Perfect Game value

John, welcome to the site.  You will get answers here but also know that you can search topics and there is an abundance of information on showcases, PG in particular.  IMO, the general consensus is that PG is the cream of the crop.  But the general consensus is also that you have to have something to show and have to know who you are targeting.  TONS of other factors.  I'll just leave it at touching the tip of the iceberg for now.  You've come to the right place.

Thanks so much, CD. I'll do a more thorough search. I did do a cursory one and didn't immediately see any info that directly got to the crux of my question, but, admittedly, I didn't spend much time on it. Thanks again!

I'll scratch the surface a bit more.  PG is the one that is the most go-to to the college recruiters and MLB scouts as far as checking a player's profile and measurables.  PG generally has a few of the most high profile events.  But there are a lot of "but's".  What are you trying to accomplish with the showcase?  What schools and what level are you targeting?  What are your son's current measurables?  What events will his travel organization get him to?  What is the budget?  What is his target academic major if he has one yet?  ... and countless others.

While PG events are very reputable and run professionally, a particular event may or may not be a match for what your son is targeting.  Just as example, a PG event may certainly give your son a good idea of the breadth of good players he is up against in the recruiting landscape.  But, if he doesn't have the measurables to show well, this can prove to be a very expensive way to learn that lesson.  He could go watch one for free.  The recruiting process in general is almost always a multi-pronged approach.  Showcases are just one element that may or may not be necessary, depending on many other things.

If your primary question is more of a comparison between PG and BF, I think it still depends on your son's target schools and current skill set.  Is he just getting started with the recruiting process or where is he at?

How important/valuable is the PG Grade assigned to you after attending a showcase? Someone mentioned that college coaches will look at them and start reaching out to anyone who is a 9 or better and uncommitted. Is this true? 

I cannot answer parts of the above questions, but what I do know for certain is that once my guy threw 90 mph at a PG event his phone blew up! And I do not mean the next day. I mean the next hour, in the car, driving home.

I found them well run, fair and very competitive. Other like services I found to be partial to certain players/teams/travel coaches.

But make sure you have something to show because the numbers will be there for all to see..good or bad!

Welcome. Plenty of good information on here. Easy search capabilities. Lots of good advice and insight from a lot of angles.

PG grade means absolutely nothing to college coaches or scouts. PG Showcases are just a money grab for PG. $700 and they do the same at every one so don't feel you have to travel to special ones or areas, unless you're trying to get in front of coaches/scouts in those areas (if allowed, check the NCAA Recruiting schedule).  The only benefits to a showcase is to go to a region where you think a coach or scout may be; getting used to being gunned and watched and cattle called. My son, 2021 RHP GT commit, is in the hunt for reps. We're trying to keep him active and throwing due to an extremely anemic innings pitched year as we continue to ramp for PG WWBA in Jupiter ("THE EVENT" to go to for exposure. Get on a team and go to that!) There was an event during a lull in game schedule and availability so we took it and he attended the PG South Top Prospects Games at Texas A&M.  Don't buy into the hype of the best players will be there. They won't and weren't. Due to Covid - we weren't even allowed in the stadium and there were ZERO scouts there, and no coaches obviously (due to NCAA Dead Period, even TX A&M wasn't allowed in their own stadium for this event).  We wanted the reps only. So with that in mind it was a successful, though expensive event. He also got top honors as the top prospect there, which was good, but the competition was not there. 

Another benefit of a showcase is an opportunity to get some quality reps in if you can't otherwise (maybe it's early or late in the season). When you travel to these events, don't forget to check out the local colleges in the area and drive/walk around campus. Very important to see the schools (and the cities they're in) to put them on the list of contenders. (eg. Duke, GA are not what you expect).

PG Showcases are not needed to be recruited to play college. My son and a ton of others on his team have never been (until a few weeks ago). Playing in PG events on the other hand, way more valuable and visible to coaches. 

You can research on the forums here for comparisons PG vs PBR (franchises, some are better than others like NY/PA...TX is HORRIBLE) vs Baseball Factory (all money makers for the organizations), less so of a recruiting event. 

Also be leary of college camps. You need to have a purpose and ability to be truly seen. Some are better than others. Again use the search function and you'll see write ups for various camps.

