While pitching from the stretch in a high school summer tournament this weekend my son was admonished by a field umpire because his feet were too close together and it looked like he was in the windup. There's a minimum distance required between a pitcher's feet in the stretch position?
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While pitching from the stretch in a high school summer tournament this weekend my son was admonished by a field umpire because his feet were too close together and it looked like he was in the windup. There's a minimum distance required between a pitcher's feet in the stretch position?
Not really following what you are trying to say. The windup and the set (stretch) are totally different IMO and I always thought it was the hands not the feet that had to be in certain position.
While pitching from the stretch in a high school summer tournament this weekend my son was admonished by a field umpire because his feet were too close together and it looked like he was in the windup. There's a minimum distance required between a pitcher's feet in the stretch position?
Not really following what you are trying to say. The windup and the set (stretch) are totally different IMO and I always thought it was the hands not the feet that had to be in certain position.
I'm not surprised, because I don't follow the logic myself. Unfortunately my son, confused as well, didn't question the umpire or ask him to clarify. Though not completely certain, he thinks the umpire may be implying he was deceiving the runner in some fashion as a result of the way he positioned his feet.
To illustrate, his feet were a foot apart with the heel of the left foot (he's right-handed) perpendicular to the heel of the right foot on the rubber. He pretty much adopts this same set-up routinely and has for years without ever being reproached.
Official Rules: 8.00 The Pitcher
8.01
Legal pitching delivery. There are two legal pitching positions, the Windup Position and the Set Position, and either position may be used at any time.
Pitchers shall take signs from the catcher while standing on the rubber.
Rule 8.01 Comment: Pitchers may disengage the rubber after taking their signs but may not step quickly onto the rubber and pitch. This may be judged a quick pitch by the umpire. When the pitcher disengages the rubber, he must drop his hands to his sides.
Pitchers will not be allowed to disengage the rubber after taking each sign.
(a) The Windup Position. The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his pivot foot in contact with the pitchers plate and the other foot free. From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.
When a pitcher holds the ball with both hands in front of his body, with his pivot foot in contact with the pitchers plate and his other foot free, he will be considered in the Windup Position.
Rule 8.01(a) Comment: In the Windup Position, a pitcher is permitted to have his free foot on the rubber, in front of the rubber, behind the rubber or off the side of the rubber.
From the Windup Position, the pitcher may:
(1) deliver the ball to the batter, or
(2) step and throw to a base in an attempt to pick-off a runner, or
(3) disengage the rubber (if he does he must drop his hand to his sides).
In disengaging the rubber the pitcher must step off with his pivot foot and not his free foot first.
He may not go into a set or stretch positionif he does it is a balk.
(b) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the pitchers plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw to a base or step backward off the pitchers plate with his pivot foot. Before assuming Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary motion such as that known as the stretch. But if he so elects, he shall come to Set Position before delivering the ball to the batter. After assuming Set Position, any natural motion associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without alteration or interruption.
Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side; from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01(b) without interruption and in one continuous motion.
The pitcher, following his stretch, must (a) hold the ball in both hands in front of his body and (b) come to a complete stop. This must be enforced. Umpires should watch this closely. Pitchers are constantly attempting to beat the rule in their efforts to hold runners on bases and in cases where the pitcher fails to make a complete stop called for in the rules, the umpire should immediately call a Balk.
Rule 8.01(b) Comment: With no runners on base, the pitcher is not required to come to a complete stop when using the Set Position. If, however, in the umpires judgment, a pitcher delivers the ball in a deliberate effort to catch the batter off guard, this delivery shall be deemed a quick pitch, for which the penalty is a ball. See Rule 8.05(e) Comment.
(c) At any time during the pitchers preliminary movements and until his natural pitching motion commits him to the pitch, he may throw to any base provided he steps directly toward such base before making the throw.
Official Rules: 8.00 The Pitcher
8.01
From the Windup Position, the pitcher may:
(1) deliver the ball to the batter, or
(2) step and throw to a base in an attempt to pick-off a runner, or
BOF, I think your part in bold is the rules violation for the OP.
On a side note, I find the above statement interesting. Never seen a pitcher be able to step and throw towards a base from the windup position. I always assumed that would be a balk. Wonder how you would do that?
bbman: a) Maybe maybe not, if both feet are in front of the rubber, no rules violation, you would have to see it I think to really know.
b) Not sure either, I guess a lefty could do this to first as long as his foot did not break the plane of the rubber. One of our ump contributors will know this.
I'm sorry, but I still don't see the rules violation. Both feet were in front of the rubber (as indicated above), he came to a complete stop, and he threw to the plate. Help me understand why this is a rules violation. Not being argumentative, just trying to understand it.
I don't think it is a rules violation. If it happens again just have the coach ask what rule he is breaking? That will get the attention of most youth umpires. 
You say "HS Summer Tournament", so I'll assume FED rules -- not the OBR that was posted.
Both FED and NCAA have cracked down on the "hybrid stance" where the pitcher's pivot foot looks like it is in the wind up (it's more or less "across" or perpendicular to the rubber) while the free foot looks like it's in the set position (it's closer to the plate than the rubber (in FED) or the pivot foot (in NCAA)).
It's unclear to me if that's how your son was set up, or if the umpire just expanded the "no hybrid stance" rule to what he was seeing.
And, in OBR and NCAA it is legal to throw to a base from the wind-up position, as long as you haven't made any other motion to commit to the pitch. It's easy. Stand up. Face your monitor (home plate). Step 90* to your left (if your RH) and throw to "first". Don't raise your arms above your head; don't take a rocker step.
In FED, it's illegal to throw to a base from the wind-up.
It's unclear to me if that's how your son was set up, or if the umpire just expanded the "no hybrid stance" rule to what he was seeing.
I think you may have hit on it, as I subsequently discovered the umpiring crew was made up of local college players and not certified arbiters. Thanks for weighing-in.
To illustrate, his feet were a foot apart with the heel of the left foot (he's right-handed) perpendicular to the heel of the right foot on the rubber. He pretty much adopts this same set-up routinely and has for years without ever being reproached.
I think that BOF got it (see the bold in his post on rules).
