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PG West Uncommitted & Underclassmen

3rdgenerationnation3rdgenerationnation100+ posts
My son just finished the PG West Uncommitted showcase in Mesa, AZ. While I'm sure the PG organization does not need my view of things I just wanted to take a minute to let others know how well run it was an what a positive experience it was overall for 4thGen. The Underclassmen event was held at the same time so while the 09's did not compete with the underclassmen I was able to observe both.

The concept of developing an on-line national database of video on prospective college players that coaches can access easily has to improve the likelihood that players and schools will find each other. Without having to travel, a program can see hundreds of potential recruits and a player can so much more easily reach out to programs that might never get the chance to see them in person.

The event was held at the Cubs spring training complex so the fields were in great shape, our AZ weather was perfect as usual. One thing I noticed was that the 60 yd times seemed good because the course was not in an overgrown patch of outfield and it was not wet with dew or watering as so often seems to happen. The staff and coaches were uniformly friendly and seemed to be enjoying themselves. The taping was done in a manner that was not disruptive, although many of the kids, including my son, were clearly nervous the first time they were taped during batting practice.

One issue that did come up was the no one walks rule. Also, no one took a base on a HBP. If you went to ball four on a hitter or were hit by a pitch the count reverted to 0 balls and whatever number of strikes the batter had accumulated. So if a hitter received ball four on a 3-2 pitch the count went to 0-2. Additionally, after throwing four balls to a batter pitchers were restricted to throwing fast balls only. I thought this made a lot of sense since hitter wanted the chance to hit and with a limit of 5 batters per inning you could count on how many innings you were going to get from each pitcher. It worked fine as long as pitchers were trying to pitch to the count and get hitters out. There were a few cases where it seemed the pitchers were throwing solely for the gun and could care less how many kids they walked or hit. One batter was plunked twice in an at bat and walked once as well. I also counted a 28 pitch, three batter, striking out of the side from one particularly hard thrower.

Overall, I wanted to express my appreciation to the PG organization for providing the opportunity for my son to be seen playing with an against good competition in a well organized manner. We'd recommend the events to all of the kids from his HS and club team programs.
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Three BaggerThree Bagger1,000+ posts
3rdgenerationnation, I agree with you about Perfect Game putting on great showcases and my son is now committed to a college because of a major league scout who saw him at a Perfect Game event. I like the setup and the competition my son faced. I think the two we have attended were well set up and everything promised. However, I'm glad someone else brought up the no walks and no HBP rules. I've noticed many of the more savvy pitchers just pitch inside, jamming hitters since there is no literally no penalty for hitting or walking a batter. I've watched ten games and almost all became strikeout- fests It seems and even the Perfect Game guy in the dugout commented that everytime a guy should have walked or is HBP he then strikes out. My own son was hit by a pitch twice in one at bat, then grounded out. The next showcase, he had a twelve pitch at bat where he walked twice and finally struck out. His game is extreme plate discipline and tremendous speed on the bases but this rule takes a lot of that away. Pitchers don't have to pitch from the strech as much, base runners don't get to display their wares as much and in a hitter like my son's case who was not taught to swing at every pitch he can reach and that all strikes are not equal it does not allow him to show what he is about. I don't feel you get to see hitters hit any mor by forcing them to swing at pitches they normally wouldn't swing at. If anything you would get more at bats a game because of more walks and HBP's even with the five batters per inning because you wouldn't have so many three and four batter innings with three strikeouts. Then you would see what catchers and pitchers can do with men on base. I watched a pitcher throwing 91 hit a guy in the side with an 0-2 count then he threw three more pitches in tight before he struck out the guy. That was not fair to that batter. He paid just as much as that pitcher. If an arbitrary rule makes guys change their style or gives pitching a distinct advantage then it is a mistake in my opinion. I don't want this to be misconstrued as taking away from the fine showcases that Perfect Game puts on and I would go back to one in a minute. I just wish they would look at this a little closer since it doesn't save time or help batters be seen in the best light.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
These are very good points. We have given much thought to the best way to handle walks and hit batters during showcase events. Not saying we have it right, but here are the issues involved.

