PIAA ump

You should be able to ask, IMO, you should expect PU
to ask, yes even if partners in B or C.
I'd never consider not, if asked, and of course, if it wasnt' being abused.
I only do OBR where it say's, "if asked too, you'll ask".


9.02 No umpire can overturn etc. etc.

Rule 9.02(c) Comment: The manager or the catcher may request the plate umpire to ask his partner for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike. The manager may not complain that the umpire made an improper call, but only that he did not ask his partner for help. Field umpires must be alerted to the request from the plate umpire and quickly respond. Managers may not protest the call of a ball or strike on the pretense they are asking for information about a half swing.
Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing. Should the base umpire call the pitch a strike, the strike call shall prevail.

in NFHS the plate umpire can refuse to ask his base umpire, if he so chooses.


in OBR, the plate umpire must go the base umpire if asked.

what is the big deal. Is not the idea to get it right. check swings are called balls. a coach asks for help. is not the idea to get it right?

In HS you don't have to ask if you don't want to. I personally will ask if requested. I will not allow them to abuse the system. An example was the Japan catcher in the the LLWS. If a batter moved his bat he asked for an appeal. It may be a culture thing but it got really annoying.

As the BU give what you have. It makes no difference whether you are on the wing or in the middle, call it as you see it. It drives me crazy when some won't ask if the BU is in the middle. You can still make a judgement from that position. It may require more of a swing but that's OK.

Edited to add secomd paragraph

as stated before.......In NFHS rules a HS umpire does not have to honor a request for a checked swing appeal.....now to the application, I always ask........whats the worst thing that can happen....a called ball is called a strike....to me thats not a problem at all......

I will not say any NFHS umpire is wrong if he did not ask for help....there are situations that we cant all foresee, and I especially agree with MST'S example of the Japanese Catcher from the LLWS...after about the 9th time, I'd probably have told him no too.......

Now in OBR and OBR based leagues we have to go, the rule is clear........the operative word in the rule is "must"

Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
what is the big deal. Is not the idea to get it right. check swings are called balls. a coach asks for help. is not the idea to get it right?

Wellllllllllllllllllll I'd editorialize on this a bit but I think its better I stick to what I know and just recite the rule.

Thanks for your replies and I didn't know under NFHS rules they didn't have to go.

Now to sort of push the issue I can understand how being asked all the time would be a waste of time. I can see that being a reason to not honor the request.

But if the coach is not asking for it quite a bit and hasn't argued any other calls why not give it? To me this goes to having a good relationship with your partner (or respecting that your partner is another ump) and just back up what the plate ump says when asked.

I think if you do that you shut up a lot of coaches. We having nothing to say because we got our request and answer.

quote:

But if the coach is not asking for it quite a bit and hasn't argued any other calls why not give it?

I always do.....plain and simple.....like I stated before in the normal course of a game, be it NFHS or NCAA or some OBR summer league game, I will go for help on a checked swing......what is the worst thing that can happen, a strike added to the count?.....no problem in my book.

Now on your last point, if a HP umpire does not want my honest opinion, he had better not ask me.....if you do.... you get my best opinion, I will not agree with a call just because a HP umpire called it that way.....

quote:

To me this goes to having a good relationship with your partner (or respecting that your partner is another ump) and just back up what the plate ump says when asked.

ahhhh, already breaking my vow.

This is an incorrect impression, or should be. This has nothing to do with 'respecting' your partner....its about the right call.

I (as PU) don't ask my partner to 'back me up' on a checkswing appeal no matter what..Id rather him say the opposite...because that's another strike. Any PU who takes a 'reversal' personally is a fool.

In my pregame I always tell my partner, 'if I go to you for an appeal, dont be afraid to call a checkswing strike if thats what you have...if I leave any strikes out there, you police em up for me.' When Im BU, I do the same. Its about getting the call right.

The BU calls what he sees, no matter what the PU called, from either the wing or inside. Ive rung up Strike 3 on batters in playoff games from the inside on checkswings, despite the howls of "you cant see that from there!" and "you cant make that call!!"

Yes I can!

I agree. I always bring up the checked swing in pregame, whether I'm PU or BU. I want the BU to call what he sees, and expect me to do the same if I'm BU...
I have worked with several who asked that I back them up on the check swing (always the 1st time working w/them)and I say the same thing, like it or not....

i know i am a little late on this discussion (BUT) some of the more seasoned vets that i have called with would chew my rear for coming to them for a call on check swing when they were in B position.
I understand where everyone is coming from but can one really see a check swing from the B position?
How about a left handed batter when your in A

You absolutely have a look at the call even from the middle. While there was a time where it was considered bad form to go to the BU inside that is long past. From B if you see the whole length of the bat or any of the cup then you certainly have a swing. If you don't then call it a ball.
If you have guys that are giving you a fit for coming inside tom them then they haven't been to a good clinic in a long time. It has been taught to call what you have for at least a decade or more.
As far as being in A with a left handed batter, it is tradition not to ask but is becoming more accepted even there. If on the line and asked if you see any of face of the bat then call the strike. No bat/ no strike.
No matter where you are give your PU what you have. No secret signals, no go with what I say. If the PU asks give him an honest call. If you aren't sure then it's a ball.

Edited to add second paragraph.

quote:

Originally posted by Change Up:
but can one really see a check swing from the B position?

Yes, I can. and Yes I do.....

As related by MST, there was a time (long ago) that the accepted mechanic was to only agree with the call of the HPU. That has been long discredited. In all of the advanced clinics I attend the accepted practice is to give what you see when asked.

If I cant determine if it is a swing, I rule no swing....cant overide what i didnt see.........If I did see a swing....I ring it up.....