Pitch counts(revisited)

I can't believe that any coach would allow one of his pitchers to throw 158 pitches at any time in the season let along this early when it is so cold out. Any coach who would do that is an idiot and should be brought up on child endangerment charges. I know that it is not proper to talk to the coach during the game but if a coach is going this high in pitch counts, it would be improper for the parent not to say something to the coach.

Does anyone have any good stratagies for a pitcher who is at a high pitch count to get off of the mound. I am assuming that if the coach is unreasonable regarding pitch counts, it would not work to tell him that you no longer want to pitch due the pitch count. Would telling him that your arm is sore or throwing 3 or 4 pitches into the backstop do the trick or is there a better way? Any high school players out there have anything that they have tried that works well under these circumstances?

I heard about this and i thought the parents of this kid are out of they're minds. I would jump over the fence and pull the kid off the mound. If your talking about 80 degrees and your in kane county playing for the state title then MAYBE. But that coach and those parents had better worry about the future of that kid and stop focusing on beating one team in march. Geez, I mean that is child abuse. And these idiot high school coaches bad rap travel coaches all the time. He should not be allowed to coach another game or at least be suspened for 3 or 4. Something needs to be done. If the kid drank a beer or chewed tabacoo he'd be gone. It should work both ways. The kids should be on a strict pitch count that early in the season. I mean really what is on the line, beating Benet....I'm sure Benet's season is just shot now that they have 1 lose in three games. There season is over....No It is NOT. But that poor kid's arm is probably still hanging to the ground a week later. These are my opinions and I'm sure I'm not alone.......

Sweaty,
I heard about that also. Crazy what a coach will do for a win in late march. The one I was focusing on happened down here in the south. By the way if you dont want to check the link out the temp was in the low 30's (20's with wind chill) I'm sure it is just as cold up there.

Happens all the time and some of the papers even seem to glorify when a kid throws for a long time. Every time a kid pitches an extra inning game and goes all 9 or 12 or whatever the case might be they always bring up the time Dave Kingman went something like 12 or 14 innings, no pitch counts then plenty of pitches thrown there. This happens all the time fresh to varsity.

Sweaty and others,

I'm glad this abuse has been brought out on this forum for all to read. These HS coaches think that they rule their domain and everything that goes on within it. I think it is BS especially when you're dealing with players health and safety. Sweaty, you're so right when you say that these coaches are the first to criticize the travel gang when in reality most travel coaches are working towards helping the players future, while these few HS coaches are only thinking about today's game.

I'm especially sensitive about this subject as my son is in his 9th month post Tommy John surgery. I'm not blaming anyone for his injury, but I have witnessed, like many of you, pitchers being ridden like mules by their coaches. Believe me, it can happen to your son just as it happened to mine. Finally, I totally agree that just as the players are held responsible for their on/off field behavior, so must their coaches.

SI, Believe me, it has been freezing up here also.

i tossed 101 pitches my 1st game

Being a parent of two pitchers, you have to speak up for your kids. You also need to have the mentality that a pitcher cannot go to every showcase and every event that they get invited to in the winter. Take it slow to start the season too. The best excuse we use in our house if the arm is not ready is, "Coach, I have a sore back!" Seems to work, although we have never had to do that on the Varsity level.Our Coach really does an excellent job monitoring.

Two games now. First starter went 52 pitches. Second starter went 60. I was worried about the 60 pitch performance but that was the number we came up with based on conversations with our trainer. The first young man also had 60 but ended at 52 because it was the end of an inning. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THE ABUSE MENTIONED HERE.

Lots of examples of high school coaching "mopery" on this site; and, in this state.

A meaningless game in late March and the kid might be done for the year. Even if he's not, he'll pay for it down the road.

Those of you that are pitchers and are on this site, please monitor your own pitch counts for meaningless games. Tell the coach you're gassed...sore shoulder...anything.

Some coaches don't know any better. Many are given the job because the AD likes them and not necessarily the "most qualified" for the job.

When a coach starts doing things that affect a kids health/future, I'm a parent that is in his face.

I'll play the devil's advocate here. There was a time when kids picked up the baseball glove the day before tryouts and threw for the first time at tryouts.

Now kids who pitch are throwing almost all winter long so when they begin playing they may have already had bullpen sessions where they threw up to 80 pitches. Is there anything wrong with going out and making 80 pitches in a 2 hour time frame in a game as opposed to throwing 80 indoors in 40 minutes or less?

158 pitches crosses the line at any time of the year even mid-season, but is 80 too high of a count? Depends on who is pitching and how far along they are.

This is a great post, mostly because many pitchers these days dont take action on their own, they just listen to their coaches. Coaches that for some reason just dont understand the game of baseball and the careers of these pitchers at this stage.

In reply to fastball, granted that you are playing devil's advocate, i believe that it still is not right to be throwing that many pitches this early. I think everyone would agree that throwing 60-80 pitches indoors is much much different than throwing 60-80 pitches in an in-game situation and 20 degree weather. going 100%, more off-speed, and more stress on the arm.

Lastly, i wanted to introduce another aspect of this problem. Is it just me, or is it insane for a coach to start pitchers on 3 or maybe even 2 days rest. I think that along with the pitch counts, pitchers need to be aware of the rest they are getting.

FBD,

I agree with you to a point. However, throwing 80 pitches indoors is much different, IMO, than amping up and throwing with the adrenaline flowing when pitching in a real game, outdoors and in cold weather. Here is an example of what I witnessed yesterday. It is not exactly what we've been talking about but it kind of makes my point. My son was doing his pitching rehab protocol which called for 50-60 pitches at 75% effort and then 30 pitches, at 75%, to a live hitter. Well, as soon as he started throwing to the live batter, he was throwing too hard. He was supposed to be holding his velocity to around 63-67. His first pitch to the batter was 69 and the next pitch 72. I had to tell him to back off and he just pointed to his heart saying that "hey dad, I'm pumped". My point is simply that throwing a bullpen just isn't the same as facing live hitting in a game.

First off, I'd like to mention that all the coaches I have seen so far (6 games) have done a good job in not throwing the pitchers too long. I think the vast majority of coaches are professional in their approach and deserve the respect that goes with it. I'm a bit concerned about ripping on the HS Coaches in general and doubting their integrety in this way. I know there are some who have not respected the kids' health in the long term and of course this can't be allowed. I just believe that this is the small exception rather than the rule.

Again everyone needs to be dilgent and no one cares more about your son than you do. I'm just as concerned about the right fielder who has been standing out there in the cold wind who lets it fly once in the game to home or third....to me that kid is just as likely to get hurt.

Rosy, there is no doubt that when these kids get into a competitive (no pitcher ever wants to throw to a hitter at 75%) situation their nature will take over. Maybe it would be wise to refrain from the live hitters until he is a little further along. He isn't going to like it when they hit the ball. Sounds like he is movely forward nicely.