Perfect Game Question

DLock,

I can’t tell you if it’s a good idea to attend another event or not. If you have improved a lot it might be. If you have only slightly improved you might end up being disappointed. Also, so much depends on what level of college you're looking at.

It's not always about the grade. The other numbers tell a story. For example... If a player is looking for DI opportunities, he can't show a below average arm, below average speed and below average hitting ability. I'm not saying you fit that description, but sometimes players need to find a place that will allow them to develop both as a player and as a person. There are plenty of colleges out there that want good baseball players and good students. No matter what you do I wish you the very best and hope you find what you're looking for.

Sometimes people put a bit too much importance on the grade we give. Yes, college coaches might consider the grade as a sorting tool, but players with determination can overcome nearly anything.

The other day a player made his Major League debut with the Tigers. When in high school we graded him a 7.5. I love it when things like that happen even if we are proven wrong. It shows what can be done when someone wants it bad enough. He went to a Juco and improved a lot. Then he went to a top level DI program and was drafted. Check out this link… PG Profile

DLOCK - I'm going to give you a view (and an example) that I believe is worth thinking about.

I hate to talk about my own sons on here...but in this case, I think one of them makes a relevant example...so I will.

My younger son is a 5-11, RHP...throws in the mid-80s...maybe has touched 90 once or twice in his life...sits in the 85-87 range. Three pitches for strikes.

He has been told over the years that for a high-D1 pitcher...his fastball is below average, his curveball is below average and his changeup is average.

For these reasons...he would not profile (or score) well in a showcase, so we pretty much stayed away from showcases.

But he wins and he knows how to pitch...24-4 in HS, all league, all state, area pitcher of the year (twice) and all American (Louisville Slugger). It took some work for college coaches to figure him out...including watching him over and over and talking to area coaches about what he brings to the table...for him to be recruited. He also had the benefit of a HS coach that I think is one of the very best in the country...and a summer coach who was equally well qualified. They knew what he could do and they didn't hesitate to tell people. He was almost cut from a Northern CA all star team as a junior because of his 'profiling,' until the area HS coaches who knew him well stepped in and told the organizer he was out of his mind if they cut him.

He ended up with multiple D1 scholarship offers. And now, as a freshman, is a Saturday starting pitcher in the Pac12 with an ERA in the top 10 in his conference, batting average against is #2 in his conference. For one week, was named his college's 'Student Athlete of the Week.'

This isn't about him...just an example...but again, he would not have scored well in showcases. Pro prospect at this time? Likely not. But (repeat)...he knows how to pitch...and has pitched well in the Pac12 to date.

My point is, there are more than one way to skin this cat...which BTW, doesn't mean that anyone with his profile can get to where he has.

Your trick is to figure out which path fits your abilities.

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"But he wins and he knows how to pitch."

B-I-N-G-O!



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quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
And now, as a freshman, is a Saturday starting pitcher in the Pac12 with an ERA in the top 10 in his conference, batting average against is #2 in his conference. For one week, was named his college's 'Student Athlete of the Week.'

Very nice and congratulations.

As to PG events, I highly recommend them not only for scouting purposes, but it also gives you and your son an idea of where he is, and how hard he will need to work to get where he wants to be.

Vector - The point wasn't about congratulating my son...at all...but thanks. It was about...maybe the OP has his evaluation and its time to seek other avenues based on his raw abilities and how they may score (or not)?

Or then again...maybe not?

Just showing how it can 'work' in other ways and giving him something to consider.

It's great to tell stories about kids who overcame their earlier scores and abilities. But many kids don't change drastically. We haven't seen this kid play then and now. He's been to PG before. He has to look himself in the mirror and ask himself if he's improved enough to warrant the expense. Are you good enough to stand out in the crowd of talent at PG?

He has to ask himself if he's being realistic about where he places himself in the world of college prospects. I suggest he ask other people/coaches he knows and trusts about his current ability.

While I believe in PG for those who believe it's worth the expense and can afford it there are other ways to be noticed. Have you made a list of prospective colleges/baseball programs? Where else can you be seen by these programs? Local showcases? Their camps?

Good advice so far. My two cents...
I'm not an expert on PG ratings but we've been through the process. I would caution you on your expectations. Unless your speed and arm strength improvements over a four month period are absolutely through the roof, raising your score from a 7.0 to an 8.5 is probably not realistic.

I don't recall what year you are. You'll want to factor that in as well. Do you still have time to make other significant gains and return at a later date? Where does your school search stand currently? Have you made any progress on narrowing the schools or level of play? Have you had any dialog with coaches? These things will all factor in. I'm a proponent of PG but it is not a must to have a great score. I know of a fair share of players who have scored the same as you and gone on to play college baseball. And, in many instances, the PG experience helped them properly channel their search.

