I can't see other way as well, other than a complete clean up and a fresh start, regardless of how many years it would take. The crime spans an incredible 14-year period, if it takes another 14 years to clean up and restore its reputation, so be it. NCAA is about young men and women. In this case, the victims were kids that would grow to be young men/women. If NCAA does not impose the heaviest penalty available on its book, it will send a terrible message that all it cares is money and business is as usual; then what is the different between Penn State and NCAA where both institutions care more about what they will be losing than care about protecting the young men and women. Will future young men/women dare to report any serious crimes to NCAA knowing that NCAA would care more about the institution and not about the individual students? The Penn State janitors that witnessed the crimes did not report them; why you would ask. What kind of message do we want to send to our young men and women? That they don't matter if they don't play football.
The NCAA lost respect a long time ago. There are programs they just won't touch with major penalties. Did Lou Holtz go saintly when he coached Notre Dame? He left every other program on probation. Pete Carroll flagrantly broke some rules. USC got a one year bowl ban.quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:quote:Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:
But, it can’t go unpunished, otherwise the NCAA loses whatever respect it has left.
Perhaps we'll find out if the NCAA cares more about losing respect it doesn't have or money it does have.
I was listening to the radio today and the guy who was on was from happy valley, he said that everyone knew that something was going on with Sandusky, for years. Whispers, jokes, speculation went on for years. Yet no one did anything about it, and he himself said he feels guilty for what took place for not speaking up.
I agree with CD, this is creepy, Paterno was ceepy, I still don't understand how you can be coaching football and then be dead a few weeks later due to cancer complications, that is very,very creepy. I have to wonder what really happened.
I don't have any clue whether the NCAA sanctioning Penn State is the correct call. Penn State, should SANCTION themselves. It's time to begin the healing and only they can begin that process, if they care. Pay the victims, the ones you know about bigtime for their pain and suffering.
As for the ones that committed perjury, I hope they all go to jail for a very very long time.
I agree with CD, this is creepy, Paterno was ceepy, I still don't understand how you can be coaching football and then be dead a few weeks later due to cancer complications, that is very,very creepy. I have to wonder what really happened.
I don't have any clue whether the NCAA sanctioning Penn State is the correct call. Penn State, should SANCTION themselves. It's time to begin the healing and only they can begin that process, if they care. Pay the victims, the ones you know about bigtime for their pain and suffering.
As for the ones that committed perjury, I hope they all go to jail for a very very long time.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
I was listening to the radio today and the guy who was on was from happy valley, he said that everyone knew that something was going on with Sandusky, for years. Whispers, jokes, speculation went on for years. Yet no one did anything about it, and he himself said he feels guilty for what took place for not speaking up.
I agree with CD, this is creepy, Paterno was ceepy, I still don't understand how you can be coaching football and then be dead a few weeks later due to cancer complications, I still don't understand how you can be coaching football and then be dead a few weeks later due to cancer complications, that is very,very creepy. I have to wonder what really happened.
I don't have any clue whether the NCAA sanctioning Penn State is the correct call. Penn State, should SANCTION themselves. It's time to begin the healing and only they can begin that process, if they care. Pay the victims, the ones you know about bigtime for their pain and suffering.
As for the ones that committed perjury, I hope they all go to jail for a very very long time.
It's called being 85 yrs old and knowing you are guilty.
I think I am going to be sick. 
That report says all I need to hear.
That report says all I need to hear.
I sent this enail to Penn State Assistant Coach Jay Paterno on 11-11-2011
Dear Jay:
This thing just didn't make any sense to me... until now...please read on.
I have been so furious about the recently exposed events at PSU that mentally I've gone to the extreme of suggesting that maybe if you had been sodomized by a grown man when you were 10 years old...maybe THEN your father would understand the gravity of the matter and may have been able to summon the decency to, ANYTIME IN THE LAST 14+ YEARS, at least ask some questions when it became apparent to him what had occurred on his watch. It just didn't make sense that he could be so indifferent when something like this was happening on HIS hallowed campus grounds. Simply informing the athletic director is reserved for revealing that someone on staff has not payed their parking tickets or that someone was taking some cash from the till, not when your long time assistant coach Jerry Sandusky is ram-rodding 10 year old boys in the shower of your football complex!
