Pitching

monkeyboy,
Don't think you are naive at all.

Not sure I see harm in any kid pitching for their HS team (at any level) assuming the player is:

- Fit and has solid mechanics.

- Is not overused and gets appropriate rest between outings. NPA (Tom House) has great thoughts on this.. No more than 110-120 pitches in a 7 day period.

- Gets some prolonged time off from pitching sometime during the calendar year to rest his arm and work just on fitness.

I think HS baseball, at a levels, is a team sport and pitching well for your neighborhood HS is part of the joy of the game of baseball.

It is a game, and only a "micropercentage" of kids will ever make a significant living playing baseball. But every kid should be as injury free as possible and have fun and success with his peers.

And as parents we have the responsibility to keep them safe and teach them life lessons like how to work well with peers that you are competing with (teammates), plus how to communicate effectively with their boss (the coach).

Great idea to watch carefully to prevent a coach from injuring your kid by overuse and use of poor mechanics, bad idea to teach your kid to be arrogant and demanding to his boss, if it is not a safety issue.

Do ya'll agree, disagree, or have a different angle on this?

I'm not sure I see any harm in kids pitching for their "select" team.

As long as it doesn't screw up the HS school season.

Not sure why so many have begun to think that "select" ball is "what matters."

To me I guess it seems a two-fold issue:

1) Not pitching your arm out.
2) Being fresh for the big stage(Select, or Varsity depending).

Kind of two streams of thought. One placing an emphasis on Select and the other on Varsity(maybe because its a mystery for frosh parents).

Is there anecdotal evidence to back up the approach of resting kids in high school to "shine" in select or resting their Frosh year to "shine" on Varsity at a later date?

Wouldnt reps, with out just extremely overworking, really help kids regardless of goals?

And to some extent dont genetics play a large part moreso than if a kid was used a lot during the season? I know rest is important but if they are building arm strength should they really shy away in the middle of the season to wait until select or wait until a year down the road to get solid high school pitching reps?...i am fairly sure the frosh parents arent holding back kids from pitching on their select teams.

Again, not judging any of these folks in any way...just trying to understand the approach.

Again, do kid really tell coach, as a senior, that they dont want to pitch or dont want to pitch much or do they fake injuries or is there an understanding or does the coach give a #$@#$@ at all? Again, to me its for the team. monkeyboy = naive.

Ironhorse,
I agree with you. For well over 99% of kids, the joy of playing well with your HS peers is what matters, at all levels of HS ball.

Select ball is great training and can be rewarding too, but almost all kids who have individual and team HS success will always remember and appreciate it.

Originally posted by: monkey boy

quote:

or does the coach give a #$@#$@ at all?

I would say 87.6% of the coaches don't give a rats a** if their pitchers can pitch in the summer. They only care about the spring. Most coaches will pitch a kid till the kid hollers uncle and some never complain out of fear of never getting to pitch again. They will question the kids man hood if he says his arm is sore or hurting a little and call him all kinds of names in front of the team and tell him he has a freshman on jv that is ready to take his place.

Just my 2 cents.

My (lay-person/parent) opinion is parents should have NO say in any decisions made by a coach on the game/practice field...EVER.

A parents role lies in their player's health and well-being. After accepting a position on a team, the parents should teach and guide their son on how to function as a healthy, productive team player. This means showing up to games/practices available to play according to the coaches directions. If injured, etc., then player/parents takes care of health issues appropriately (shows up or doesn't according to injury/issue). I think its perfectly acceptable for players to communicate with the coaches, as long as they are not telling the coach where/how much to play them or how to coach. If kid is hurting, etc. to extent of needing to tell coach, he should do this. If the coach refuses or is unable to limit play and health is at risk, then player will not be made available to play for however long necessary. Additionally, if a parents feels their son's health is at risk on the field while under the direction of any coach, then i would question why they've allowed their kid on that team in the first place. (I'm, of course, not meaning to get into the subject of "accidents").

