Pitching Mechanics part 2

Your post leg kick is not happening. Your post leg should come up and then come around to square up. This will allow you to get more power abd realease out front. Your chest should be out over your plant leg when you release.

When you say post leg, is that my right leg?

quote:

Originally posted by ro1249:
When you say post leg, is that my right leg?

Yes the post leg should come up. (Leg kick) Your post ia dragging, Here is a clip of my son when he was 17.

http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/greentw/?action...urrent=WorkoutTJ.flv

The high post leg kick is one style. But not the only one.

The important thing is that good hip rotation is obtained, and that the post leg come around. This can occur without the post leg foot going up high.

Kicking the post leg foot up high can make it more difficult to get maximum power in the hip rotation.

It doesn't have to be a high leg kick but he is dragging and impeding his hip rotation.
I n my son's video you can clearly see the hips are rotated before the leg leaves the ground.
There are a couple other things I prefer that he does in the video. He starts crouching which I prefer he is more tall with chin down and butt slightly extending back while keeping his head over center of gravity.

What other tips do you guys have? Also I want to build a wooden mound with my dad. Any tips on how to do that?

Do you have any game video ?

The mound is a matter of having correct measurements and getting someone to build it out of plywood. There may be someone here who has measurements.

I personally don't like your arm action. When you reach back, you get fully extended, and your glove arm is doing the same thing.

You will find your velocity and control will both improve if you keep some flex in your elbow. When you break your hands from your kick, drop your hand in a "downward L", with the ball about hip/rear high. Then flip up to the "upward L" without ever reaching completely straight backward. Then let your arm whip more as you rotate forward.

Many coaches believe your glove arm should move "equal and opposite" to your throwing arm, so I would also suggest you not reach out completely straight with your glove. Keep some flex in your left arm, too.

Being more compact in the rotation phase of your delivery will also increase your explosiveness out of your hip turn. Then you can channel that explosiveness into your extension at and through release -- cracking the whip.

You appear to be breaking your hands a little early. This is causing you to have a pause in the delivery. Your throwing hand should arrive at the, "upward L" as described above, at the same time as you plant your front foot. Also, you are landing soft, and staying soft. Your plant leg should firm up, or straighten as your upper body moves forward at release.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
When you break your hands from your kick, drop your hand in a "downward L", with the ball about hip/rear high. Then flip up to the "upward L" without ever reaching completely straight backward. Then let your arm whip more as you rotate forward.

Please don't follow this advice.

Your arm action is fine.

Hey Pain welcome back.

I actually agree with you on this.

Both of these pitchers are capable of using thier lower halves much, much better.

More seperation is needed in both if they wish to attain what they are capable of "stuff" wise.

Painguy,

We can agree to disagree, I guess, but I have seen kids who use that arm action end up with soreness in the stress points (shoulder and elbow), in addition to losing both velocity and spot control. The elbow flex is very important to allowing stress to disburse on release and follow through. It also helps the pitcher both repeat his release location, and keep his hand in a position where the fingertips can control location while also adding velocity.

Based on discussions I've had with former pros and pro coaches, I would say you are in a decided minority. Admittedly that doesn't necesssarily make you wrong, but you may need to explain yourself more.

I guess I should feel honored that you returned from a five-month, self-imposed hiatus to weigh in opposite me on this, but unlike others who may have led you to stay away, I'll be happy to discuss this with you without the "poison pen" approach.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
We can agree to disagree, I guess, but I have seen kids who use that arm action end up with soreness in the stress points (shoulder and elbow), in addition to losing both velocity and spot control.

ro1249 is a long-armer with an arm action that is pretty much identical to Roy Oswalt's (which I happen to like). I don't think there's nothing necessarily wrong with that arm action if done properly.

My biggest issue is that I'm not a big fan of the Inverted L because...

1. It's not what you see in the arm action of guys like Maddux, Clemens, Johnson, etc.

2. You do see it in the arm action of guys like Chris Carpenter and BJ Ryan, both of whom have had arm problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
The elbow flex is very important to allowing stress to disburse on release and follow through. It also helps the pitcher both repeat his release location, and keep his hand in a position where the fingertips can control location while also adding velocity.

I don't see why a long-armer couldn't do any of this.

