Percentage of HS Players leaving State of Illinois for baseball scholarships

Woodly, Prep Baseball Report shows all the reported college commitments for a given year. That should give you a strong indication where the kids are going.

quote:

My question is simply this..Although i realize a certain number of the TOP PLAYERS are being recruited in these out of state venues by prominent colleges--- what percentage of these kids are actually benefitting from playing outside the state exclusively?

If a team consists of 15 players; what percentage of those kids do you think sign with those colleges outside the state?

woodly - these are interesting questions that are difficult to answer.

From a different angle, would a kid be harmed if he only played within the state of Illinois?

Not from a development point of view imho. From an exposure point of view - possibly, although you will find southern recruiters in the state of Illinois.

Recruiting is two components - talent plus exposure. A kid without the talent can play outside the state his whole career and never receive an offer - inside or outside the state. A kid with the talent, can play in the state his whole career and he might not receive an offer if the right coach does not see him play.

I don't believe there are any percentages for the questions you ask. IMHO however,

It is not necessary to play outside the state to properly develop a college or pro player for that matter.

It is very likely necessary for an IL player to either showcase or play at a tournament outside the state where a college coach can see them play before they will ever see an offer from outside the state. If a team of 15 players, all of them having sufficient college talent, showcases or plays at tournaments outside the state before college recruiters, I could see the majority of those kids getting offers outside the state.

A good example for what I am saying is Coach Merc's travel team that showcases/plays outside their northern state of NY. To the best of my knowledge, the majority of their players, including Coach Merc's son will be attending southern colleges on scholarship. I'll see if I can get Coach Merc to post in this thread to offer his insights.

quote:

It is very likely necessary for an IL player to either showcase or play at a tournament outside the state where a college coach can see them play before they will ever see an offer from outside the state. If a team of 15 players, all of them having sufficient college talent, showcases or plays at tournaments outside the state before college recruiters, I could see the majority of those kids getting offers outside the state.

Not meaning to further complicate the analysis, but I think there are plenty of high-school players who are not rostered on travel teams that play primarily out of state, that leave the state on scholarship anyway. I don't think that these travel teams are always a necessary stepping stone for those players desiring to take their baseball skills and head south (or east, west etc.). I think the same can be said of showcases. There are a number held inside the state that draw out-of-state recruiters.

Looking at Prep Baseball Report, the data is:

Year # Reported Commits Outside Illinois % Outside
2009 265 100 38
2010 132 32 39

The data includes schools from all the different levels of play.

The point I guess is Illinois kids at a pretty high percentage, go to pretty good schools out of state. If your goal for your son is to go to an out of state school, that most likely would include going to out of state tournaments and showcases.

quote:

If your goal for your son is to go to an out of state school, that most likely would include going to out of state tournaments and showcases.

Or simply attending the camps that those out-of-state schools provide.

There are different teams for different players. The player needs to evaluate himself and pick the team he needs to be on accordingly. American Legion teams usually stay in state. Being on Top Tier, we had exposure everywhere/anywhere we played. From my point of view, it is always better to get as much exposure from as many people as possible.

I think much of it has to do with the level of talent that your dealing with. I have/had been amazed at the talent level of the HS players in the state of Illinois. With that being said, the summer programs who then travel with these kids to events outside the state are doing a great service for the schools outside the state. Taking teams to East Cobb etc have brought 70-100 top Illinois players to the south where 200-300 college recruiters are licking their chops. For what it's worth, the state of Illinois has 10-12 D1 programs and if they don't jump on the kids early, once they get to the warmer climates it's all over.
Our group of 2009 players represented approx 20 boys who made the treck out of NY. From that group, a few stayed in the NE and are at Manhattan, St John's, Villanova, Northeastern. 5 went to High Point, NC, 1 to Winthrop, 1 to Jacksonville, 1 to Elon, 1 to Austin Paey, 3 to Ave Maria in Fl and 1 to Scad.
Based on % it looks like it was about 60% or so left the state of NY. Here in NY there are probably the same 10-12 D1 schools with St John's in the best conference.
It's really just the exposure.