If Recruited = Skill + Exposure + Persistence + Luck then PG is a major force behind the exposure part of the equation.   They make it a well run marketplace to showcase talent.   If your son has elite, no-question-about-it D1 baseball skills, chances are really good they will get noticed at PG events (mostly WWBA for us).   Similar to Good Knights experience, my son had the same experience hitting 90mph on a PG WWBA mound.  My son had many eyes on him not so much because of his skills but because of his travel teammates skills....they all went on to play mid to high level D1s.  For baseball recruiting, PG is the top of the heap for showcasing exposure.  My son went to the PG World Wood Bat tournament a bunch of times over the years.   Every year, the talent and depth was amazing.   There are so many good baseball players trying to get recruited.

On the flip side of the coin, if your son is going to college with a firm focus on academics and also to play baseball then I think PG may not be so important for the exposure part of the equation.  There are numerous other showcases that really focus on the combination of academics and baseball.

My son ended up doing both PG and academic showcases.   Our strategy had changed because my son became very focused about his college major.   We didn't know any better at the time, so as it turned out the PG events we attended were great for getting some offers, learning and networking but PG played a very small part in his eventual direction and decision.  

As CabbageDad mentioned it is all about who you are targeting.   

If you are discussing PG versus Baseball Factory then it is no comparison PG is superior.  The only one catching PG is PBR and they are still years behind.  Like has been said, the quality of a showcase is who is going to be there and who will see the information and will the scouts trust the source.  The answer is finding the showcase that provides the people you want to see your son according to his abilities or potential abilities.  You will see here all the time about knowing which pond to fish in according to ability.  PG is the one that all college recruiters will see the results and they can find it easy plus they trust PG.

Give us more information about your son and we can help point in the right direction.  My sons never did a PG showcase but played in a lot of tournaments.  We did a PBR showcase but only because it was required to go to future's game and got the showcase at a minimal rate.  I've never been a fan of showcases but I know they work for the right player at the right showcase.  Never been a fan of camps either except when suggested to get offer.  But not everyone's journey is the same.  That is what makes this board so useful.  You will find so much info that either lines up with your journey or points you to the right journey.  Our journey with this board that kept me here was getting connected with a  travel team 14 years ago through this message board.

PG is very well run and a respected source by RCs.  PBR is more affordable and is becoming another "go to" for stats on kids.  At this point, I think PBR has partnered with the right people and give a lot more in depths stats with their showcases.  I disagree that PG/PBR showcases will not have scouts.  There are some showcases that get more than others, but I have seen them at every showcase my son attended.  You pretty much have to attend one of the smaller ones to get an invite to the big ones.  The PG junior National had just about every coach you could imagine and they are on 4 fields.  The same for the PBR Futures Games. 150+ scouts on 2 fields.  We did see the best of the best at the Junior National and the National including all the guys who were drafted out of HS in June.  I think it's worth going to one of each to see which one might benefit your son more.  We did both and I think both were helpful in recruitment.  PBR was probably the best for my son in terms of getting information on him out there.  We didn't play for a power team at all, so we relied completely on showcases and camps.  My son ended up talking for almost every school he had interest in from his performance at showcases.  Everyone has a different journey and there is not one "right" way.

@Francis7 posted:

How important/valuable is the PG Grade assigned to you after attending a showcase? Someone mentioned that college coaches will look at them and start reaching out to anyone who is a 9 or better and uncommitted. Is this true? 

The grades are completely irrelevant and the rumor you heard is absolutely untrue. The grades are for Johnny 7 stars to come back in 6 months after dropping another $700 and get his 8th star. If you want to know how useless they are, a top 10 pick in a recent draft was rated a 7, which is .5 behind a friend of ours who was cut from JV this spring before Covid ended the season. 

@Good Knight posted:

I cannot answer parts of the above questions, but what I do know for certain is that once my guy threw 90 mph at a PG event his phone blew up! And I do not mean the next day. I mean the next hour, in the car, driving home.

I found them well run, fair and very competitive. Other like services I found to be partial to certain players/teams/travel coaches.

But make sure you have something to show because the numbers will be there for all to see..good or bad!

 

Yeah - I think that the value is in the publication of unbiased metrics...mostly pitching velo's and 60 times...the overall grade not so much.  FWIW I found their in state rankings in our state to be much better than PBR.

Same as GoodNight. My son threw 90 and 91 at the 2 Fall WWBAs last year (Ft Meyers, Jupiter) and his phone blew up in the dugout after throwing a "Perfect Game". He hadn't even left the dug out! Started getting DMs on Twitter.