It's not likely the incident that was reported to your dad in 2002 by a visibly shaken grad assistant was his first awareness of Uncle Jerry's "tendencies". It is apparent to me now that JoPa had already "addressed the issue" in 1999, when he accepted Uncle Jerry's "retirement". As early as 1998 is when questions, serious questions and charges -- should have blown the lid off of this. Now, I'm sure that questions were forthcoming and the result was that the "problem" was made to be gone....
The flaw with that thinking is that the "problem" as your dad saw it, was that Coach Sandusky was the foremost threat to replace him as head football coach...and in 1999, THAT "problem" was gone, for your father. For if it was ever about integrity or justice or the damaged children, then your father would have done more in 1998 or 2002 or any other time that he was aware of the goings on with his coach and either ignored it or wanted to know what defensive schemes they'd run that week or "kicked it upstairs" after JoPa "watered it down", first and we'll find out soon enough, whether he actually discouraged any type of reporting of these incidents. If so, your daddy's going to the big house (and I don't mean Michigan Stadium), Jay. Hopefully to get a big dose of "backwards hugs" from a giant cellmate whose a big Pitt fan. Maybe then he'll get it... you know, when he GETS IT!
Behind closed doors questions were certainly asked/answered and swept away, again without recourse in 2002 But no matter, because in 1999 Uncle Jerry magically "went away" and who knows what agreements were negotiated in the dark shadows. This isn't about 2002, it's about what JoPa knew well prior to that time, as well. JoPa will need to answer to a higher authority than the board of directors or NCAA on that one, I'm afraid.
Does anyone believe for a minute that there was not at least a behind closed doors "WTF" session between your dad and his longtime colleague/friend/assistant, probably the moment he was ever aware of even a scent of that kind of abhorrent criminal behavior present on the beloved PSU campus -- in 1998 or earlier. How should this be handled? Oh, it got handled all right... and that may prove to be the real smoking gun in this mess.
Hey, I know...dilute, dilute, dilute and maybe it goes away...even welcome the guy back on campus like it's old home week whenever he wants to come back...indefinitely...JUST SO LONG AS SANDUSKY NO LONGER PINED TO BECOME THE NEXT HEAD COACH AT PENN STATE, what could be the harm? That's all JoPa really cared about, anyway. Case closed, problem solved..JoPa style. That's as bad as Sandusky's behavior. Dad's going away. Tell us all about it on your next twitter!
When you were just a young coach getting started, Uncle Jerry was a hot commodity as head coach material for a long time during his heyday as Defensive Coordinator at Linebacker U. Absolutely was expected that he would take over the reins one day at Penn State (no doubt sooner than JoPa would have been ready for him to do so). The term "coach-in waiting" was coined for this guy long before the current trend became popular. I remember when Maryland offered the guy the head job and I'm sure he had other offers as well.
That's the bottom line here... Getting rid of Sandusky allowed the Paterno dynasty to live on...and on... and on. Hell, maybe a nimrod like you might even end up as the head man one day. Great plan for family succession!
Just think how wonderful it was. No alumni looking for a new coach after a down season or two, just business as usual. So now it all makes sense to me... when this very timely information became known to your father, Uncle Jerry abruptly (was) retired in 1999, which left "Pops" with a clear path to go for the all-time record for wins. Hell, with the heir apparent out of the way, dad could go on forever and take the whole stinking family of hangers-on and no talent bumblefish, with him!
Un-believable, but how else do you explain a man who so vehemently espoused honesty, integrity, going the extra mile, etc, simply rolling over when a transgression of this magnitude is front and center to him that could destroy the institution that he supposedly loves, not to mention the damage to the children -- and he does little or a nothing to stop it.
At any cost, he would go on and on and on as a football coach. He even had hoped to "will" you the head coaching position when he was through with it. I think we know that's not going to happen now.
Maybe if it had been YOU or one of your children who was violently taking the business end of Uncle Jerry, maybe then your father would have understood and he would have done something about it, but then, again, if it would have gotten in the way of the wins record, MAYBE NOT....
Maybe if your dad could have witnessed the vacant stare and hidden shame, shattered potential and pain of a son permanently scarred by this kind of unimaginable torment, maybe then he would have been able to muster the personal responsibility to do the right thing and confront the monster accused of committting these heinous crimes against children...so long as he could still be assured of the wins record, of course. 14 years of relative silence from your father so that he could keep on coaching a football team. Wow!