All great responses needed for the discussion we are having... but the major focal point we had was this.... If you are playing outside the state of Illinois or Indiana....you have 15 players...HOW MANY OF THOSE 15 PLAYERS ARE ACTUALLY receiving offers from out of state schools... 3? 4? 5? If you look at the statistics that were put on this website earlier in this forum...it would be reaching to say 1/3rd of the roster?
Parents are constantly striving to get in the better travel programs.... I don't know of any travel program that i have seen that have 15 D-1 players on their squad which would merit 15 scholarships to out of state schools ....so where do the parents draw their line?
Very difficult situation but very interesting discussion... We realize that out of state exposure is NECESSARY...in any form...camps, tourneys, exposure events... but if majority of kids on a team are NOT GETTING OFFERS from out of state schools.... then shouldn't' the travel teams activities be MIXED to enable all the kids the opportunity to get offers?
Alot of the parents become "upset" with the organization due to their sons being left without great offers at the end of the summer and they end up with a "inferior" offer(according to them)from an Illinois institute at the end of the signing period...
I don't have an answer for them....In the past kids have stayed in Illinois for baseball prior to the exposure days....THE BEST TALENT available is now leaving the state due to the exposure....but the question is: WOULDN'T A MIX BE BETTER THEN STATING WE GO OUT OF STATE DUE TO THE COMPETITION?

Does the original question assume all of the IL players had been recruited or even been given a cursory response by instate schools? What if said kid tried to get interest from a state school and is now out of state, in our case TX with $$, however they did it?

For that matter what does the $$ part have to do wiht it? What that same IL kid would have said bring me in as preferred walk on and I'll earn my keeps.

Going forward, the state schools are going to be more hard pressed to keep state talent. As the kids here getter better, and they are, there will be more and more outside schools looking in.

On Top Tier's team this year, this is where the starting team ended up:

Pitcher: Clemson
C: Virginia Tech
1B: Kansas St.
2B: Northwestern
SS: Wake Forest
3B: LSU
OF: Michigan, Southern Illinois,

[

quote:

Woodly, Prep Baseball Report shows all the reported college commitments for a given year. That should give you a strong indication where the kids are going.

BTW, our HS has 4 kids continuing their collegiate carrers, 2 in state and 2 out of state. None are on the 2009 list. i'm sure there are many others.

I hope this helps a little. When we set our schedule we try to take care of all of kids. As an example, last year we opened up with tournament locally that was attended by over 30 college coaches many from the NY and New England area. From there we went to SC for 4 days and then to GA for 12 days (our southern exposure). Home for a week and then down to VA for 4 days (mid Atlantic exposure). Home for a few days then up to Mass (NE Exposure). Our August schedule and fall consisted of 4 events of which 2 were Perfect Game Qualifiers and all are local and pretty heavily scouted.

What our schedule does is give players maximum opportunities to be seen by a large number of schools in state and out. Of the kids who stayed at home in my post above, were kids who chose to stay in NY but did receive offers to schools in the south.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Merc:
I hope this helps a little. When we set our schedule we try to take care of all of kids. As an example, last year we opened up with tournament locally that was attended by over 30 college coaches many from the NY and New England area. From there we went to SC for 4 days and then to GA for 12 days (our southern exposure). Home for a week and then down to VA for 4 days (mid Atlantic exposure). Home for a few days then up to Mass (NE Exposure). Our August schedule and fall consisted of 4 events of which 2 were Perfect Game Qualifiers and all are local and pretty heavily scouted.

What our schedule does is give players maximum opportunities to be seen by a large number of schools in state and out. Of the kids who stayed at home in my post above, were kids who chose to stay in NY but did receive offers to schools in the south.

your program is excellent and you recruit heavily from around the areas...true? how many programs out there like yours? I am sure there are alot that would like to be like yours... YOUR INPUT HELPS Alot--THE KEY TO YOUR COMMENTS IS THAT YOU GIVE A GOOD MIXTURE...LOCALLY AND OUT OF STATE...