Get on a good team that will attend and compete at PG events and you'll be good.  Get to the part of the country you want to explore. We're from Texas and my son wanted to go to school East. So we went to GA/FL and played with East Cobb Astros! Gamechanger! Tons of scouts and coaches at every game and lots and lots of looks.

WWBA Fall was the clincher for him. He had some traction over the summer but the Fall WWBAs were paramount to his recruiting, once he broke 90.

@PABaseball posted:

The grades are completely irrelevant and the rumor you heard is absolutely untrue. The grades are for Johnny 7 stars to come back in 6 months after dropping another $700 and get his 8th star. If you want to know how useless they are, a top 10 pick in a recent draft was rated a 7, which is .5 behind a friend of ours who was cut from JV this spring before Covid ended the season. 

I would guess he also hadn’t been to an event in years.  They aren’t going to rate a 10 as a 7...

I'm not saying a kid comes as a 14 year old once and they have the correct read on him when he is 18, but there aren't a lot of 10s that are slouches.

My son never did a showcase.  He's a catcher.  We weren't against them, it's just that the local ones were at inconvenient times, and we didn't see the value in flying somewhere to do one.  He did a couple college camps that he was invited to (and was interested in) and got metrics (pop time, throwing velo, exit velo, 60 time) and used those numbers to communicate with coaches.  He did lots of the top national tournaments and always let coaches know where/when he was playing.  In the end the college coaches want to (need to) see you play, so that's where we prioritized the money.

Fenwaysouth did a great job summarizing.  Common sense would be the more exposure to events the better chance of being seen by someone, but the wallet is the rate limiting factor.  Son only did 1 PG event, got a 7.5.  He probably did 6-8 showcases (AZ is highly recommended) and 4-5 camps.  He received several "inquiries/contacts" from D2, &D3 but only received 2 offers from D1 which was in August of his Sr year.  PG probably would have generated more interest in D1's and "hopefully" raise his score.  Was the 7.5 an indication of how well he would do in college and beyond?  Not is his case.  Many other factors come into play of course.  From the recruiting process it definitely can't hurt (unless you go down) but concentrate on which path you want to take and focus on that.

@Francis7 posted:

How important/valuable is the PG Grade assigned to you after attending a showcase? Someone mentioned that college coaches will look at them and start reaching out to anyone who is a 9 or better and uncommitted. Is this true? 

The scores are reasonably accurate relative to player to player. However, I wouldn’t pay much attention to a 9 makes you this level of a prospect. An 8 ... A 7 .... I believe if you don’t score an 8 at PG you’re likely wasting your time. 

Its not that the 8 means anything to coaches and scouts. It means you’re probably not talented enough to get noticed. 

My son had already been “discovered” before his PG event. What he got from tournaments in East Cobb and Fort Myers was he may blend in with a lot of very good talent. But he belonged on the same field with the best. What the interested schools got was their third look at him.

A regional prospect is better off showcasing in his region. My son was “discovered” at SelectFest and Atlantic100. The national programs east of the Mississippi were there. It’s hard to stand out among the best in the country.

I struggle with some of the things being said here.  On one hand we all know that there is no "one size fits all" approach.  That which works well in one case, won't for another.  But then people throw absolutes out there.

Every coach has some thresholds they use in recruiting.  That saves time, is smart and casts a net wide enough that they're comfortable.  PG, PBR, etc are different in terms of value from state to state and region to region.  Are there coaches out there who reach out to PG 9 and ups because of that grade?  As a starting point?  Of course there are.  How many?  I have no clue.  But if a kid is a 9, 9.5 or a 10, coaches know the chances of that kid being a waste of their time are very small.  How many coaches have looked at a 9-10 only to find out they feel he's a 2 or 3?  Come on.  For the record, my son never did a PG event.  For the cost of one of those, he can do 2-3 PBR events.  In our area, most of the value in any showcase is confined to getting "verified" measurables.  Little to no coaches or scouts are in attendance.

But yes, coaches set thresholds.  We might find them silly, but they have to.  A coach simply doesn't have time to look at all 12,387 kids who filled out their questionnaire and sent an email of interest.  The better your program, the more stringent the thresholds can be.  Maybe you've had great results taking only 9+ PG kids.  If so, it might be smart to set your threshold there.  If you coach for Vandy or Arkansas, can you draw a line at a 7.00 60 and only look at kids below that number?  Almost certainly.  Will you lose out on a great player here and there?  Of course.  Can some schools only consider kids ranked in the top 25 of their state?  Yep. Some can.  Setting thresholds is about time management and playing the odds.  That's simply smart.

