the guidance they seek in terms of getting into college---be more than just a baseball team--we look at it as a family with new members every season

This is one formula? It works for you? Does it work for you? That is the question you need to answer. This to me is more important of the costs involved--once you find the team you want then you get into $$$ factor.

Yes it is a big decision and it also a difficult one but it is key for the player if he desires to move to the next level.

The more discussion will make the difficult decision a bit less difficult

Well said, TR.

06, you have a pm