1. Pitch Counts - we do not want to see any 40-50 pitch counts in an inning. We also don't want to pull a pitcher in the first inning he pitches in a showcase.

2. The last thing we want to see at a showcase is a hitter walk 3 times. All scouts need to see hitters swing the bat. While on one hand walks might be good, they do nothing for scouting purposes.

3. It is our thought that a hitter can show discipline and a good swing in these instances. We always note these things and make a special note if a hitter is rung up on what we think was a bad call by the umpire. We also know when a hitter has a 12-15 pitch ab.

4. Pitchers must only throw fastballs after they have thrown 4 balls or hit the batter. This becomes a big advantage to the hitter. They know what pitch is coming.

5. We probably should put a runner on and keep the hitter hitting after ball 4. Not sure why we quit doing that.

6. After 16 years we have never come up with anything better to showcase hitters and protect pitchers. All suggestions are welcome and we are always willing to change if there is a better way.

Thanks
3rdgenerationnation3rdgenerationnation100+ posts
I don't want to make too much of this aspect because it was a small part of the weekend and there were not a lot of pitchers that seemed able or willing to take advantage of it. My son did consider starting every batter off with a HBP but decided that since he and his teammates had to hit as well, it might not make him a lot of friends:-)

I understand that the games were mainly to evaluate the pitchers but there were a few kids that could have just as easily have thrown gunned bullpens. 100+ pitches over 4 innings and 14 batters does not seem to make a lot of sense in terms of getting the hitters work, or protecting the pitcher.

The way the teams were structured you had to be confident that a kid was going to be able to finish his X innings of work otherwise you'd have either too many, or not enough pitchers. As a result the 5 batter rule made sense to me. It should have limited the pitch counts, but again some pitchers seemed to disregard the count and the likelihood of hitting a batter. I'd have to look at their evaluations to figure out if they were hurting or helping themselves.

In any case, we've spent too much time on this when what I wanted to say was how first class the whole event was. As part of the AZ baseball community I was proud that visitors to the area had such great weather, great facilities and a great event to promote themselves to coaches and scouts.
Last edited by 3rdgenerationnation
CS Celebrity Status10+ posts
3rdgen....we too were at the showcase in Mesa and also would like to extend our thanks to PG for an outstanding event. Everyone was exceptionally nice and well organized. We were with the underclass group which seemed very competitive and there was some very very talented players. While youre right the running conditions were very good, there were really not that many sub-7 times....I did see some of the Uncommitted games and they looked very strong as well. Of course having the excellent weather doesnt hurt...
E equipman10+ posts
We went to a prospect camp at Central Mich and they had a similar walk/HBP rule. Except if a batter got a walk/HBP the count restarted at 2-0 and the pitcher could still throw any pitch. They would put a runner on first for the batter. If the batter walked again, he took his base. As it happened for my son, we had 2 runners on base and he walked. Runner was put on to load the bases. He then went to a 3-1 count and hit a grand slam. He was pretty happy to say the least. But that set seemed to work fine for all.
SD 12's Dad10+ posts
I also noticed the lack of sub 7's. I know in my son's case he slipped right after the start and only ran a 7.47. This surprised me with the seemingly good conditions. He was very disappointed because he has been running 6.9 - 7.1 at his high school workouts. Since he is mainly A RHP I told him that I don't expect the slip to hurt him that bad.