The biggest concerns I have heard about long-armers are about a lack of deception.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Based on discussions I've had with former pros and pro coaches, I would say you are in a decided minority. Admittedly that doesn't necesssarily make you wrong, but you may need to explain yourself more.

About what, exactly? The Inverted L?

One thing I have learned over the years of being around pro scouts and players, they all have their views and they do differ.
I have video of my son receiving lessons from the former head P scout with the Jays. He empatically was against rapping back with the lift leg knee. My son did that naturally and I know some guys push that approach. My son's college coach had him doing it and for all I know he may be doing it now.
All I know is he is 21 and injury free and si more of an offspeed pitcher. He has been over pitched, CBs since 10 yo old and done all the things that people perceive as not proper on this site. Some will say you are just lucky but I say his motion was the reason along with his work ethic.
I am not a believer in the exploding hip or jumping off the rubber or not pausing at the moment before going forward.
I am a strong believer in the power generated just before realease out front and the leverage created by the stabalized lower body and the leg kick. My son isn't a power pitcher and I don't think that is his game. One day he throws quite hard and others he cruises at 82-83. He has blown his FB past some of the best hitters including guys who have been in the minors for 3 years. You just don't know what is comming next.

I knew an Aussi who was in the minors here who threw like that. He was a great pitcher but too much of a playboy. Jays paid him 500 K and that was like 2 mil today. They wasted their money on a beach bum. he had a beautiful arm though.
Carpenter rehabed here a few times. He was injured a lot but not sure why.

bhd

quote:

My son isn't a power pitcher and I don't think that is his game.

Maybe not, but he has more in the tank.... it has nothing to do with leaping off the mound either. If your interested let me know.

TPG

quote:

The biggest concerns I have heard about long-armers are about a lack of deception.

Chris, I like the fact that you study the game with passion.

Can you explain why a "long-armer" would lack deception. IMO deception embodies many more variables.

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:
TPG

quote:

The biggest concerns I have heard about long-armers are about a lack of deception.

Chris, I like the fact that you study the game with passion.

Can you explain why a "long-armer" would lack deception. IMO deception embodies many more variables.

I agree that there are multiple elements to deception.

The concern as I understand it is that long-armers give hitters a better sense of where the ball is during the arm swing and when it will be released.

deemax,
You mean you think Jared Weaver might be a little bit deceptive?

It is easier to hide the ball sometimes from more of a short arm type delivery but I agree that there's a whole lot more involved. Let's see...Juan Marichal,etc., etc.

As far as the clip he just looks a bit too linear and as a result isn't using his lower body. There's more than one way of getting effective lower body involvement, but in this case he just looks too linear.

quote:

deemax,
You mean you think Jared Weaver might be a little bit deceptive?

I know my brother faced him in college, and he punched out about 20 vs. UCLA.

We faced his older brother Jeff in college twice, to the tune of 39 punch outs...

deemax,
The wallpaper on my screen looks almost identical to the upper picture other than a several inch height difference. Not surprising as my son's early on pitching instructor was their youth coach.

Painguy,

I'm wondering if we're talking past each other through a misunderstanding of terminology. Because although you don't like my terms, you cite as good examples pitchers who do what I'm talking about.

To me, Clemens is a prime example of a "down L/up L" guy, very compact yet powerful with spot control. Though he was not, early in his career; he changed his mechanics after some early arm trouble.

Maddux is more of a dart thrower. His arm on first appearance takes a circular path, but you can see that he does keep his elbow flexed, not fully extended, so that his hand (fingertips) can direct the ball at release.

Johnson is just Johnson -- started out his career extremely wild, has had all sorts of arm and back trouble but keeps coming back. A very hard one to emulate unless you're a 6'10" lefty.

Carpenter -- working from memory, I don't have a clip -- uses a straight-arm drop, if I recall correctly. Oswald uses a longer arm action but his arm has looseness/whip in the delivery that is absent with the boy in the clip above. Our boy is relying on the inside front of his shoulder to pull his arm around, which will likely cause strain in time, plus he is likely to loose the ball into the right-hand batter's box as he tires during his outings.

Ryan's injuries I would attribute more to his closed delivery and reliance upon the slider as his primary pitch. The slider has always had a rep for taking the hardest toll on the elbow.