Soon all will know that JoPa's moment, his legacy, will forever be "that during the several times when he was confronted with "what to do" with this unseemly situation -- even when officially informed of a most dispicable atrocity, he failed his fellow man (children, no less) in SPECTACULAR fashion and actually REALIZED A GAIN along the way because of his complicit silence and indifference. He's got the win record, though. You must be so (PennState) proud...That win record ain't gonna mean much though when your dad is standing at the gates of hell waiting for his ticket to be punched to eternal ****ation.
JoPa's legendary hypocricy is responsible for not preventing this horrendous abuse from happening ...again...and again...and again -- up to 14 years worth of agains to these already challenged young boys. And you know..this will never be over for them. Those damaged young boys sometimes grow up to be angry and dangerous young men. When this all comes to light, you and yours will be nothing but a bunch of unfortunate looking nimrods apologizing for the rest of your born days for sharing the name Paterno
Dear Jay:
This thing just didn't make any sense to me... until now...please read on.
I have been so furious about the recently exposed events at PSU that mentally I've gone to the extreme of suggesting that maybe if you had been sodomized by a grown man when you were 10 years old...maybe THEN your father would understand the gravity of the matter and may have been able to summon the decency to, ANYTIME IN THE LAST 14+ YEARS, at least ask some questions when it became apparent to him what had occurred on his watch. It just didn't make sense that he could be so indifferent when something like this was happening on HIS hallowed campus grounds. Simply informing the athletic director is reserved for revealing that someone on staff has not payed their parking tickets or that someone was taking some cash from the till, not when your long time assistant coach Jerry Sandusky is ram-rodding 10 year old boys in the shower of your football complex!
It's not likely the incident that was reported to your dad in 2002 by a visibly shaken grad assistant was his first awareness of Uncle Jerry's "tendencies". It is apparent to me now that JoPa had already "addressed the issue" in 1999, when he accepted Uncle Jerry's "retirement". As early as 1998 is when questions, serious questions and charges -- should have blown the lid off of this. Now, I'm sure that questions were forthcoming and the result was that the "problem" was made to be gone....
The flaw with that thinking is that the "problem" as your dad saw it, was that Coach Sandusky was the foremost threat to replace him as head football coach...and in 1999, THAT "problem" was gone, for your father. For if it was ever about integrity or justice or the damaged children, then your father would have done more in 1998 or 2002 or any other time that he was aware of the goings on with his coach and either ignored it or wanted to know what defensive schemes they'd run that week or "kicked it upstairs" after JoPa "watered it down", first and we'll find out soon enough, whether he actually discouraged any type of reporting of these incidents. If so, your daddy's going to the big house (and I don't mean Michigan Stadium), Jay. Hopefully to get a big dose of "backwards hugs" from a giant cellmate whose a big Pitt fan. Maybe then he'll get it... you know, when he GETS IT!
Behind closed doors questions were certainly asked/answered and swept away, again without recourse in 2002 But no matter, because in 1999 Uncle Jerry magically "went away" and who knows what agreements were negotiated in the dark shadows. This isn't about 2002, it's about what JoPa knew well prior to that time, as well. JoPa will need to answer to a higher authority than the board of directors or NCAA on that one, I'm afraid.
Does anyone believe for a minute that there was not at least a behind closed doors "WTF" session between your dad and his longtime colleague/friend/assistant, probably the moment he was ever aware of even a scent of that kind of abhorrent criminal behavior present on the beloved PSU campus -- in 1998 or earlier. How should this be handled? Oh, it got handled all right... and that may prove to be the real smoking gun in this mess.
Hey, I know...dilute, dilute, dilute and maybe it goes away...even welcome the guy back on campus like it's old home week whenever he wants to come back...indefinitely...JUST SO LONG AS SANDUSKY NO LONGER PINED TO BECOME THE NEXT HEAD COACH AT PENN STATE, what could be the harm? That's all JoPa really cared about, anyway. Case closed, problem solved..JoPa style. That's as bad as Sandusky's behavior. Dad's going away. Tell us all about it on your next twitter!