I have the same opinion as cabbagedad. My son was never at a PG event; I didn't even know about PG events since they have not held one in Colorado before (but will this year). My son went to three college camps last fall and winter. He was also in email contact with these schools before the camps; these were schools my son identified as being a good fit for him academically. At his last camp it was obvious after the first hour who the school wanted; this camp cost me $50 (and it included lunch). He will be playing D2 ball next year with a good scholarship. My son and I learned the difference between a school showing interest in you and actively recruiting you.

A suggestion for you, ask your current coach if he can measure your 60 time and gun your arm strength; this should tell you if you really have improved that much since December. This should help you decide if it is worth the cost or not. The big question for you....are the schools you are interested in going to be at this event? You said it yourself, they will want to see you play.

Cabbagedad,

The reason I say I think I could jump to an 8.5 is because I have put up better numbers in the past. I ran a 7.2 but I have been down to a 6.8 before. I feel like running a 6.8 could give me a half point bump. I threw 77 from the outfield but I have thrown 82 before. I feel like if I can get up to 84 then that could give me another half point bump. Then I feel like if I hit better then that could giver another half point bump as well.

I just don't know if you're focused on the most important thing DLOCK? The score is secondary...and possibly informative...but understanding where you fit in the college landscape and creating a strategy/plan to get there is your best chance.

DLock,

You have received some good advice in this thread. In your last post, I can see where you are pretty much ignoring it. Look back through the thread and listen to what people are saying.

DLock,

You sound like a good kid. You also sound like you want it badly. The numbers you posted would create more interest and improve your grade. But the grade is just a grade, it's not the most important thing.

What's most important is that you take control of the situation as much as possible. Persistance is so very important. Don't let others dictate your future. Anything is possible no matter what your PG Grade might be.

Here is yet another former PGer (we gave him a 6) who recently got called up to the Major Leagues (Dodgers). Some players just don't allow our grade to stop them. In fact, they don't let anything stop them.
Michael Antonini

Agree with the advice given. My 2012 was scored an 8.5 but got no D1 interest. So it's not all about the score. As an OF it appears speed is the #1 criterion for scouts. Have seen many sign D1 because the ran sub 6.6, but could only muster high 70s to low 80s velo.

DLOCK,

I have commented before on how I believe you have it together and you seem like a bright individual. Your situation reminds me very much of my son.
He did a PG showcase December 2010. He too is an OF. He did not score quite as well as he had hoped.

Again, like you, he is a 2013. He wants to go to the World Showcase next January as a Senior to improve his stats and grade. We have verified OF throws 8-9 mph higher than his showcase reading and 2-3 tenths off his 60. and 12 more mph than his recorded fastball.

He does not want those numbers to remain on the site and wants to replace them with respectable stats, all the while understanding that his score may only improve .5 or maybe 1 if he is lucky, or perhaps not at all.

The fact that you have gone to two so recently and received the same grade implies to me that it is unlikely to improve significantly.

Should you, however, decide to go, I would wait until January. My theory on this is 1) you may commit by then; 2) you are unlikely to improve so much in 6 months; and 3) this is probably silly, but I believe you are capable of a faster 60 time in the winter than in the summer. The summer is the rainy season and the ground is usually wet or saturated, thereby leading to slower times. If you go in the winter, there is a chance to get very dry and harder grass to run on, thereby producing faster times. This may sound crazy, but it makes sense to me.

Whatever you do, good luck!

Here’s another tale, for what its worth. In HS, P1 was very polished and successful, but his FB was at least 5-7MPH below yours. P2 was a 90’s thrower as a HS Jr, and had the projectable body which to scouts is a little blue pill. 17YO, 6’3”/180.

P2 was drafted in the 3rd round out of HS in the 2011 draft, and is still playing rookie ball. P1 went to a local JUCO as a walk on, and proved he could win at that level, being POY 2 years in a row. He got drafted in 2011, and is already in AA, and getting batters out there, the same way he did in HS and college. My point is, there’s going to be a point where the glitz and glitter of the gun numbers doesn’t cut it anymore. It will always be important, but if you play long enough, its going to come down to getting batters out.

Good luck!

You've got your number TWICE. stop chasing a number and start chasing schools. That number is not an end all or be all and is not magic. Is a slightly increased number going to buy you that much. Shift your focus you'll be fine it is clear you want it very badly. it will work out.

The player PG first mentioned was drafted the same year as son, he was in the 35th round mine the 2nd. Guess who made it up first? NOT the player who received the 10's from PG.

Which brings up the point people are trying to bring to you, there are so many things that happen as the years progress. What you need to do is to focus on the now, and let the other stuff sort itself out. Focus on what is and not what could or should be.

You want colleges coaches to notice?