We are big advocates of PG.  My 2020 position player grew up a few miles from Lakepoint (opened when he was 13) and East Cobb. It's really neat to have his game numbers / progression over the years on his PG profile.  

Son went to 2 PG showcases, back to back, August and October of his junior year. He hit all his numbers (very good) across the board at the August showcase. PG put videos of him pitching and, I think I recall hitting, on social media, and he made his way onto 3 top 10 lists. His grade . . . an 8. He committed to a mid major D1 within two months of the showcase. Took him to school on the 14th, and so far so good with practice and school.  

The value of the showcase:  My son handled his own recruiting effort (with exceptional guidance / assistance from his travel coach). The PG videos from the showcase made it VERY easy for him to send emails with the link to his PG profile, showcase videos & measurables and game write-ups, etc.  

He went to another showcase in October, 2 months later, trying to improve his numbers and his grade. He got the same numbers / same grade at the 2nd PG showcase. The October showcase so soon after the August showcase was probably a waste of money. 

@baseballhs posted:

PG is very well run and a respected source by RCs.  PBR is more affordable and is becoming another "go to" for stats on kids.  At this point, I think PBR has partnered with the right people and give a lot more in depths stats with their showcases.  I disagree that PG/PBR showcases will not have scouts.  There are some showcases that get more than others, but I have seen them at every showcase my son attended.  You pretty much have to attend one of the smaller ones to get an invite to the big ones.  The PG junior National had just about every coach you could imagine and they are on 4 fields.  The same for the PBR Futures Games. 150+ scouts on 2 fields.  We did see the best of the best at the Junior National and the National including all the guys who were drafted out of HS in June.  I think it's worth going to one of each to see which one might benefit your son more.  We did both and I think both were helpful in recruitment.  PBR was probably the best for my son in terms of getting information on him out there.  We didn't play for a power team at all, so we relied completely on showcases and camps.  My son ended up talking for almost every school he had interest in from his performance at showcases.  Everyone has a different journey and there is not one "right" way.

Agree that there is no one simple answer to this. Everyone has their individual path. My son's path, a committed 2023, happened to include PG and PBR events that provided him some exposure and some things to include on his "resume" when he sent out some emails to the schools he was interested in. My son went out to the 14u National last summer and put up numbers that put him in the 90%+ in every category. I had no idea he would do that. That pretty much put him on the radar as right after he started receiving letters from schools, calls from travel programs to play with them, and calls to his travel organization coach asking about him. Right after he did a PBR event and PBR posted video of him all over social media. The head PBR guy got ahold of us and let him know that coaches were asking about my son and he was passing along the coach info as they wanted to talk with him.  So it was definitely worth the money spent at the 14u National and PBR showcase we went to. 

I do agree that some events are better than others. He got invited to Jr. National and the Freshman All American showcase. We didn't do Jr. National because his arm just wasn't where it should have been due to the Covid shutdown and figured he is able to do it next year as a sophomore. We had originally planned to go to the Freshman All American event but then decided last minute not to. Which turned out to be not a bad idea as I see that a lot of the big names from our state and his class are not going either. He did do the local PBR Underclass Top Prospects games. He really didn't need to go since he is committed, but it's sometimes good to put yourself in unfamiliar situations or against better/different competition. He enjoyed it, made some new friends, played against some guys he would normally not play against, and got some more Instagram and Twitter time, which of course these young kids eat up. 

Seek the best competition your son can handle.  Skip the showcases. 

In general and IMO.

@baseballhs posted:

I would guess he also hadn’t been to an event in years.  They aren’t going to rate a 10 as a 7...

I'm not saying a kid comes as a 14 year old once and they have the correct read on him when he is 18, but there aren't a lot of 10s that are slouches.

Showcases, no. Events, yes. Still - a top 10 pick wasn't even invited to PG National, let alone the AA game. 

The point was more to say don't put too much stock in the grade on PG. It's for the customer, not the recruiter. 

You don’t get grades from events. Only showcases, so that’s why.  Not saying kids don’t slip through the cracks (that they haven’t seen).  We had two kids drafted day one that weren’t invited to the AA but they also hadn’t attended events. They don’t really know what they haven’t seen.  That said, RCs can trust that PG  9-10s are good ball players.