When you were just a young coach getting started, Uncle Jerry was a hot commodity as head coach material for a long time during his heyday as Defensive Coordinator at Linebacker U. Absolutely was expected that he would take over the reins one day at Penn State (no doubt sooner than JoPa would have been ready for him to do so). The term "coach-in waiting" was coined for this guy long before the current trend became popular. I remember when Maryland offered the guy the head job and I'm sure he had other offers as well.
That's the bottom line here... Getting rid of Sandusky allowed the Paterno dynasty to live on...and on... and on. Hell, maybe a nimrod like you might even end up as the head man one day. Great plan for family succession!
Just think how wonderful it was. No alumni looking for a new coach after a down season or two, just business as usual. So now it all makes sense to me... when this very timely information became known to your father, Uncle Jerry abruptly (was) retired in 1999, which left "Pops" with a clear path to go for the all-time record for wins. Hell, with the heir apparent out of the way, dad could go on forever and take the whole stinking family of hangers-on and no talent bumblefish, with him!
Un-believable, but how else do you explain a man who so vehemently espoused honesty, integrity, going the extra mile, etc, simply rolling over when a transgression of this magnitude is front and center to him that could destroy the institution that he supposedly loves, not to mention the damage to the children -- and he does little or a nothing to stop it.
At any cost, he would go on and on and on as a football coach. He even had hoped to "will" you the head coaching position when he was through with it. I think we know that's not going to happen now.
Maybe if it had been YOU or one of your children who was violently taking the business end of Uncle Jerry, maybe then your father would have understood and he would have done something about it, but then, again, if it would have gotten in the way of the wins record, MAYBE NOT....
Maybe if your dad could have witnessed the vacant stare and hidden shame, shattered potential and pain of a son permanently scarred by this kind of unimaginable torment, maybe then he would have been able to muster the personal responsibility to do the right thing and confront the monster accused of committting these heinous crimes against children...so long as he could still be assured of the wins record, of course. 14 years of relative silence from your father so that he could keep on coaching a football team. Wow!
Soon all will know that JoPa's moment, his legacy, will forever be "that during the several times when he was confronted with "what to do" with this unseemly situation -- even when officially informed of a most dispicable atrocity, he failed his fellow man (children, no less) in SPECTACULAR fashion and actually REALIZED A GAIN along the way because of his complicit silence and indifference. He's got the win record, though. You must be so (PennState) proud...That win record ain't gonna mean much though when your dad is standing at the gates of hell waiting for his ticket to be punched to eternal ****ation.
JoPa's legendary hypocricy is responsible for not preventing this horrendous abuse from happening ...again...and again...and again -- up to 14 years worth of agains to these already challenged young boys. And you know..this will never be over for them. Those damaged young boys sometimes grow up to be angry and dangerous young men. When this all comes to light, you and yours will be nothing but a bunch of unfortunate looking nimrods apologizing for the rest of your born days for sharing the name Paterno
quote:Originally posted by Matt13:
Here is what I would say--
If it wasn't for the institution, this could not have happened. The existence of the institution was an enabling factor for the crimes of this magnitude to occur. The institution provided a victim pool, a venue, and the means by which these acts were perpetrated.
Furthermore, every rabid Penn State fan enabled this, unintentionally. The more that a program is put on a pedestal, the greater the incentive for covering up scandal and allowing it to continue behind the scenes. The popularity of PSU football and Joe Paterno is, at the root, the cause of the lack of action.
Lastly, regarding the NCAA, this is a situation in which I am torn. While it was not an issue of athletic rules or competitive advantage, it is precisely the fact that it was an athletic program that enabled this to occur.
Matt I understand where you're coming from and realize this is how things are seen but I just can't get on board with it. The institution is not a person. It's not really something that is tangible. The institution is there because people make it be there therefore it's the people who do the wrong and not the institution. Penn State University did not hurt these kids - Jerry Sandusky did. Penn State University did not cover this up - the president, VP, AD and JoePa did.
The players of PSU did not hurt these kids nor cover it up. Same can be said of the secretaries, the trainers, the janitors and whoever else is going to be affected by a death penalty for the football team.
Yes losing your job is part of life and other avenues of the business world have collateral damage but a secretary who loses their job due to mismanagement is because the company is out of money or is dissolved. PSU is not in this situation - they can continue to move on and help with the healing process that is going to happen.