This question can be most accurately answered by taking a look at the quality of the HS or travel team.

Old news but I think the percentages would be similar:

OPRF 05 class... 5 D1 scholly's
Texas
Florida State
Coastal Carolina
Villanova
ISU

05 Indiana Yankees
25 players
20 scholly's
mostly midwest with Miami and FSU in the mix.
ISU,Louisville(3),Indiana, Austin Peay,Western Kentucky etc.

Bottom line....The better the travel team the more scholly's...the southern schools will get the lions share from the better teams.

As JKennedy said...above and beyond ANY travel experience...go to the camp of the school of your choice. The top programs want to see you for more than 1 or 2 games. They want to see how versatile you are. They want to get a handle on your persona and charachter. Many programs recruit almost exclusively from their camp. It's a clue that you are interested in them if they decide they are interested in you.

Playing out of state opens up options for players that have the ability to play the game. Sometimes the best option is out of state. Sometimes its not. But playing on these teams is all about creating more options for the players. Here in NC there are numerous D1 programs. UNC , NC State , Wake Forest , Duke , ECU , UNC Charlotte , Elon , Western Carolina , UNC Asheville , Gardner Webb , Appalacian State , etc etc. Why would a kid from NC benefit from playing outside the state? Because his best option might be a program from Va , SC , Maryland , etc. Its all about creating as many options for the players as possible.

The top tier players from Illinois are going to be highly coveted by the top programs around the nation. #1 its a state with some outstanding talent. Its a state that does not have alot of high profile baseball programs. Its cold in Illinois during the college season. Programs are going to continue to cherry pick the talent from Illinois as long as they can.

Coach May has it right, traveling out of state helps create options for players. Since most college baseball players will turn pro in something other than baseball, the academic fit should be a key consideration when choosing a school. While Illinois has many fine colleges and universities, only a couple may be a good academic fit for a specific player. Unfortunately, those schools may not have an interest in that particular player for any of 100 reasons (although he may be good enough to play at or above that school's level).

Also, great players need to test themselves against the best competition and sometimes it helps to compete on a regional or national stage to measure your progress against the best players in the country. While there are many great players in Illinois, you'll need to travel to play a team with multiple players who will be drafted in the top 10 rounds.

That being said, traveling constantly seems completely unnecessary. Many out of state recruiters come to Illinois regularly and the level of play is very high when Illinois' best face off.

In more than 4 years of being involved in the OPRF baseball program, arguably the best in Illinois, I saw repeat visits by Minnesota, Kentucky and very few others.

Although many recruiters do come to Illinois, the top programs rarely do. SEC/ACC and Big 12 recruiters are as scarce as Milton Bradley smiles.

If you want to go to a particular school...go to their camp! Call them...let them know who you are and make sure it's the top level camp.

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"...as scarce as Milton Bradley smiles."

In fairness to Milton soxnole...I would have a hard time mustering a smile too.




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Jumping off an airplane and trying to catch a ball at the same time usually ends up like this.

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And ends up in here...






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Maybe I should have said as often as a "Sweet Lou waking moment...a Lovie tirade...an Ozzie sentence without*&%#$@"....etc.

Go 4 it gotwood!!!

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I'm sorry soxnole. What were you saying? I was watching Ozzie at a press conference!




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For a point of refrence. 2009 fall Midwest Reds Scout team. All players are from Wisconsin or Illinois. Breakdown of schools:

IL State-1
SIU-1
Valpo-2
Minnesota-1
AZ State-1
NIU-1
Wabash Valley-1
IA Western-1
Notre Dame-1
IN State-1


Roster of 19. Not sure if that helps.

quote:

Originally posted by blazer25:
For a point of refrence. 2009 fall Midwest Reds Scout team. All players are from Wisconsin or Illinois. Breakdown of schools:

IL State-1
SIU-1
Valpo-2
Minnesota-1
AZ State-1
NIU-1
Wabash Valley-1
IA Western-1
Notre Dame-1
IN State-1


Roster of 19. Not sure if that helps.

yes it helps...thanks!