If a kid needs to limit play so he can be available to play on another team, then he's on too many teams, or is otherwise not managing his physical health appropriately. Coaches don't have the time or expertise to be medically assessing every player. This is NOT a coaching responsibility (again...NOT discussing safety-type measures here).

My ultimate goal is show my son that he can function productively on a team. This include taking proper care of HIMSELF physically and otherwise. Teaching the sport, etc. is the job of the coach.

quote:

Originally posted by The Beast:
Originally posted by: monkey boy

quote:

or does the coach give a #$@#$@ at all?

I would say 87.6% of the coaches don't give a rats a** if their pitchers can pitch in the summer. They only care about the spring. Most coaches will pitch a kid till the kid hollers uncle and some never complain out of fear of never getting to pitch again. They will question the kids man hood if he says his arm is sore or hurting a little and call him all kinds of names in front of the team and tell him he has a freshman on jv that is ready to take his place.

Just my 2 cents.

I strongly disagree with your opinion Beast. I've been playing, coaching, and parenting for over 40 years and have never seen a HS baseball coach react/behave as you have described in your post. I've seen many football coaches call out kids for not liking contact but I have never seen a baseball coach question a pitchers toughness because of a sore arm, certainly not a HS baseball coach.

I have seen it in every sport I have been around as a parent and as an official. Most coaches priority is to win come hell or high water. A kids future or safety is secondary. it is a what have you done for me culture that is just as prevelant in coaching as it is any where else. What players and parents have to understand is you have to look out for your kids health and future because no one else will do that for you.

Well Nuke it happens. Trust me. Seen it and heard about it.

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse: Not sure why so many have begun to think that "select" ball is "what matters."

Because my son's select coaches (Mustangs, then the Knights) were much more interested & instrumental in helping my son attain the goal of playing college baseball. They were much more enthusiastic and cooperative when it came time for reference letters and phone calls. My son's HS coach (a former SWC college player himself) had little interest in assisting my son in this pursuit.

The problem is two fold. Sure, some coaches are in the wrong at times but let's not lump all coaches as villains because of a few bad apples. Whatever happened to kids/players being able to speak for themselves? Too much parents speaking for kids, I see too many young adults that can't speak.

quote:

Originally posted by The Beast:
Well Nuke it happens. Trust me. Seen it and heard about it.

So you have seen it and heard it, and as a result extrapolated those experiences to conclude 87.6% of the HS coaches don't care about the kids. And, you don't see the flaw in that logic?

I've seen and heard of criminals, but that doesn't mean 87.6% of all people are criminals.

It's something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's the parents belief that most HS coaches are idiots (and acting according to that belief) that drive most good HS coaches from the game.

If they were half as ready to build up the coach to their sons as tear them down, more of the "good ones" may stick around.

Iron you could swap the word parents and coaches and you would have the same thing.

I agree most parents parents are idiots when it comes to their kids and sports; but I would say the samething when it comes to coaches and their players.

"I have seen it in every sport I have been around as a parent and as an official. Most coaches priority is to win come hell or high water. A kids future or safety is secondary. it is a what have you done for me culture that is just as prevelant in coaching as it is any where else. What players and parents have to understand is you have to look out for your kids health and future because no one else will do that for you.

Posts: 168 | Location: North Texas | Registered: February 29, 2008"
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Luckily, I've not ever come in contact with a coach such as the ones described above.

I have seen many successful coaches repeatedly utilizing every tool in their power in efforts to secure a successful outcome. I figure that the reason they do this is because it's their job.

Successful coaches have winning seasons. Winning seasons require a team to win some games. Winning games requires appropriately teaching the sport and managing the play with the resources at hand.

It is NOT a coaches job to care for the personal health and well-being of any player. It's been stated that each player must care for themselves. It is true... but NOT because the coaches don't care, or don't want to. It's true because a coach CANNOT DO THIS FOR ANY PLAYER, not even if he wanted to. It's just not in his power. A coaches'"caring" includes the safety/integrity of the game and it's players. This is inherently built-in as a requirement of successful coaches though.

Responsibilities on health,etc. falls on parents (teaching their kid). It's not a fun one but is vital to be successful in sports.