Which team was your son on Celebrity? Mine was on the Red team.
C craiger14Member
This is my son's second PG underclass showcase and this one wasn't quite as good as the July showcase in San Bernardino. While I do know that there were quite a bit more kids because of the Undecided Showcase, but the whole dodging foul balls thing was a constant nightmare. I am also SHOCKED that PG didn't have at least a table to sell drinks. At the San Bernardino showcase, they had a tent with a barbecue going and lots of drinks. As for the games themselves, these Showcases are mainly for the scouts/colleges to find pitchers. If your kid is throwing 77-79 and getting everyone out but on the other field is a kid hitting 94 but throwing 10-12 pitches per batter, who do you think the scouts are watching?94 MPH trumps all. I'm still wondering why this kid who was throwing 94 is still uncommitted. Maybe grades are scaring schools off? That's the bad thing about multiple fields. Oh, please don't say this sounds like sour apples. My son struck out 7 in 3 innings without reaching a 3 ball count. All in all though, it was a good showcase. Oh yea, my son was on the red also.
Last edited by craiger14
S sportsmomof210+ posts
craiger14,
You will need to get used to the foul ball thing if your son goes to ANY of the high profile scouting tournaments in the future. All of these venues have multiple games going at the same time on fields in close proximity to each other. AZ Fall Classics, WWBA in Marietta, Ft Myers, and Jupiter. It really is just part of the game. Some venues the fields are closer together than others, but the foul balls are just part of it.

I personally expected any of the scouts attending to be watching the Uncommitted games - regardless of the velocity of the pitcher. I'm sure they heard about anyone that they missed that really stood out.
3rdgenerationnation3rdgenerationnation100+ posts
I thought the level of play for the Undergraduates were very high. There were a number of pitchers that will be committed by this time next year and so will not be pitching in the Uncommitted event as Sr's.

As for what scouts or coaches saw at the event, I think that may be the wrong focus. The point is that any coach that is the least bit interested in your son can see his skills on video easily. Along with that, coaches can get a credible evaluation of his ability and projectability compared to thousands of other recruits from all around the country. Don't we want to make the recruitment process easier and less expensive for both recruits and coaches? Building a national database of prospects seems like it's a start in the right direction.
CS Celebrity Status10+ posts
Asking about scouts/recruiters certainly was not and is not a focus....more of a curiostiy. I agree that the opportunity to provide a vehicle for schools to effeciently and economically have access to the players is huge. Add to that an evaluation from a source that is as credible as PG is also huge.

3rdgen you seem knowledgeable and informed, what was your take on the underclass position players? My son's primary position is not as a pitcher....do you think the position players/hitters field was indicative of a quality group or were you expecting more?
Last edited by Celebrity Status
3rdgenerationnation3rdgenerationnation100+ posts
Celebrity:

First of all, welcome! I don't take issue with you or anyone else asking about who was in attendance. I am as curious as the next parent. However, I did want to emphasize that the PG format gives kids the chance to evaluate themselves realistically and market themselves in an efficient manner to schools that are likely to be interested. To some degree it gives them control over what can be a bewildering process.

For example, there are eight 09's from my son's HS team that will be playing college baseball at some level next year. Only two of them were at this event right in their backyard. One was on an official visit, but the other five chose not to attend because of the expense/value evaluation they made. All eight participated in the AZ Fall Classic. The evaluations five families made came down to something like, "there were 200+ coaches at the Fall Classic and it cost X. There will be some much smaller # of coaches at the PG event and it cost Y." In a way that is a reactive approach, hoping a coach that might be a good fit sees you based on a lot of them being there. If the right coach did see you at the Classic wouldn't it be good for him to have an expert opinion confirming you could play? If a coach from a good fit school didn't get to see you at the Classic, or get to see you do everything, wouldn't it be good for him to be able to see you and have an expert evaluation he could access at his convenience?
Last edited by 3rdgenerationnation
playfairplayfair500+ posts
PG, my son has attended several PG showcases and they have all been really well done. Actually, this year my son got his D-1 playing committment out of the PG National showcase.

The only adjustment I would make to the batting/pitching format is when a batter earns a walk let the batter stay in the box, but put a runner on and go to a 1-1 count. This way the batter gets to bat and the pitcher can feel the consequence of the walk. Same goes for the hit batter.

I think with that the pitchers will throw less for the guns and you will get a better picture of who the pitcher really is, how the batter really bats and some extra players will get to show off some base running skill.

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