Woodly

Your always asking the tough questions.

Went back from 06 with Spark players that I have had and are out at schools. Obviously some of the kids have switched schools for various reasons but these were where they committed.

Since 06 sent out 127 players

58 players to Illinois schools at various levels at 19 different schools. So a little less than half stayed in Ill.

69 players have left the tundra to 48 different schools outside Illinois, many still in the frozen tundra however. Of the 48 outside Illinois 22 are still in most Midwest scouts areas( Il,Ia, Mich, MN, IND as a rule and it varys ). Leaving 26 schools outside my area scouts turf. Of the 26 schools we are talking 35 kids who scampered away.

Numbers can be misleading....

From a Pro scouting perspective I would think for job security reasons and others they would want our boys in the scouts area.. Midwest area, not just Illinois...

So to sum that mess up,
Have kids at 67 different schools since 06
41 of which are in a Midwest Scouts area(19 in Ill,58 players..) 22 out but in scouts area-34 players)
92 players stayed in their area.
26 out of the area schools , representing 35 kids.

Man Woodly, making me think too much on a Sunday morning.

That's pretty interesting Bill. Didn't realize it was that high.

Just a couple observations from someone who has been thru this twice.

If $$$ matters, stay in-State. If you take a 60-70% D-1 scholarship out-of-State you are going to end up paying a lot of $$$ to go there. (Probably the same as in-State with no help.)

If academics/college experience matters most, go where ever you are comfortable.

If baseball matters, go South to a D-1 as far South as you can or a southern JUCO.

If playing time as a freshman matters, be careful where you go because a lot of D-1's kids I have seen haven't had enough playing time and left for "greener" pastures." Think hard about a really good JUCO.

JMHO. It ain't easy to decide.

nc42dad,
Let's not forget, that in a good number of cases, states can offer in state tuition to out of state students if their grades are high enough. With Illinois having some of the highest resident tuition rates in the country, that would make out of state schools much more attractive on a financial basis.

Attending college and playing baseball in the south or out west (ie. non-tundra) generally comes down to a higher risk/ higher reward scenario. Better programs attract better players and you will be facing very stiff competition for PT on day one.

Overall it would be wise to think about going to a place where you would be happy attending assuming you ended up not playing baseball there at all. While the above advise is easy to give, its a bit harder to take.

I just off the phone last night with a dad who's soph son just got cut from an excellent school in the Big East. He's looking to land as a walk on somewhere else.

Sad situation and a tough road ahead.

I think you have to be a super positional player to leave the midwest and expect to have any chance to play and be successful. I can think of some who have, and have been successful: Powers, Ruettiger, the other kid from AZ state that got drafted this year, and maybe some others. I think you need some luck too. If I'm a SS from IL and am getting thrown some bones from ACC, SEC and Pac10 schools, I'd really be asking why and doing some due diligence to ensure that I'm not going to get hosed. Do they really need to come to IL to get a SS? Ofcourse I know there are no guarantees to stay at home either. However, there is probably 750+ miles and a 1000 other SSs between most of the SEC schools and Chicago. Bottom line is that if your talent level isn't significantly better, the odds of you playing is very unpredictable. Thats not good a good thing. JMO.

Tuz, I am not arguing, just asking.

Why would a school recruit a kid from Illinois just to 'hose" them? I thought all these kids went to Jupiter to get seen by programs from all over so they could go ouot of state to better weather to play ball. Are you saying all this out of state talk is unwarrented because you are less likely to play if you travel far from home?

I agree that the most important thing is for the kid to be at a place they like apart from the baseball. I also think generalizing is tough because each kid has a unique situation.