Get out and let them see you play, play as much as you can to improve your skills.

Dlock-my son is a good student like you and got quite a lot out of the Headfirst showcase. Have you been to one of those? (BTW-we love PG but I don't ever recall any coach ever saying they were interested in him because he was ranked "X" at a showcase).

Although no coaches ever asked my son what his PG Ranking was, and I have no idea if any ever looked, my son was recruited by several programs that were in attendance following the World Showcase.

So, it can have a bearing and can provide opportunities if the right fit presents itself, as it did for my son.

My point earlier wasn’t to make it sound like the PG Grade or Ranking is UNIMPORTANT. It has been very beneficial for thousands of players. My point was that if the grade is less than ideal, it’s not the end of the world. It is time to go to work and prove someone wrong. I very much admire and respect any player who proves us wrong. Some of these guys have made it to the top. These guys didn’t rely on their PG Grade, they took matters in their own hands. PG Grades or rankings can create lots of interest, but “grades” or “rankings” simply are not capable of stopping a player from being successful.

Blue10,

The truth is we get lots of phone calls and emails from college coaches asking for additional information about players graded or ranked highly at showcases. Same goes for MLB scouts.

Floridafan,

Every college coach, or nearly every coach, is registered with PG. They all ready know what the grade or rank is, so there is no reason to ask someone for that information.
It really only makes sense that any MLB club, any college, that was going to make an investment in a player, is going to want as much information as possible on that player. That doesn’t mean they will totally rely on that information, but the more info the better. If they believe the information comes from a reliable source, it becomes even more important. They also know that every reliable source in baseball has been wrong at times.

Wow! $1,000 to attend a showcase? No thanks.

AMEN! You've already spent too much on Showcases. Target the schools you want and go after them!

This is just my opinion. From what I’ve seen, plus talking to people I know in and around baseball, the things that make kids stand out to scouts at Showcases are pretty simple:

- Fastball speed for pitchers. Doesn’t matter how you hit, how you run, if you can put it in the 90’s as a youngster, you will get looks.
- Speed – Speed, speed, speed. I’ve seen raw players with EXCELLENT speed picked over VERY GOOD players with average / below average speed. Coaches / Scouts believe speed is there (or not), most everything else can be taught
- Power at the plate – As in POWER at the plate. Friend of mine told me a story about a kid whose 60 time was timed with a calendar. His arm was so-so. However he was absolutely crushing the ball at a couple of big showcases.

Now does that mean if you don’t have the above, you won’t get looked at? Of course not. I know some coaches who get wind of a player at a showcase, but they almost always want to see that player PLAY THE GAME against good competition.

I don’t see a lot of college coaches and pro scouts tailoring their schedules around showcases. Honestly I think showcases are intended to be marketed as an UNBIASED evaluation tool for players (and parents) to see how their numbers stack up against other players.

Coaches tend to notice players while they are PLAYING the game.

You’ve gotten your answer. Sometimes the answer we get isn’t the one we want.

Again, just my opinion.

bostonbulldog,

For the record... $1,000 is not what PG charges. DLOCK15 did mention spending $1,000, but I took it that he was including travel expenses. Most PG Showcases are in the $500-$600 range. A few are less than that. Still expensive, I know, but not $1,000. Still, I will gladly accept your... No thanks.

ctandc,

Actually many college coaches do tailor their recruiting schedule around certain showcase events. For example most every top college will be at a certain showcase in Minneapolis in June.

College coaches and scouts tailor their schedule around seeing as much talent as possible in one location.

You are correct that they also want to see the players they're interested in play against the best competition. However, a baseball game does not always provide them with everything they want to see or know about a player. Individual events provide information that might not be available in watching a couple games. Especially pertaining to position players.

Most showcases also play games. Granted the actual outcome of these games is meaningless. However the competition level can be extremely good. For example, at last year's PG National Showcase there were 92 pitchers who topped out at 90 mph or better. Why would a college coach want to miss something like that. It's a place to see if someone is overmatched or not. That kind of hitter - pitcher competition is not always present while watching a game.

For much the same reason college coaches schedule attending the East Coast Pro Showcase or the Area codes every year. Believe me, coaches notice players and talent whether they're working out or playing the game. They notice every player running, throwing, fielding, hitting, and how they carry themselves. The more they see and the more they know a player, the better they are at making decisions.

I would say IMO, but it's not really my opinion at all. The top college programs have been going to showcases for many years.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Blue10,

The truth is we get lots of phone calls and emails from college coaches asking for additional information about players graded or ranked highly at showcases. Same goes for MLB scouts.

PG-I apologize if I sounded like I discounted the service PG provides to colleges and scouts! I now realize that just because none of the coaches son has spoken to specifically mentioned seeing his profile doesn't mean they didn't use PG to do their research.