The people who did this are no longer part of PSU - so why should innocent people get punished? Going back to JH's example of Georgetown - I wonder how many of those people who committed the violations are still at Georgetown? I wonder if it's a safe bet that nobody is still there - so why punish people that are there?
I just watched a segment on NBC Sports Talk about this and Erik Kaselias (spelling?) said it's time to move on and start the healing process. The people who did this are gone and in the process of being punished. PSU is going to get hammered in public opinion and civil lawsuits. What else can the NCAA do that's going to cause a change or remorse or punishment? He made a great point - the NCAA should punish PSU by having them give several million dollars to charities of children in situations like this.
If you want the institution to do something then do it with the wallet. Losing football won't solve anything but taking money from future football seasons can be spent on helping those who need it.
It gets worse, even more sickening, if you read today's story:
Paterno got richer amid scandel
So Joe saw the house of cards falling down, the board knew what was coming, and still Joe had the power to negotiate this sweet deal?
Paterno got richer amid scandel
So Joe saw the house of cards falling down, the board knew what was coming, and still Joe had the power to negotiate this sweet deal?
That article is incredible.
Coach,
I hear what you are saying, I essentially said the same thing in my post.
I do not think that the NCAA can legally place sanctions if there were no specific sanctions (by law) broken. It would be my hope that the NCAA is already in contact with them asking what sanctions they would place upon themselves. Unfortunetly, the entire community will suffer, but I doubt very much it is just because a few decided to not do anything over a very serious criminal matter, there were many who did know something was going on, the whole question is not how few but how many?
If you were a secretary and you got a whiff of something strange going on and not reporting to authorities (regarding child neglect or abuse and not just your superior), you are just as guilty as those with direct knowledge not reporting. You should know that working with children.
Lots of stuff will be coming forward in the next few months, maybe even years. I hope that they re-open the investigation of the missing prosecutor way back when this all came out very early on. Too strange.
Coach,
I hear what you are saying, I essentially said the same thing in my post.
I do not think that the NCAA can legally place sanctions if there were no specific sanctions (by law) broken. It would be my hope that the NCAA is already in contact with them asking what sanctions they would place upon themselves. Unfortunetly, the entire community will suffer, but I doubt very much it is just because a few decided to not do anything over a very serious criminal matter, there were many who did know something was going on, the whole question is not how few but how many?
If you were a secretary and you got a whiff of something strange going on and not reporting to authorities (regarding child neglect or abuse and not just your superior), you are just as guilty as those with direct knowledge not reporting. You should know that working with children.
Lots of stuff will be coming forward in the next few months, maybe even years. I hope that they re-open the investigation of the missing prosecutor way back when this all came out very early on. Too strange.
-----------------
It gets worse, even more sickening, if you read today's story:
Paterno got richer amid scandel
So Joe saw the house of cards falling down, the board knew what was coming, and still Joe had the power to negotiate this sweet deal?
-----------------
Amazing indeed. Whatever respect left of Joe and his institution is gone. Negotiate a golden parachute for his own retirement after testifying to the grand jury?! Did he said wish he could do more in the hindsight; yes but for himself.
The whole institution has to be purged of Joe and his co-horts' influence, just like Germany of Hitler's influences. People associated to him are still too mesmerized by his "successes" and too blind to see what is going on and challenge him.
It gets worse, even more sickening, if you read today's story:
Paterno got richer amid scandel
So Joe saw the house of cards falling down, the board knew what was coming, and still Joe had the power to negotiate this sweet deal?
-----------------
Amazing indeed. Whatever respect left of Joe and his institution is gone. Negotiate a golden parachute for his own retirement after testifying to the grand jury?! Did he said wish he could do more in the hindsight; yes but for himself.
The whole institution has to be purged of Joe and his co-horts' influence, just like Germany of Hitler's influences. People associated to him are still too mesmerized by his "successes" and too blind to see what is going on and challenge him.
I have not seen the question answered of Why did the Pres. and Ath. Director not do something. I can only guess it was to not tarnish the "Program".
If that was the justification then shouldn't that happen now on an even worse scale?
If that was the justification then shouldn't that happen now on an even worse scale?