BBalldad -- Dont forget there are lots and lots of smaller warm weather schools scouting at Jupiter ..not just the big D1s . Last year i saw schools from the Carolinas all the way west to California , from texas north to minny . A few , i had never heard of . Many of them expressed some interest in a couple of our uncommitted guys .

Our shortstop from last year ended up going to Baylor as a walk on . The kid pretty much sealed the deal by performing well at Jupiter in front of the coaches . Before he committed , The kids father and myself had some long discussions about whether it was the right move or not . He also had a few other offers from schools in the midwest to consider . We both arrived at the same conclusion ...why would Baylor want to bring kid all the way down from illinois if they didnt believe he would eventually work his way onto the field and become a starter down the line ? Risky move ?? maybe a little

After this fall session ..this kid is backup shortstop on the depth chart to a senior . Things seem to be working out well for him so far .

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad1954:
Tuz, I am not arguing, just asking.

Why would a school recruit a kid from Illinois just to 'hose" them? I thought all these kids went to Jupiter to get seen by programs from all over so they could go ouot of state to better weather to play ball. Are you saying all this out of state talk is unwarrented because you are less likely to play if you travel far from home?

I agree that the most important thing is for the kid to be at a place they like apart from the baseball. I also think generalizing is tough because each kid has a unique situation.

I'm not saying its the wrong decision to go to a school in one of the big time conferences. However I think that its is very prudent to be very honest in the assessment of yourself and the associated risks and rewards as part of the process. And all the other intangible stuff.

Regarding the SS at Baylor, he knew he was going as a walk on; however the family liked all the other pluses that Baylor was offering them; education, academic scholly etc., besides just the baseball package itself. Therefore if the baseball package didn't work out they knew that they remaining pluses for them was worth it. All good stuff about the decision making process. Was it risky from a baseball perspective; yes as a walk-on especially considering there is no penalty to the program if they don't keep you. I'm very proud of him.

Here is an example of a risk that didn't pan out for a walk-on. A pitcher from our area was playing at one of the AZ community colleges. Was a top pitcher on his team and a league all-star. ASU asked him to come out as a walk on. They even put a picture and bio of him on their website. They ended up cutting him late. He was probably one of a bazillion kids ASU invited to walk on.

Like anyplace... risks? Yep! Rewards? Yep! But you better be sure your getting throw a nice juicy meat bone, versus a chicken bone; or you can get hosed sometimes by your own fault.

Ain't this fun.

I think you go where they show you the love. It doesn't necessarily have to be about money either. Using Tuzi's drive the bus analogy, it would be way better to play in the Big 10 than sit the bench in a power conference imho. If some school like Mississippi State is in love with a kid like Connor Powers then more power to them. That doesn't mean a Big 10 kid takes a back seat to them. Numerous high draft choices are coming out of the Big 10 each year. Indiana produced several of them last year. Ohio State's Nick Swisher is currently showing off his mohawk hair cut in the World Series. Lars Davis was a high draft pick for Illinois a few years back. Ohio State has produced several top draft picks recently. Michigan has produced many fine players and high draft picks. Zach Putnam for example is rising rapidly in the Indians organization. The Big 10 can be used as a launch pad to the next level. No apologies or defense of the conference need be made imho.

Go where you are wanted and where they show you the love is a pretty good approach no matter the location.

I'm not real comfortable with the underlying theme on some of these posts that Illinois kids need to be wary of competing with kids from around the country. I know first hand that Illinois kids and Illinois teams can compete with anyone and any team from anywhere. I also happen to know first hand that Illinois position kids can be wanted at top ACC and SEC schools.

I think Illinois is now considered to be one of the up and coming recruiting areas for colleges (and pros). Certainly California, Texas and Florida come first to mind in this regard but Illinois is right up there with the next level areas that include Georgia and possibly Virginia.

Just go out there and compete.

quote:

Originally posted by igball:
Go where you are wanted and where they show you the love is a pretty good approach no matter the location.