Some thoughts about PG and PBR after a summer unlike any other:

1.  Showcases are run pretty much the same unless you are talking PG Jr. National et al...  I think coaches are in the habit of looking at both sites to get measurables.  Others have spoken about the PG grade so I will not address here.   From freshman to beginning of  jr year, we were all PG but my kid did a PBR showcase spring of Jr year.  He developed a good relationship with a local PBR rep. 

2.  Website - PG website is much better and easier to navigate than PBR.  Some may not feel that this is important, but when searching through players, imo it matters.  

3.  Tourneys - PG has the best exposure and most competition for tourneys, again imo.   This comes at a price, however.   Many games are at less than desirable locations (remote) with NO video capabilities (WWBA).   My kid is a pitcher so the DiamondCast velo feature was important.   

Without coaches on site this summer, video was the most important aspect.  The PBR 17u National Championship at Lakepoint provided the best quality video out there (unless you were lucky and made it to semis/finals of PG WWBA at East Cobb).   I believe the video he posted to his twitter feed from this event enabled him to find a home for 2021.  Probably going forward, more coaches will have a blend for recruiting (in person after seeing reliable video.)  

@leftymagic posted:

Some thoughts about PG and PBR after a summer unlike any other:

1.  Showcases are run pretty much the same unless you are talking PG Jr. National et al...  I think coaches are in the habit of looking at both sites to get measurables.  Others have spoken about the PG grade so I will not address here.   From freshman to beginning of  jr year, we were all PG but my kid did a PBR showcase spring of Jr year.  He developed a good relationship with a local PBR rep. 

2.  Website - PG website is much better and easier to navigate than PBR.  Some may not feel that this is important, but when searching through players, imo it matters.  

3.  Tourneys - PG has the best exposure and most competition for tourneys, again imo.   This comes at a price, however.   Many games are at less than desirable locations (remote) with NO video capabilities (WWBA).   My kid is a pitcher so the DiamondCast velo feature was important.   

Without coaches on site this summer, video was the most important aspect.  The PBR 17u National Championship at Lakepoint provided the best quality video out there (unless you were lucky and made it to semis/finals of PG WWBA at East Cobb).   I believe the video he posted to his twitter feed from this event enabled him to find a home for 2021.  Probably going forward, more coaches will have a blend for recruiting (in person after seeing reliable video.)  

 

 

the fact that i have to pay to see my own son's page on PBR is a turnoff (video and comments are behind a paywall).  

I actually much prefer PBR's website to PG's as I find it cleaner and easier to get around in.  I agree with @mattys that not being able to view your kid's video without a subscription is lame, but

A) you're not recruiting your kid so how value is there in you being able to watch it?  Coaches who want to watch it have subscriptions.

B) doing a PBR showcase gets you a deal where you get can their subscription for like $10/month and can cancel anytime.  While our state's PBR just sprung for a Trackman and Rapsodo I think, prior to that, a kid could do a PBR showcase here for around $200 (now it's about $300).  Has anyone ever seen any PG showcase that is less than $650/700? I haven't.  So me, I'm electing to spend $300 plus $120 a year on a subscription and saving hundreds of dollars.  And I get all the most important stuff - measurables and videos - and then some.

Also @mattys, only PBR videos and rankings are behind the paywall.  Comments are seen for free.

@DanJ, you're right. comments are included in the free subscription. I'm not so concerned with the cost of the pbr sub but the principle of the thing. I just paid a few hundred sending my son to one of their showcases. they're putting the video up anyway so it's not like it's going to cost them anything to give me access to the video. from a practical standpoint, what if his measurables look ok so i send a link to the page to a recruiter but, on video, he looks like newborn deer? as a parent who paid for the showcase, i think i should have access to see that so i have a more complete picture of what we're presenting to recruiters (or hiding from them).

We did value the PG baseball events and son's travel team played in their tourneys locally at Lakepoint. He did not do a showcase although he did receive a a few invites. I know of friends' whose sons participated in local PG showcases and would check the scores out occasionally to see what they received from the experts. I saw 9s and and few 10s and some 8s etc. I know how PG rated my son in general in articles and after games and i'm glad i never spent the money on the showcases. He was/is 5'10 so his size was always a detractor...was not projectable at all but could spin the baseball pretty good. To each his own, i think PG offers solid exposure and has built a fantastic model for that nationally. We did meet RCs at the events and playing at Lakepoint was pretty cool. In retrospect, i think my son continued to develop, improved and although he never got taller, was at the right place at the time so we got a little lucky.