I'm not real comfortable with the underlying theme on some of these posts that Illinois kids need to be wary of competing with kids from around the country. I know first hand that Illinois kids and Illinois teams can compete with anyone and any team from anywhere. I also happen to know first hand that Illinois position kids can be wanted at top ACC and SEC schools.

I think Illinois is now considered to be one of the up and coming recruiting areas for colleges (and pros). Certainly California, Texas and Florida come first to mind in this regard but Illinois is right up there with the next level areas that include Georgia and possibly Virginia.

Just go out there and compete.

Igball, I agree with everything you say about IL kids. But the caution about going to top programs doesn't just hold true for IL kids...the caution is for all kids. The very best high school players in the country can go anywhere they want (if they don't sign after being drafted) and they will likely play right away. The next level kids (and below) might get a chance to go to a top program, but they will sit until a spot opens up in front of them.

Hopefully, when that happens, you're ready to take the spot. Of course, while you're waiting, working your tail off, learning all you can, becoming the best you can be, the school is recruiting the very best available players for the same position. A draft pick kid steps in as a frosh after you waited two years and all of the sudden, you're a junior sitting behind a freshman stud. It happens. Anytime a freshman walks into a college program and is put into the starting lineup, someone is sitting behind him, trying to figure out a different way to get on the field (versatility is a good thing).

Again, this happens to kids all across the country and at all levels of play. I always recommend to kids to go where they have a good chance to play freshman (or at least by sophomore) year. If you're good enough to be a 1st round pick, they'll find you even if you're not playing in the SEC.

The Big 10 & the Valley are both full of teams with excellent players. They get many of the top players from the areas in which the schools are located. The competition is pretty fierce and they play a very good brand of baseball. The top conferences get the best kids from their areas and also cherry pick the top-top kids from everywhere else. The B10 & Valley will never be as good as the top conferences, but that's just part of the geography.

I think it's more fun to play at ISU than to sit at LSU. For some that may not be the case, but I don't know very many happy college players who sit.

quote:

Originally posted by deucedoc:
Woodly

Your always asking the tough questions.

Went back from 06 with Spark players that I have had and are out at schools. Obviously some of the kids have switched schools for various reasons but these were where they committed.

Since 06 sent out 127 players

58 players to Illinois schools at various levels at 19 different schools. So a little less than half stayed in Ill.

69 players have left the tundra to 48 different schools outside Illinois, many still in the frozen tundra however. Of the 48 outside Illinois 22 are still in most Midwest scouts areas( Il,Ia, Mich, MN, IND as a rule and it varys ). Leaving 26 schools outside my area scouts turf. Of the 26 schools we are talking 35 kids who scampered away.

Numbers can be misleading....

From a Pro scouting perspective I would think for job security reasons and others they would want our boys in the scouts area.. Midwest area, not just Illinois...

So to sum that mess up,
Have kids at 67 different schools since 06
41 of which are in a Midwest Scouts area(19 in Ill,58 players..) 22 out but in scouts area-34 players)
92 players stayed in their area.
26 out of the area schools , representing 35 kids.

Man Woodly, making me think too much on a Sunday morning.

thanks Bill that helps us alot.....and didn't mean to have to rack your brain that much...take care of that neck and back!

Cleveland, I think you said it best. I don't think we (parents and players) enter the recruiting process with the only goal being getting out of town. I think when it comes right down to it, and if a couple or several offers are similar, then weather will jump right in and trump the others... But we are looking for the love... and the commitment from the coaching staff.

And taking a leap of faith that when they tell you he'll be right in the lineup and is expected to contribute right away, that it will pan out just that way. And that the staff will work towards developing your son, especially if he has any real interest in playing beyond college.

And when all is said and done, we continue to reevaluate our choices and the guidance we provided and wonder all the time if we did the right thing and if he is in the best possible spot. He is.

And now, god willing, we get to go through it two more times (maybe three). This summer we'll be looking for the love again...